How to broach the "please propose" thing as a late 30s woman

[wonderingwonderingwondering]

37F, in a relationship for 2.5 years with my partner. We live together, co-parent a lovely doggy, are very well suited in terms of our personalities, he's the most loving partner i've ever had. We got together during the pandemic - lived in different cities but I moved to his within 6 months and we moved in together a few months later.

A little over a year into our relationship, I got to wondering about how the relationship was going to progress. We had never had the marriage - babies conversation until then; frankly I was longterm single when I met him and had accepted my fate, didn't think these things would ever happen. Suddenly I was in love, very happy and realised I wanted to settle down and start to build my family. We've had that conversation about half a dozen times over the last year and a half and every time I raise these things I feel my partnership shut down, get annoyed, or tell me "we've spoken about this already / we have a plan".

A few months ago he started a much higher paying job, he told me he wanted to prepare for us potentially trying for a child and being able to provide well. Then, last November we decided to start trying. It's obviously only been a few months and I don't know what the journey is going to look like for us, but I've started to feel an immense urge to be married and be his wife. The "boyfriend / girlfriend" tag seems so immature and casual in contrast to what we have as a couple: he is my life partner and he's my whole life and he's told me the same about me.

Marriage doesn't seem to be a priority to him. Another important bit of context is that there was an unexpected and very sudden death in his family around this same time, which probably pushed us into starting TTC. I made some half-jokes in the lead up to Christmas about a proposal, which he addressed by saying, "it absolutely is on my mind, but now isn't the time." I understand that, at least practically. But especially as we get deeply entrenched into this TTC process - I'm beginning to get deeply impatient and wonder, "well when is?"

I want to be married. I want the status of husband and wife, I want the legal partnership, I want the protection and commitment of it. Financially we are not far apart; I have a lot of savings and investments, while he owns the house that we live in. We can afford to get married, we can afford to build our family. I'm struggling with straddling the sensitivity towards his bereavement with my own strong desire to be married to him and the frustration of feeling like this will never be a priority to him.

To make matters worse; we are surrounded by married couples with young children. A friend of mine has just gotten engaged after 6 months together; there are few childless and non married folks around me. I just don't understand his delay with this, especially if our feelings about each other are mutual.

Does anyone have any advice?

Brutally, if you want to be a single mother, crack on. Do you want that for your baby?

If you don't...

• stop TTC right now.
• tell him you're booking solicitor appointments for wills, LPOA, and you're booking the registry office. Once that's all sorted and you're married and have an agreement on what the plan is for finances once babies come along, you'll start TTC again.

If he pulls his head out his arse and goes, "OK then", and isn't a dick about it, happy days. If he balks or quibbles - this is not the man you want by your side when you face the trials of bringing up children and growing old. Pack and go.

You really assume that you will conceive easily and carry the pregnancy to term, like all you need to do is just TTC. At your age, the likelihood of poor egg quality is high, and as a result, chromosomal abnormalities, miscarriages. It's not straightforward for many.

Ask yourself these three questions:

1. "how screwed would I be if he walked out/dropped dead right now?"

That's good practice even for couples who will stay together to do that kind of household audit. Anything can happen. Your boyfriend could lose his job. He could develop an illness and become incapacitated, or hit by a bus.

Then in terms of your relationship then ask yourself;

"If my options were
a) to never marry 'Dave' but spend the rest of my life with him or;

b) Be a wife, but to someone else, which one would I choose?"

Then ask;
" if I choose (a), what do I need to do to ensure I will be fine financially, careerwise, and homewise, particularly if we have kids?"

It's also worth assessing whether in the same setup as you are now with your partner but 10 years younger, would your answers still be the same, and if not, why?

This puts really clearly what I wanted to say.

Op you say ytour relationship is great, but it can't be if you he shuts you down / gets mad when you try to talk about marriage. If you can TTC, you can talk about marriage. His bereavement is irrelevant (again, TTC is a much more significant step in terms of lifetime commitment, if you're serious about it).

The fact he won't even discuss it with you screams alarm bells. I wouldn't be TTC with a man who wouldn't commit to me.

