How to broach the "please propose" thing as a late 30s woman

[wonderingwonderingwondering]

37F, in a relationship for 2.5 years with my partner. We live together, co-parent a lovely doggy, are very well suited in terms of our personalities, he's the most loving partner i've ever had. We got together during the pandemic - lived in different cities but I moved to his within 6 months and we moved in together a few months later.

A little over a year into our relationship, I got to wondering about how the relationship was going to progress. We had never had the marriage - babies conversation until then; frankly I was longterm single when I met him and had accepted my fate, didn't think these things would ever happen. Suddenly I was in love, very happy and realised I wanted to settle down and start to build my family. We've had that conversation about half a dozen times over the last year and a half and every time I raise these things I feel my partnership shut down, get annoyed, or tell me "we've spoken about this already / we have a plan".

A few months ago he started a much higher paying job, he told me he wanted to prepare for us potentially trying for a child and being able to provide well. Then, last November we decided to start trying. It's obviously only been a few months and I don't know what the journey is going to look like for us, but I've started to feel an immense urge to be married and be his wife. The "boyfriend / girlfriend" tag seems so immature and casual in contrast to what we have as a couple: he is my life partner and he's my whole life and he's told me the same about me.

Marriage doesn't seem to be a priority to him. Another important bit of context is that there was an unexpected and very sudden death in his family around this same time, which probably pushed us into starting TTC. I made some half-jokes in the lead up to Christmas about a proposal, which he addressed by saying, "it absolutely is on my mind, but now isn't the time." I understand that, at least practically. But especially as we get deeply entrenched into this TTC process - I'm beginning to get deeply impatient and wonder, "well when is?"

I want to be married. I want the status of husband and wife, I want the legal partnership, I want the protection and commitment of it. Financially we are not far apart; I have a lot of savings and investments, while he owns the house that we live in. We can afford to get married, we can afford to build our family. I'm struggling with straddling the sensitivity towards his bereavement with my own strong desire to be married to him and the frustration of feeling like this will never be a priority to him.

To make matters worse; we are surrounded by married couples with young children. A friend of mine has just gotten engaged after 6 months together; there are few childless and non married folks around me. I just don't understand his delay with this, especially if our feelings about each other are mutual.

Does anyone have any advice?

Propose to him?

“Our child will have my surname. If we’re not married it will be my current name. If we are married it can be double-barrelled/ your name (if you plan on taking it)”

Holt the baby plans, if do get pregnant surely that push the date further back or he'll feel no need as you are settled with a family. Tell him once you are married everything else can progress.

every time I raise these things I feel my partnership shut down, get annoyed, or tell me "we've spoken about this already / we have a plan".
Have you spoken about it? What's the plan, if there is no date set?

Personally I wouldn't be trying for a baby with someone who refused to have a serious discussion with me and treated me as if trying to have a serious discussion was an annoying foible of mine. That's not a sgn of respect or equal communication.

If I was set on marriage, I'd be asking "Tell me your reasons for not marrying" and if he had none I'd be off, romance or not. Is it the pressure of your age / fertility that is making you less firm?

Propose to him. Then you'll know where you stand and can decide whether or not you wish to shoulder the practical and financial burden of raising his child with no security at all. And your dignity will be intact because you'll be being proactive about your life not just shaping it around what he wants.

Why are you giving him all the power? You moved to his city - presumably having to change jobs, you started TTC even though it sounds like you really want to get married first. I wouldn’t TTC unless you are happy to cohabit without marriage or raise any child as a single parent. Having said that, you haven’t been together that long, it’s your age that adds to the pressure - if you were late 20s it wouldn’t be an issue.

Do you want the baby more or the marriage? I would worry about asking to much of him at once, particularly if he has been grieving. Maybe have a conversation but keep it light. I think if I was late 30’s I would be glad I was happy and focusing on babies.

I’d say ask him. If your desire is to be married then ask him and you will then know the score.

“He’s my whole life” - not very healthy that.

Does he own his own home/property? I ask this as some people don't want to marry because they fear they will lose half if they ever divorce.

Don't factor his bereavement into this.

"it absolutely is on my mind, but now isn't the time."

That is the most ridiculous statement . You are trying for a BABY FFS! If he's not ready to get married, then he shouldn't be ready for that either.

I've seen these stories a number rof times before. There's always an excuse. It's always next year, or when they'll get a better job, a bigger promotion, when repairs on the house are finished. Then the woman gets pregnant and she can then forget being married. I know of a situation in real life where he did marry the mother of his children, but I think that's an exception rather than the rule in these situations.

It's hard to think of your partner in this way, but I'm afraid some men really do think 'Why buy the cow when I'm getting the milk for free?'. At the moment, he has the milk on tap, doesn't he? He's even going to have children with you without having to marry you and risk those higher earnings he's just got himself. I'm sorry OP, I think he knows very well what he's doing here.

It's a real downer when men deflate their women by saying 'it's just a piece of paper'. I suspect the real reason men don't want to get married a lot of times is because some of them are fussier as to who they are actually going to call their wife than they are about who ends up being the mother of their children.

If you have children with him, be prepared that he'll never marry you. Some people just don't care about marriage, fair enough, but I'd be more concerned about what his impressions will be of you if you agree to have his children without being married first. Some men know they're taking the piss OP, and they think even less of their women when they've managed to pull this shit off successfully.

“A few months ago he started a much higher paying job, he told me he wanted to prepare for us potentially trying for a child and being able to provide well.”

Is the plan for you to stop working?

If so, unless you can finance a child 100% (CMS are useless), and support yourself through retirement, you are putting yourself in a very precarious position.

Has he agreed his higher wages will top up your pension contributions whilst you’re not working in order to raise your child?

