Emotional betrayal

[Moost]

Hi all

About 8 months ago I discovered my husband of three years had struck up an unacceptable relationship via texting with a friend's wife. Whilst I have been assured by both parties it never became physical, they both admitted it did get out of hand including pictures (which I have seen) and daily contact etc.

My little boy was 4 months old at the time, it was going on for couple of months I am told. This in itself was hard to accept as I felt it was an incredibly vulnerable time for any new mum, recovering from section and breastfeeding.

I was devastated. And still am.

I made a decision to try and work on my marriage, as I do believe my husband when he says he still loves me, he has shown he wants to do whatever he can to save our marriage, but primarily for our two young children. I feel we have to try and recover and I really do not want to break up their little family.

I guess I don't really want to hear from the 'kick him to the curb' voices. I have made my own mistakes in past relationships, albeit I have learnt from them, and I also have learnt through life things are not always so simple.

I believe we still very much love each other, and I know our closeness, particularly intimacy took a back seat for a while due to pregnancy, breastfeeding and just tiredness as with most mums of two young children. This is no excuse for his behaviour, I know that, but I can acknowledge that relationships can become vulnerable particularly if that part of your relationship was so important previously.

In short, we have commenced therapy, individual and then we will move on to couples therapy. It has been a great outlet for me because I have told noone about this. I know if we are really going to get back on track, the less people know the better. But it has been really difficult, and to be honest my maternity leave has just been a memory I want to forget as it's been overshadowed all of this.

I have managed to protect the kids from it as much as possible, and they have kept me going.

We obviously have a long way to go, and trust is a major issue. But the reason I'm posting is I'm feeling low today. My husband has spoken to me about stag do coming up in few weeks, he would like to go, 4 or 5 nights skiing. Normally we would make these things work, but I'm feeling completely mixed emotions. If I'm honest, I feel like why should he get to go off and have a laugh, when my heart is still breaking. I know I have to stop punishing him, and he's a very sociable guy and trying to curb that for my own selfish reasons will only harm us more in the long run.

But am I being completely unreasonable under the circumstances? I just feel this time that he should be focusing his efforts on us, our family, as the reality is our marriage and family unit is very much on the line.

I should add that he is a very good father, does his fair share with kids and home, and also has no issues with me going away with friends on occasions.

I guess at the moment, I just don't want to because I'm a bit of a broken mess.

Sorry for the ramble, I'm just feeling a bit sorry for myself today.

I think there’s little mileage in the brothers further discussing this woman and the effect she’s had on your marriage: no one can dictate or restrict your BiL’s friendship group. It’s up to your husband to cut her out, not his brother.
There’s nothing unique or special about her, no defence for his betrayal. He could and should have resisted her however he responded to someone who was as keen for an extramarital affair as him. Together they both chose to disrespect you.
In fact, I feel they are still failing to respect or consider you. Your progress would have advanced more steadily if your husband had left next door when you did, but he didn’t, did he? He didn’t put your needs first: he continued to indulge his selfish desires, ride roughshod over your tremendous hurt.
For goodness sake, OP, cut him down to the shelf of abject shame where he should be rather than hold him as an equal or superior to your feelings. Putting aside blame to move on before you’ve indicated your anger gives your husband a green flag. Firmly establish your boundaries. Make it abundantly clear what is acceptable to you now. Don’t equivocate because of something you did in the past. Stop him in his tracks if you believe he’s good enough to be your husband. Read the second part of that last sentence again, OP.
If it were me, I’d have wiped the floor with him even if I’d decided not to divorce. You present as too tolerant, too accommodating, too mild, someone easy to push around - perhaps this is what the counsellor is hinting at. Should your husband perceive you as weak, he’ll repeat whenever he wants to. What an ego boost for him having two women who desire him. Can you live with the possibility he might do this again? What has he done to demonstrate to you he has changed, that he is truly remorseful for what he did? Judge his actions, not his words.
I’m sorry to be so blunt and hurtful but I want to stir up your instinct for self-preservation, to give you a chance.
Newusername21 has nailed it imo. Seriously consider what you intend to gain from persevering* with this marriage. Don’t throw away your confidence, trust and worth for him.

