How to broach the "please propose" thing as a late 30s woman

[wonderingwonderingwondering]

37F, in a relationship for 2.5 years with my partner. We live together, co-parent a lovely doggy, are very well suited in terms of our personalities, he's the most loving partner i've ever had. We got together during the pandemic - lived in different cities but I moved to his within 6 months and we moved in together a few months later.

A little over a year into our relationship, I got to wondering about how the relationship was going to progress. We had never had the marriage - babies conversation until then; frankly I was longterm single when I met him and had accepted my fate, didn't think these things would ever happen. Suddenly I was in love, very happy and realised I wanted to settle down and start to build my family. We've had that conversation about half a dozen times over the last year and a half and every time I raise these things I feel my partnership shut down, get annoyed, or tell me "we've spoken about this already / we have a plan".

A few months ago he started a much higher paying job, he told me he wanted to prepare for us potentially trying for a child and being able to provide well. Then, last November we decided to start trying. It's obviously only been a few months and I don't know what the journey is going to look like for us, but I've started to feel an immense urge to be married and be his wife. The "boyfriend / girlfriend" tag seems so immature and casual in contrast to what we have as a couple: he is my life partner and he's my whole life and he's told me the same about me.

Marriage doesn't seem to be a priority to him. Another important bit of context is that there was an unexpected and very sudden death in his family around this same time, which probably pushed us into starting TTC. I made some half-jokes in the lead up to Christmas about a proposal, which he addressed by saying, "it absolutely is on my mind, but now isn't the time." I understand that, at least practically. But especially as we get deeply entrenched into this TTC process - I'm beginning to get deeply impatient and wonder, "well when is?"

I want to be married. I want the status of husband and wife, I want the legal partnership, I want the protection and commitment of it. Financially we are not far apart; I have a lot of savings and investments, while he owns the house that we live in. We can afford to get married, we can afford to build our family. I'm struggling with straddling the sensitivity towards his bereavement with my own strong desire to be married to him and the frustration of feeling like this will never be a priority to him.

To make matters worse; we are surrounded by married couples with young children. A friend of mine has just gotten engaged after 6 months together; there are few childless and non married folks around me. I just don't understand his delay with this, especially if our feelings about each other are mutual.

Does anyone have any advice?

Do you feel like he's your "last chance saloon" and your painting a particular narrative about this man?

Asset wise what’s the percentage each of you has? You may have a lot of savings but is it equal to the amount of equity in his house.

@PaleGreenFrontDoor has already articulated my thoughts.

This is well said. OP, I would read this carefully as the distinction between wife and mother of his child is an important one.

Being a team is you both having the same plan. Working towards the same goals. He's got his goals and just pushes you towards them. That's why your goals and desires of marriage, owning a joint home are not priorities for him. In fact your hopes/dreams/goals that he doesn't share are an inconvenience- that's why he gets irritated when you bring up engagement.

He won't marry you. Unless you stop ttc, stop adapting your whole life to suit his and me firm about what you want.

The real test of whether a man is husband material or not is how seriously and importantly he treats the things that matter to you. And you'll find when you have a child, he'll expect you to do the bulk of the rearing and compromising - because he knows you're trapped. And that you won't advocate for yourself. Atm he has all the power and this will only worsen without the protection of marriage.

If you want marriage, tell him it's the only way he'll be getting a child. Are you on the deed of the house at least? Does he have a will that includes you? In fact has he planned for YOUR future at all or just his child? If he isn't considering your needs and financial security, he just sees you as a breeder.

Please don't have a baby with this man when you can't even get him to marry you. It will only get harder.

Are you paying him rent to live in his mortgaged house? Did I read that right?
If so, that is a massively precarious position you have got yourself in. You are effectively paying his mortgage with no security whatsoever!!!
Trust me I know what I'm talking about. With the father of my children 25 years and still no marriage security.
Take your rose tinted glasses of OP, he doesn't want to get married and I would bet he will up the ante on the gaslighting you about " one day" .
Seriously think about who has put the effort into your relationship and is the power balance equal? Because anything other than equal, be it decision making, house ownership, will become a massive problem for YOU when you have a child .

If he wanted to marry you he would, its that simple, he doesn't want to

Propose to him OP and then his response will likely inform you on whether even TTC is a good idea... If he accepts, then great! If he doesn't then it'll at least start the conversation and you can weigh up whether you'll ever marry this man.

I'll be honest though, you need to prepare yourself for rejection here, just in case - I'm not as convinced he's as keen as you are based on your post.

I find the “propose to him” comments immensely frustrating. This isn’t about a Disney proposal. OP has already made it clear that she wants to marry him and he has made it just as clear that he doesn’t want to marry her. A Disney style proposal isn’t going to change that.