I'm under no illusion about my age and the risks involved. I've got a fertility scan, bloods and ultra sound scheduled and am acutely aware of the potential that conception might not be possible or may be a struggle.

All of this is really painful, so while I really appreciate all of this advice and am trying to take it on board - literally jotting down notes on what I need to think about and approach my partner about, next steps in terms of house deeds, shared finances etc. Even going as far as to thinking about where I can live and rent temporarily if I get the same pushback from him on moving forwards. I'd like to remind you that this is a real human here, with a real life, a lot of stress and a hell of a lot of overwhelm with all of this. I don't have a close family relationship and all I get from outsiders is "when is X going to propose / why aren't you married yet?" and it's a lot to take in.

What outsiders? They sound awful.

Honestly the pressure and expectation put on women to marry (and then internalised and put on themselves), even in the 21st century, are insane.

Personally I don't consider marriage that important.

As someone upthread said, the main thing you need is to have financial equity and be on the house deeds.

To some degree it feels like you are self sabotaging what is a happy relationship that's working.

A lot of women seem to think their partners are out to screw them over and they need to lock them down. Not saying this is you, but I think it's healthy to examine how much society and our social circles shape our internal narrative.

Why is it only marriage that = commitment?

Having a house together, having a baby together, knowing between you what the status of your relationship is... to me those things are commitment.

Marriage is the conventional wrapper, 'proof' for the rest of the world to see.

@wonderingwonderingwondering

Ha yes I remember those "when are you getting married" questions. Anyone who asks that of a woman in her 30s is a cast iron dickhead.

I know you haven't asked about this but a fertility scan can really ramp up the pressure. If it's being done by a private fertility clinic just take what they say with a pinch of salt unless it's an actual diagnosis. The whole egg count / AMH thing is not as clear cut as they make it out to be. I hope it serves to put your mind at rest on that front, anyway.

The whole waiting for a proposal thing is awful, I know. Especially when every other sodding couple is getting engaged. But, trust me on this, don't stay with him if he is knowingly dragging out a situation that is making you as unhappy as you sound. It doesn't bode well for the future. The pressure at your age is just insane, but please remember that you have the rest of your life to live too. He has to be good enough for that. It will be OK if you stay true to yourself - which includes asking for what you want - and listen to your feelings. Btw I don't think you are "asking too much". You are offering him your commitment, your love, and to bear his child. That is HUGE. It's everything you have, really.

I would strongly recommend stepping out of the pressure cooker for a bit and getting some perspective back. Can you get away somewhere, even if only for a weekend ? Like a yoga retreat or something outdoorsy ? It sounds to me like you're so focussed on the outcome you want (that isn't a criticism btw) that you have lost touch with yourself. Perhaps you could say your piece, then go away for a few days to give him space to think, then set your compass for the next stage, whatever that is. It's great you have a good job and financial security.

It must be really really difficult for you to think about OP and I hope you're doing well

I think maybe take some of the things posters have written here and put them to him. Maybe he hasn't thought about some of the implications for you or, if he has, doesn't quite understand them.

If you put it to him in plain terms and he still drags his heels, ultimately you know he's likely protecting his assets and does not really see you as a team. Then you'll know what you need to do - go out & find someone who wants the same as you do

They don’t have a house together. It’s his house. The OP pays rent.

@GreenestValley Marriage is literally that - a commitment. A legal agreement. Protection. A public declaration of your relationship.

Having a house together is much less of a commitment. I had a house with my best friend, but I wasn't promising I'd be faithful to her and never leave her. Having a baby with someone isn't a commitment to them. It's a commitment to the baby (if you're a half decent parent) but not to the other parent.

Marriages fail sometimes of course. But by legally committing to someone you're saying you intend it to last, and if it fails there is legal and financial protection.

I know marriage isn't for everyone, which is fine. But in this case the Op wants to marry, it means something to her.

Marriage is the conventional wrapper, 'proof' for the rest of the world to see.

Its actually legal and financial security for a woman who will take, almost exclusively, the hit (physically and financially) when having a child.

If you are a woman who is better off or in a higher earning career than your partner, you'd be worse off getting married.

I put in 75% of our house deposit.

If we get married, and then split up, I'd lose out.