*continuing in the face of difficulty or with little or no indication of success

@billy1966 thank you. Yes perhaps she is still interested in H. Strangely I don't feel threatened by her, I genuinely don't feel that he would ever want to be with her in terms of a relationship. She's very attractive, but I've always found her to lack class (even before this) and intelligence. Even more weirdly, although she's definitely prettier than me and a nicer figure, I have always senses some jealousy (around my job for example, some clothes she made a strange comment 'they look expensive' and that kind of shit). Seems my instincts were right. There was something off about her from day one, even though she pretended to be friendly I could see an underlying nasty side. I think they probably had some history. They went to school together, grew up together, husbands were friends, went on group hols etc. I'd say this isn't first time they have used each other for a bit of an ego boost, just the first time they were caught. Like you don't randomly send someone you know flirty chats and pictures when you haven't seen them in ages and aren't really in their social group anymore (which we hadn't been). So for me, it was an easy 'this is a cert' type of thing. If that makes sense.

She’s used him to get at you because she’s jealous of you. She’s weak and struck when you were more vulnerable.
Forget her prettiness and figure for they’re cancelled by her nastiness and determination to destroy. As your husband has been in a dark place because of her, he too should realise she’s bad news.
Is her husband aware of what has happened? Have you spoken to him? If not, don’t hold back and protect her. Speak also to your SiL as it could happen to her too. Expose her for what she is. You’ve done nothing wrong so why keep quiet?
Rally your support, OP.

@Alissia i never really thought about it like that but maybe she did have an agenda outside of the obvious.
Her H is unaware. Im not entirely sure why I didn't tell him at the time, again probably to do with trying to keep it under wraps as it would be harder for us to stay together the more people knew. Both him and my H were friends and part of a large circle of friends. Then there's next door.

Who knows how her this woman's H would react. I think he could probably knock my H into next year, but would he be as hurt as me? Do men get as hurt by texting and images? I don't know. I had images of him arriving at the door and punching my H. Whilst he would deserve it, I would hate for my little ones to be exposed to that. They also have a little one and I felt I didn't want to be the one to expose all and break up her family. I know that's nuts, but deep down I feel this woman will be at it again and at some stage her world will crash around her. Without my help. I really do.

Sorry for all the messages but it's been good to vent.

It's just all been getting on top of me anytime we are making progress she comes into the mix somehow. Just her name alone is too much for me right now.

I had a big birthday recently and it was first time me and H were getting away for 3 nights since our first was born (we hadn't even managed one night on our own in last 3 years). Given our issues, it was really important for us, to reconnect, and we were in a much better place and looking forward to it, something that wouldn't have been possible a few months back. Literally the day before we were leaving was nephews party, and there she was. It hadn't even crossed my mind she would show up. Whilst we both blocked it out on the trip i'd be lying if I said it didn't put a dampner on things. It did, not even seeing her, but all the questions as to treatment from in-laws.

My other SIL was there and I know for sure she caught my face when I walked in. So she's probably wondering wtf is going on.

Then last weekend keeping their kids only to see the next day them on social media on their night out with that tramp. It is tough (I have her blocked but not my in laws).

Now the next big thing is BIL also has big birthday in next couple of weeks. Of course all will be invited. My H absolutely should and will be there. But I will probably sit it out. My SIL has text as I haven't replied for numbers, which has probably brought all this to a head again for me. I don't want to spoil anyone's birthday. So I think I will have to speak to SIL but maybe let all go ahead and then after tell her all. Not so she cuts ties with this woman, but so she can do the decent thing and keep any exposure to a minimum for me, if she does indeed care.

I think her H would be every bit as hurt as you. Years ago, my father observed exactly your situation which led to the aggrieved husband thumping the other man who I’ll call JW. It didn’t stop the philandering, didn’t influence the adoration of his very pretty and attractive wife, but it gave the community a temporary sense of justice.
Yes, you are nuts to keep her family together.
Don’t bear all the stress whilst waiting for karma for she could be another JW. It’s detrimental to your emotional and physical well-being.

Considering you don’t want all this to come out (as it will be easier to repair the marriage), suggest to your H that you go away when the big birthday will take place. That gives you a convenient excuse and protects you. Remind him of the dark place he’s inhabited because of his involvement with her. Does he really want to revisit this?
Make him choose. Don’t see it from his point of view, but from yours and yours only. It’s time to be assertive, to put yourself in the driving seat.

He shouldn’t be going. I went through similar, my partner betrayed me, not physical but messages ect, and it’s been over a year since we decided to make our relationship work and he doesn’t even do nights out, let alone a stag do! Because he knows rebuilding the trust between us is more important. So yeah I feel your pain.