OP, frankly I would not be putting up with the utter crap. It’s not the right time to marry but it is the right time to TTC? This makes absolutely no sense in my head whatsoever.

He gets angry at you when you bring this up?? Yeah, he really doesn't want to marry you OP. You've got massive rose tinted glasses on with this man who is clearly lying to you. His words in no way match his actions and it's actions that count.

"Don't make life changing decisions with someone who you cannot communicate with, who can only make decisions on their terms".

And definitely this

I completely agree with this. If he has shown reluctance to get married, what good will a proposal do?

He'd either feel pressured into saying "yes" to something he doesn't really want in his heart of hearts, or he'll crush the OP by saying "no".

Romantic "Disney"'proposals are for when the person being proposed to has unequivocally let you know that they are wanting to get married, NOT to try and force the issue when someone isn't keen.... and only then when you've both discussed what your shared life and attitude to marriage together first.

You need to have a full and frank discussion with him first. If you feel unable to do this, that needs to be overcome before you consider marriage.

He gets angry when the OP tries to raise this and some posters are still saying "propose"... This is a good reminder that some of the advice people give on here is utter shite.

he knows damn well marriage isn’t ‘just a piece of paper’ because if he saw it as just an unimportant little piece of paper he’d marry you to make you happy but he won’t - because it’s a legal contract and he knows that

^
This with bells on!

I want to be married. I want the status of husband and wife, I want the legal partnership, I want the protection and commitment of it.

use these words. And then the next words will be "and i want this before we TTC" and mean it.

But, meh, it is the 21st century. I got married in the 20th century and i did the "proposing" (more - "let's get married?" "OK then, when?"). It isn't a "thing hanging over your head" it is a sensible decision when you are going to be taking at least some time off work. What is your plan? how much do you want a baby? how does it all look in your head? in his head? who will do the cleaning and shopping? nanny? au pair? SAHM? SAHD? mixture of all? While you are off having a baby is he going to step up in terms of family expenses and your pension? How about your assets? will you go into this with your own savings/investments and him owning the house? or will you split them evenly?

It isn't impossible if you trust him and you're not married. But you "trust him implicitly". Sorry to say: famous last words.

How do you split housing costs? Are you contributing to the mortgage? What is your own career like?

I’d be very hesitant to risk throwing a hand grenade baby into my own career with a man who is not prepared to get married to give me security.

You say you feel like you’re ‘asking for a lot’, in regards to babies and a home together. I think maybe you need to reframe this. He should be feeling lucky and honoured that he has the chance to do this with you.
I don’t know why it is that there’s this view that women are asking men to make some big sacrifice by marrying them or having children with them when women are the ones making whole humans.
If he wants children with you really getting married is the least he can do. You deserve the security, and he should really understand that.

You’ve swallowed a lot of misogyny that’s clouding your judgment. You seem to think you’re the only one whose fertility is affected by ageing - if he’s your age, the poor quality of his ageing sperm is also a factor - and that men are somehow losing something if they marry so you need to be able to publicly demonstrate he definitely wanted this. You clearly think he’s the person in the position of power here, not that you’re equals.

out of all of my female friends, none of us proposed. But none of us received a surprise proposal either. Every couple I know talked it over and worked out why and when it was important and there was give and take around some things. Some couples still valued a traditional proposal after that, but it was made in the context of them already having agreed on the specifics of marriage.

You need to know if this is a deal-breaker for you, and if so you need to have a calm discussion where you don’t start from a disempowered position of imagining you’re begging him to bestow a mighty favour on you. Neither of you needs to get down on one knee. You’re equals who love each other and it’s time for a discussion about marriage on that basis and no other.

Another one here who thinks you have rose tinted glasses on. As a pp said, you trusting this man implicitly is famous last words. Search the threads on here, your story is one of many and almost none of them ever got married. If marriage before kids is what you want, I dont think this is the man for you, sorry op

This.

People do what they want to do. When they say they want to do a thing and then they don't do it, it's because that thing is a pain in the arse to them: 'I want to go to the gym more' (and then never goes); 'I want to eat more healthily' (and then bites into the cake); 'I want to start getting up early' (and then presses the snooze button)

You say you're a brilliant team, but you're seeing this most important of team goals from a completely different perspective. You're saying 'Yay! It's so exciting, let's do it!', and he's saying 'Oh, yeah, I'll do it later, stop hassling me, I've got better things to do.'

Doesn't his teenage-boy procrastinating turn you off? You might as well be asking him to tidy his room.

