Emotional betrayal

[Moost]

Hi all

About 8 months ago I discovered my husband of three years had struck up an unacceptable relationship via texting with a friend's wife. Whilst I have been assured by both parties it never became physical, they both admitted it did get out of hand including pictures (which I have seen) and daily contact etc.

My little boy was 4 months old at the time, it was going on for couple of months I am told. This in itself was hard to accept as I felt it was an incredibly vulnerable time for any new mum, recovering from section and breastfeeding.

I was devastated. And still am.

I made a decision to try and work on my marriage, as I do believe my husband when he says he still loves me, he has shown he wants to do whatever he can to save our marriage, but primarily for our two young children. I feel we have to try and recover and I really do not want to break up their little family.

I guess I don't really want to hear from the 'kick him to the curb' voices. I have made my own mistakes in past relationships, albeit I have learnt from them, and I also have learnt through life things are not always so simple.

I believe we still very much love each other, and I know our closeness, particularly intimacy took a back seat for a while due to pregnancy, breastfeeding and just tiredness as with most mums of two young children. This is no excuse for his behaviour, I know that, but I can acknowledge that relationships can become vulnerable particularly if that part of your relationship was so important previously.

In short, we have commenced therapy, individual and then we will move on to couples therapy. It has been a great outlet for me because I have told noone about this. I know if we are really going to get back on track, the less people know the better. But it has been really difficult, and to be honest my maternity leave has just been a memory I want to forget as it's been overshadowed all of this.

I have managed to protect the kids from it as much as possible, and they have kept me going.

We obviously have a long way to go, and trust is a major issue. But the reason I'm posting is I'm feeling low today. My husband has spoken to me about stag do coming up in few weeks, he would like to go, 4 or 5 nights skiing. Normally we would make these things work, but I'm feeling completely mixed emotions. If I'm honest, I feel like why should he get to go off and have a laugh, when my heart is still breaking. I know I have to stop punishing him, and he's a very sociable guy and trying to curb that for my own selfish reasons will only harm us more in the long run.

But am I being completely unreasonable under the circumstances? I just feel this time that he should be focusing his efforts on us, our family, as the reality is our marriage and family unit is very much on the line.

I should add that he is a very good father, does his fair share with kids and home, and also has no issues with me going away with friends on occasions.

I guess at the moment, I just don't want to because I'm a bit of a broken mess.

Sorry for the ramble, I'm just feeling a bit sorry for myself today.

A relationship is built on trust, without that there’s no point being in a relationship. You either put his “cheating” behind and “get over it” or dump him. Staying in that fear state of mind where his any move causes you all this insecurities is stressful and very toxic for the relationship. You need to move forward OP. yes he fu-ked up, yes he regretted it and went on couples therapy. Box ticked. Upwards and onwards from now. If he cheats again then you know this is a recurrent theme, he’s a bad Apple and that’s when you dump him for good. I had the same thing happen to me and yes, we got over it and were happy for many years.

Sounds really hard. The worst thing being all the faking and covering up you’re having to do. For him. So he gets to keep his reputation as a great husband and father. And it massively underplays the actual hard work you’ve had to do to try and save your marriage. I would bet money that you’re working harder at this than he is. This will mess with your head.

this is one of the problems which men being an arsehole like this creates - they turn us into liars like themselves. We have to cover up and lie or omit

This is true, but I think it goes much further. In order to stay after a betrayal or abandonment, we must betray and abandon ourselves, and I believe this is where most of the emotional harm occurs.

We betray ourselves when we accept the unacceptable, we abandon ourselves when we accept stories that we know aren’t true, or don’t speak up for ourselves. Or when we keep quiet and deny ourselves support so these men can keep their reputation intact.

Its the only way a person can stay.

I take my hat off to you for trying and you sound like a lovely woman. I just think once the trust has gone it’s gone. Fair play to you for trying to save your marriage- I really hope it works out. There is no excuses for what he did - he is disgusting and doesn’t deserve a second chance.

@contrary13 My childhood was a lot like yours...my father was unfaithful to my mother the whole of their 23 year marriage. My mother 'forgave' him multiple times...but she didn't really, and she never trusted him again. Unfortunately her inability to trust him, though natural, also wrecked mine and my two brother's childhoods. Like you, I have no happy childhood memories - and I also know for definite that my older brother doesn't, either.

My father finally left my mother for another women (who he later married) when I was 21. My mother was 47, never had another relationship - she is Catholic an as far as she is concerned, she's still married to my father. She is more angry and bitter now that she was when it happened...34 years ago this year.

Like you, I really wish they'd split up when my father was first unfaithful. My mother valued her religion and marriage above her children. Neither myself or my two brothers have had children of our own.

OP, I think after a year if you don't trust him, if you feel like he's not done enough to regain your trust, you aren't ever going to feel it. I don't blame you, the one thing I've learnt from my parent's dumpster fire of a marriage is cheat once, marriage/relationship is over. I don't give second chances. To me, it's giving someone a second chance to take the piss.

I’m really sorry you’re going through this and in your shoes I think I’d feel really similarly about not wanting him to go but not having to be the person to say no. I agree with everything @caringcarer said - I think you’ll just have to be honest and tell him exactly what you’ve told us.