I would start the conversation by asking exactly what the details of the ‘plan’ are, and clarifying that you are unwilling to become pregnant without being married.
(I would require a date booked before having unprotected sex, a registry office is fine.)

If you’re uncomfortable raising this with him whilst he is grieving, you should be uncomfortable conceiving a child with him during that time too- many conversations should be had before an innocent child is dumped into a relationship

Tough one. I have been there and totally understand why you want what you want. My advice would be complete honesty. Find some time where he can't easily brush you off or change the subject. Maybe a long walk with doggo. Tell him everything you've said here and see what the response is. Also, have a good long think about what you want. If it's child, it's possible (and I'm told sometimes easier) on your own.

Thanks for all of the responses. It helps to just get all of this down on paper.

I trust this man implicitly, and we have a great relationship where I always feel like we are our own little team. Which makes this even harder: I can't seem to get him to understand why I suddenly feel urgent about all of these things; and in turn I don't get why the obvious next step to him is not marriage. It's eroding my self of safety in the relationship. I think a big issue is I feel like I'm asking for a lot: baby, marriage, new house together as I've got a lot of savings and despite paying rent etc, don't feel as though we are living in OUR home together.

He's agreed he wants all of this with me, the last time the conversation came up he agreed we should start TTC; and when I bring up the general topic of timeframes for engagement etc he gets annoyed, says these things take time and he doesn't want to feel like he is being "forced" to do something that he already wants to do. I don't know where to go in the conversation from there, I guess I should he asking what's the next step? Is he going to go ring shopping? Are wr talking 3 months, 6 months, 9 months? I just feel so trapped and hopeless in the discussion.

I don't want to propose to him. I don't want to have that hanging over me for the rest of my life, that I had to ask him and not feeling as if he wanted to marry me enough to ask me. And I'm not willing to stop TTC given my age and the reduced chance I already have of conceiving.

he's my whole life and he's told me the same about me.

What he's told you and what is actually true are two completely different things. If you were his whole life then he'd want to marry you.

Having someone as your whole life sounds deeply unhealthy anyway OP, and my advice would be to not make him this.

I'd also stop TTC until this issue has been sorted. The fact that he gets annoyed when you bring it up is a bit of an alarm bell considering he supposedly views you as his whole life. On the other hand you also say you've brought it up a few times over the last 18 months - that might be too much.

You say he's shut you down with "we have a plan" - what exactly is that plan?

I wouldn't have children with him without marriage, especially if you're going to take time off work and hand over your financial wellbeing to him. Have you discussed the financial arrangements for when you're at home with a baby?

What are your plans for long term financial freedom after you've had a baby in case your relationship ends for some reason?

Thing is, you do want marriage more than him by the sound of it, and for good reasons. So propose. No need to have it hanging over you if he accepts.

@EarthSight has worded my thoughts beautifully. Sorry OP.

He says "we have a plan". Looks like it's his plan, not yours. If your plan is to get married, ask him, he can either say yes or no - take a 'not yet' as a 'no', if he's not feeling it enough to marry after a couple of years, it's doubtful he ever will. Then you know where you stand.
It might be time to move on, certainly not a time ttc. How involved was he with the decision to ttc? Was he all in with the idea? Did you discuss future roles and how you'd be sharing the parental obligations, or is he just going to leave all the rearing to you and have you pay for it all too? Your earnings and your savings could take a big hit and he could leave you high and dry if you are not married.

It sounds overall like he has been passively going along with everything rather than being especially keen. He's not had to put any effort in so far whereas you have changed your life for him, and made him your world (as another poster pointed out, not healthy, you need to have your own things in life going on).
Have a think about how his efforts have been throughout your relationship, has it been one-sided?

It doesn’t sound like he has a plan at all

Is it a dealbreaker if you never get married? Stop all this ttc and tell him you want to be married by the end of the year; let’s sort out a date

sorry OP but this is a tale as old as time at least on MN

he says he wants to marry you but when you start to get into the detail of when all of a sudden you’re ‘pressurising him’

he says you should try for a baby together & then you’ll get married after that - but then funnily enough that doesn’t happen as there are other priorities and ‘look we’ve got a kid together isn’t that enough to show I love you’?

he knows damn well marriage isn’t ‘just a piece of paper’ because if he saw it as just an unimportant little piece of paper he’d marry you to make you happy but he won’t - because it’s a legal contract and he knows that

stop giving him so much power over your life

If you can't even have a conversation without him getting pissy then I would rethink having a baby with him

What happens when you wanna chat about childcare stuff. Will he shut down or brush off then?

Don't make life changing decisions with someone who you cannot communicate with, who can only make decisions on their terms.

What decade are we living in?!? Propose to him

You don't want to stop TTC and he does not want to marry you, whatever he says. Men who want to marry women, do so and there's no messing about.
So I'm not sure what you want to get from posting.

He wants a child and you want to get married. I have a feeling only one of you will get what they want, and it won't be you OP.

Just tell him you want to get married. All this waiting for him to propose as a full grown woman. It’s really depressing that we still live in this level of infantilised patriarchy tbh 🙄

Please tell me you're not paying rent to your boyfriend...?
I'd be jointly responsible for a mortgage, or jointly responsible for the rent but I'd never pay someone's mortgage with my "rent".

If you are indeed paying him rent, I'd stop that asap. I'd cover my expenses only (part of bills, food, etc).
Then I'd get my own place with the savings. Rent that out or start living Together Apart.
Then TTC.

Or you get married guys.

Anything else is madness.

@YRGAM Did you read any of her post?? What material would it difference would it make if she just said the words 'will you marry me' when he already knows she wants to marry him???? She's already made herself clear.

And your take away from her post was was questioning what decade she's living in???