What's the plan he says you have? Can you be specific about what that is for us, @wonderingwonderingwondering ? Because if your amazing and perfect team of 2 has a plan, and you can't even tell us what it is, you're not an amazing team at all: he's your boss. And you're allowing him to be.

I’m sorry OP, but I think you’re being very foolish. At least go into this with your eyes wide open, he could kick you out tomorrow if he wanted, do you have a plan in case this ever happened? Who will take the career hit? Don’t facilitate his just because he earns more, when you’re not even married, your career will be even more important. Don’t give the baby his name, you can change it later if you do get married.

Know what you’re getting into and prepare for the worst case rather than blindly trusting him to your own demise.

Have you had the conversation about how your finances will work once the baby is here? Well you be expected to finance your maternity leave with your savings? Will you have a joint account you can both access?

I absolutely get that you don't want to stop TTC but you need to protect yourself. If he won't marry/discuss marriage you need to make sure you can do this alone because otherwise there is a rush that you will spend your savings on the baby and then split up and you will have no right at all to anything from him beyond child support based on his income not his assets. Have seen it happen many times.

It is GREAT that you've met someone you love and I'm not saying LTB but if he is refusing to understand that having a baby makes you financially vulnerable then you need to make your own plans.

Is he wanting the baby now?

I think you're putting far too much trust into someone who is thinking about himself first.

I would say no marriage, no baby and be firm about it.

It's been 2.5 years and I assume he is at least late 30s.
If he wanted to marry you, he would ask.

Don't let him kick the can down the road with this.
You've given him everything he has wanted.

It's his turn.

@MissTrip82 a very good point about declining quality in sperm with age, very misunderstood and not acknowledged enough.
Op, you can get unbiased, evidence based information on the HFEA (Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority) website on this, as well as the NHS. Although you don't know until you try, you should at least be informed.

The obvious next step for him is not marriage because he doesn't want to marry. He knows it is important to you and is choosing not to do it. If he wanted to be married to you, he'd propose - he already knows it's what you desperately want. He shuts you down every time you have a discussion about it because it's an annoyance to him - there is no 'plan' and he is conditioning you to stop bringing it up.

We've seen it time and time again on MN. He will likely kick this can along the road, promising he'll do it sometime in the near future. Basically he will merrily waste your time. When you pull him up on it, suddenly it'll be 'oh we've not got enough money', 'I need to find the perfect moment'... before you know it, you're 10 years down the line. Still not married, having compromised your career to raise the kids therefore in a difficult financial position. Then after children are born and he already has what he wants, what reason has he really got to marry you? He likely won't do it just for your sake - he's refusing now despite you being upset, and past behaviour is the best predictor of future behaviour.

If marriage is important to you, do not let yourself all into this trap. You shouldn't trust him implicitly in this situation - you should be looking out for yourself.

Thanks guys. There's a lot to take in. We haven't discussed financial plan if / once I give birth and I'm aware of the amount of sacrifice that will be mainly on my side, physically, financially, emotionally. That's a huge driver of the importance of the security and commitment of marriage to me.

I have a decent corporate career and have just received a promotion in recent months, however the industry (Sales) is demanding and high stress and a change has been on my mind for some time now. The kind of job that doesn't feel sustainable with a family, so I've been up-skilling and networking to see what my options are. Fully aware that there's a huge risk in this alone; which doesn't help with my mental health alongside the TTC, marriage, house-buying, all the things that seem critical to me atm.

My partner speaks the language of "we", "our money" but our finances are separate at this point. I do need to consider and have the conversation around how we would manage them during mat leave, etc. We made the decision TTC, and the next step was to start mortgage approval and house hunting after April, once he's got 6 months tenure in his new job. So his side of this is something along the lines of, "these are big things and we ARE progressing, but we can't do everything at once".

He knows I want to get married, I can't imagine how he couldn't know this isn't a huge thing for me and it's getting harder with time: every new engagement etc provokes so much pain for me.

Op, an engagement is the least of your concerns! So far in this relationship:

1. you have no claim to the house you're paying rent on (as not married) as I'm guessing you're not on the deeds. If he dumps you, you'll have lost all the money you've paid and be homeless.
2. you're paying off his mortgage and he won't even share finances with you
3. there is no will to protect you should he die suddenly and you will still have no claim to the house as you're not a blood relative
4. he won't marry you and refuses to even discuss it
5. you are having a child with no house protection, financial security or legal contract - and he has no interest in offering ANY of this to you
6. he knows you are desperate for a child due to your age and is using it as leverage to get what HE wants (a child). You are just a womb atm because he doesn't care to protect you or give you what you want
7. none of this will change if you get pregnant before buying a house or making a will or being on the mortgage deeds or being married. He knows this hence dragging his feet.

This is not a team, OP.