@Moost
You want to rebuild and punish at the same time. Discuss that with your therapist or counselor.

But why has BIL been so useless? Is it a male thing, it wasn't physical etc?

This is probably the reason. Many men seem to see cheating as physical and anything up to that point is in the 'flirting' category.

By the sounds of it, she's a regular feature in your lives so this needs to come into the open. Privacy has to be balanced against the fact that you are increasingly avoiding family member and important family gatherings because she may be there. She's clearly gotten over her guilt when she's happily turning up in places she knows you'll be. That takes a certain amount of cuntishness on her part, don't you think? It's very goady.

You can either protect your marriage or you can protect her. Right now you avoiding family events when you know she'll be there is going to ultimately affect your marriage so I say tell everyone what they did. Fuck her.

They can choose to continue to invite her, but they do it with the full knowledge that they are actively choosing her and at least then you and your husband can decline. Which I think actually, both of you needs to be a team on. He shouldn't be turning up at family events where she'll be present but you feel you have to avoid due to her. He should stay home as well.

I've read your update and I think your BIL and SIL (if she knows) are not behaving well. Yes the woman is their friend. But they should be invested enough in wanting to help your h and you make your marriage work that that and she comes second.
Having her at a family party where they knew you would be is beyond insensitive and I think you've a right to be angrier about that than you have let yourself be.

I would speak to SIL yes and just gently point out that things are still tricky, and you find it quite triggering to even hear about this woman let alone be in the same room as her. Those are your feelings and it's fine to express that. BIL, and SIL should respect that going forwards even if for some reason they are incapable of 'getting it'. And your H should back you up on this.

….so your BIL and SIL are “allowed” to have a decent & function relationship with your husband, but aren’t allowed the same with the woman next door ?

You DH and the next door neighbour are equally to blame for what happened, so why does she get the greater punishment ?

This is going to make you ill op, continually surpressing your emotions and turning them inwards on yourself, it causes depression, anxiety and a whole host of physical illnesses that are caused by stress.

For you hoping that he will always do the right thing, and never does will chip away at you, you want to be put first without continually having to point out to him how to do that.

He sounds selfish and immature and you sound reasonable and logical, it is not your fault, any of this but you are having to swallow this resentment for the sake of appearances, the appearance that your husband actually cares.

Your world will become smaller with this man as he has an innability to protect you and you will become weary of having to fight for your reputation.
I think if I were you I would seek solo councelling because men like this can often manipulate and frighten councellors into not speaking the truth of the situation.

Start thinking about yourself op, how do you think a husband should treat you? , with kindness, respect and loyalty I should imagine, and in such a short period he has crossed boundaries and let you down.
I don't like the possition he has put you in.

As for the pp, take no notice, you need not take this ow into account on any level, and yes it hurts when inlaws do not show loyalty, so you have every right to end that relationship if you wish to.

You have every right to be heard, to have your feelings taken into account as anyone else on this planet and that includes the spoilt bully brothers who have each other's backs at the expense of their families, and I could imagine if the ow's husband did find out, he would be up against these brothers who come as a pair. You don't realise it but you are stronger than these two boys who are still holding hands.

@ExtraOnions 'she' isn't getting any punishment at all. Op is trying to salvage her marriage. That takes guts, emotional commitment and hard work. And she is invested in it because there are kids in the middle and presumably she loves her husband. It's not inherent on her to forgive the woman who knowingly threatened her marriage on top. And it's not unreasonable for her to find it hard to be around or hear about said woman who along with her h has done her harm. And it's further not unreadable to ask her actual family to help not put her in an uncomfortable distressing position. She has to be around the husband to try and make it work, hard as it is, as that's her choice. She doesn't have to be around someone who knew them as a couple, knew she'd just had a baby and chose to be part of disrupting her marriage anyway. She doesn't owe her that or sympathy, or anything at all.
Hard Enough to forgive the husband. She doesn't need to throw forgiving the OW and making small talk at parties with her as well right now.

You are getting very sound advice from @RandomForest and @Alissia among others.

You are putting at terrible risk your general and mental health for a very disloyal man.

He is not a good man.

He should have removed himself immediately from that party.

He is allowing you to be isolated within the wider family because of this woman.

Atrocious behaviour.

This is such a distressing thread to read on your behalf.

If you were my daughter I would be absolutely devastated at your treatment.