So the narrative of getting married is better for women, isn't necessarily the case.

No, but that’s not the case here, as detailed in the OP.

In my post, by ‘a woman’, I was referring specifically to the OP.

No it's not necessarily the case that women are better off married. But in a relationship where someone is about to get pregnant and take the financial/ career hit that entails in most cases, where the woman's assets are cash savings not property, and where they have not made a separate legal arrangement about finances, the woman is better off married.

I never thought marriage mattered either until I find myself pregnant and with a much higher earning partner. You are vulnerable in all sorts of ways when you're pregnant/post birth and you need to prepare for your own security. Marriage is a ready-made way of doing that.

you shouldn’t have moved in together and got a dog without deciding on whether you want to spend your lives together and if you want marriage this should have been discussed along with finances.
I know it sounds harsh but take this advice for next time.
I only moved in once I knew he was going to propose and if he hadn’t I would have moved on and found a person who wanted the same things.

don’t sink all your heart into a maybe. Find a man who is solid as a rock and you know where you stand.

Sorry to hear that you are under such pressure. I can understand it driving you to take steps that are not "ideal". Hopefully it will work out for the best - just make sure you do have a Plan B. People on this board are quite protective of women being treated unfairly by their partners, and try to warn them (especially against mistakes they've made themselves), not entirely without reason.
Good luck!

Thanks all. I really do appreciate all of this advice and know that it is well meaning. It helps a lot as I tend to struggle with prioritising myself in general and making sure my needs are met.

It's hard to see the word for the trees as my head is like a washing machine with all of this pressure. It's good to get that reality check, but equally, I don't want the trust to break down between my partner and I and assume bad intention - he is a good, kind man and loves me better than anyone ever has before in my life. So I want to work this out with him, but I'm also aware that there may be an incompatibility problem and I need to stand up for myself if I keep getting the "maybe" and "all in good time" from him.

@wonderingwonderingwondering I recognise so much of myself about 10-15 years ago in what you have said... Ok, so he loves you better than anyone else has ever loved you. That shouldn't be the test, I'm sorry. Are you genuinely happy with him, and do you feel safe and loved ? those are the tests.

Not really sure why on earth you trust singing who, knowing you want to marry, doesn't care enough to sort that out before trying for a baby with you. So, clearly, youre not hood enough to be his wide but you are good enough to incubate his mini me. He's taking the actual piss op.

But to be fair, you're being passive and ridiculous too. If you want to get married, tell him it's time and you want to set a date. It's beyond immature to ge trying for a child with a man who you want to marry who, doesbg seem interested (FYI, he's not, or he would).

Tell him its time. If he says no then have done with him. Do not try for a baby until after the wedding. As I'd bet my ass he'll get 'cold feet' before it.

Sorry op but ge doesn't want to marry you. And he doesn't respect you one iota or he wpuld gave said no to the baby before the marriage.

I don't know if I would internalise all this stuff about him not loving you or taking you seriously if he won't marry you.

If you are interested in the financial and legal protection maybe see if he would be open to writing up an agreement about finances or putting some money in an account in advance for you to use during the first years of the child's life?

What are the actual practical issues you need to solve and can you discuss those?

A wedding can easily take a year to plan and I can see why you want to crack on with TTC. At 37 I can see why that's the priority.

Yes, but is that not like saying that only being treated 20% poorly is better than the 100% you're used to? You're still being treated poorly. You are still not in a relationship with someone who prioritises your needs. You are still with someone who brushes you off and shuts you down. You are still with someone who tells you you're his world and then minimises your feelings. You are still with someone who isn't respecting what you say and feel. You are still with someone whose words and actions don't match.

You need to face it. In a healthy relationship, you can say what you want, you can ask for what you need. Your partner doesn't do any of the stuff above. He'd be starting off his answers with 'I understand how you feel, I think, but tell me more about how it is for you, so that we can find a solution that suits us both.'

What is the plan he's referring to? Can you actually answer that? Or has he got you completely in the dark, and making out that you know and have agreed to something?

I’m worried you’re fearful about saying what you really want in case it angers him or pushes him away. That’s not right.

Yes, do make sure it's clear to him that the baby having his surname is a husband privilege.