You are protecting everyone but yourself and your children desperately need their ONE DECENT HONOURABLE PARENT IN GOOD HEALTH.

Find your anger for your children.

They deserve so much better than a father who treats their precious mother so poorly.

@ billy1966 👏👏👏 You are particularly incisive and insightful.
Thank you for the support of the OP and also of me.

He shouldn't even be asking the question. Five nights skiing, on a stag do no less, when he has just broken your heart and trampled all over your pride. C'mon. If he was that committed to salvaging your marriage he wouldn't have the balls to even think about holidaying as a single man. There is no excuse for what he did to you, especially when you'd just given birth to his baby. He's either 100% on board to repairing that damage or he isn't. Otherwise all the counselling in the world is a waste of space.

Stop being a bloody martyr! No your DH should NOT be at his brother's party if that woman is going to be there. His actions, his sacrifice. And he needs to tell his brother why he won't be there.

I can see what your therapist means about you not getting angry or letting your emotions go. Are you worried that if you get mad you risk not keeping the marriage going?

GET MAD! Your DH needs to actively avoid being around that woman, normal life in that regard is over for him.

And if he is distanced from his own brother as a result, then that is a small price to pay.

Also, the suspicious mind in me, do your DH and his brother look similar? Do you think he is her type too????

Oh, and I bet he was delighted when you went away with the girls. It gave him some breathing space away from your heartache and questioning and it made him look all loving and understanding.

@billy1966 thanks for comments. I do though have to say, he is not a bad man. He is a good guy, who did a bad thing, and is trying to put things right.
He has done everything I have asked him and to be fair, I stopped him a few times from having words next door because I didn't think the timing was right etc.
He's a great dad, and until this, was a great husband also. And before marriage. But yes, he did a shitty thing.
I do believe in second chances within reason. And as I still feel he v much loves me, I'm giving things a chance. And that's my choice.

In terms of his brothers party, I would never ask him to sit that out. They both lost their mother very suddenly, very recently, and need each other, particularly when I haven't been probably as tuned into his grief as I would have been. I can't punish him for ever now that I've decided we will try to work through this.

As I have said, I'm not bothered if she's there, and that's down to the work we have done now for quite a few months, building trust. I just don't want to be there as I wouldn't trust myself after a couple of drinks under the circumstances, but also don't want to have to be the one to sit things out.

Really appreciative of your perspective though. 😊

@OrderOfTheKookaburra ha, no they look nothing alike. Without sounding mean BIL definitely not her type

@piscofrisco thanks you 😊

I completely understand why you want to make this work, you love him and have a strong family ethic as many women do.

And I admire your strength of forgiveness, you obviously wanted confirmation that you were not being unreasonable on this issue, you were not, just like you were not unreasonable to be upset on him going on a stag do for 5 days, but you are applying your morals and your views on marriage to his which are out of kilter with yours.

You are dealing with each problem seperately, another hurdle to overcome but are unwilling to look at the bigger picture.

Keep the thread going, it is there for your support and we ladies will always be here, I got a feeling you're going to need it.

Best wishes. x

Yes, we ladies will be here for you and I too feel you’re going to need it. I wonder if billy1966 gives a man’s perspective.

I agree with above OP.

Please use MN to help get all these emotions out.

You sound so lovely, forgiving and willing to give your husband the benefit of the doubt.

Married 30 years with 4 children I absolutely understand your desire to keep your family together.

But at potentially some terrible cost to yourself and your health I fear.

I think your desire to stay in your marriage and move forward has become far too connected with protecting this woman and your in laws from the truth.

You cannot be all things to everyone, all forgiving, ignoring your own pain without profoundly putting your own mental health and well-being at risk.

Choices need to be made.

Honesty is required here by you.
Protecting your husbands image is not of paramount importance here.

You need to find your own voice in this.

In your place, I would have filleted my husband, told my SIL/ family the truth, told my husband that I wanted that woman and her husband informed to stay away from our home, I didn't want to see them near my living environment.
Let moving house be an option.

I care about my lovely SIL's but wouldn't consider them particularly close friends, but I would be so upset to find them in your position at the hands of my friend.
My loyalty wouldn't be confused in this situation.
She has behaved appallingly, as has your husband, I would not want her near my home.

If your husband was putting you, his children and his family's survival first, he would be supporting this and not have been concerning himself with bloody stag parties.

We are here for you.