I would also try to turn it round a bit onto him during the conversation though, to try to work out his thought processes and encourage him to see it from my pov - so things like “what would you do if you were me?” And “what would you advise a friend in your position?”

I also notice from your message that the length of the holiday (it’s not really a stag when it’s 5 days is it, ffs?!) is potentially the issue. Not that I think you should have to do this if you didn’t feel comfortable, but if the length is more the issue, is there any way of finding a compromise? Ie he does 2 nights instead? Yes maybe he’d have to fork out for the accommodation for the rest of the time and work out logistics like flights etc himself and yes he’d miss out on some of the fun, but would that work for you as a first step in trying to move on to a more normal way of doing things, but without so much pressure?

This is the problem , trust
you’ll find it hard to ever trust him again

id let him go , and keep track of your emotions and how You are that weekend
keeo a diary

and when he’s back get YOU a break away
some thinking time

but detach and think and watch
Can you imagine trusting him again ?
is he worth trusting

OP - This from PP - he should not even be considering going away. You have to open up & be vulnerable for him to see what HE needs to heal; Op I'm sorry but I think this is the same issue as the emotional affair, just manifested in a different way.

One of the reasons why the EA hurt so much is because he was selfish when you were vulnerable.

His focus on going for a ski trip stag do is again him being selfish when you are vulnerable.

He seems to have very limited ability to put anyone else's needs first. If he could, he wouldn't even have thought about going.

Stop trying to please everyone except yourself - it will only make you sadder

In trying to make things right he should be making you his priority not some "friends " You need to talk then let him decide what's more important. Hopefully its his family

Whatever happened to Stag Nights? Now, the stags and hens go for longer than the wedding and even honeymoon. It's absolute batshit fucking bloody ridiculous! I would never agree to mine going to one that was more than a night, and he neither. Then again, neither of us are that trashy that we'd even entertain going for more than a bbq/party. I'd say no, absolutely not. He's taking the piss. You know that.

He will NEVER CHANGE. And you know it. You don't want to hear LTBs, fine, but he will never, ever, EVER change. You're just wasting your time. If my husband asked me to go to a Stag Night that involved even one sleepover (let alone 4) after what he did, I'd announce I want a divorce in that very second he asked. You're being a doormat and you will raise your boy in this dysfunctional relationship with a scumbag of a father. Good luck to your son, as he is the only innocent one who has no say in growing up in this dysfunction.

I’m in a similar (but slightly worse) place OP - my H started with an emotional affair which then became physical and continued for 12 months before I found out 11 months ago. We are trying to stay together, and he has made quite a few changes to his lifestyle to try to help me rebuild trust.

One of these is not going out for drinks etc without me, and certainly not going away without me, including to conferences (he took OW to a couple of conferences so this is a big trigger). He came to these things himself, voluntarily. I have never had to be the bad guy telling him not to go.

So I guess I’m agreeing with the others - he should be bending over backwards at this point trying to make you feel comfortable, and assure you that he is “safe” to trust again. To me even asking to go on a boys’ ski trip indicates that he doesn’t truly “get” how you’re feeling, or isn’t truly committed to making you feel safe. I think you need to tell him how you feel about this trip and see what he says - and any response other than complete understanding and an offer not to go would be a red flag for me.

As above.
My dh hasn't even heard of 5 day stage night.
It would be a no from me.
Trust needs to be rebuilt
Just like in any new relationship
And this now a new relationship
The old one is over
Things will never be the same but they can be better.
And 8 months is nothing.
2 - 3 years is a more realistic timeframe
You have good and bad days
But you'll get through.

Cheating has a 2-5 year healing time. You’re so new to all of this. It’s no surprise you’re still feeling the way you do.

Reconciliation is possible, but it comes with transparency, honesty and absolute determination to build trust from the cheat.

Part of that determination is accepting consequences for their actions. I don’t think leaving you with young children for five days is acceptable full stop (regardless of cheating), maybe I’m old fashioned, but certainly not after an emotional affair while you’re still dealing with the emotional and mental fall out of what he has done.

He may have to sit this one out if he genuinely wants to rebuild your marriage. TBh I’m absolutely shocked he even thinks you should be ok with this!

I absolutely agree with posters that betrayed can be too agreeable and conflict avoidant, but now is the time to start showing your teeth.

You’re offering him a huge gift and he needs to show that he’s worthy of it!

I'll be honest, any man who thinks that it is okay to go on a five day bender when his marriage is hanging by a thread is an idiot. You need to be honest with your feelings and what his priorities signify to you OP.

Remember, to heal this he has to be committed to shouldering the responsibility for making this work. It was his choices that have brought the marriage here in the first place. I see it so often that the betrayed spouse is left with most of the emotional labour of trying to repair the marriage whilst the cheater just participates - not going to work.

I tried to stay, didn't work, we got divorced later on, wasted my time.

Few things stand out OP:

It’s a very important distinction that you discovered the cheating and he didn’t come clean. This shows the continued intent on his side and I’d be very concerned that this wasn’t the first time for him behaving this way. You were not the only one with a new baby in this situation, he was a new father and instead of focusing on his new family unit, he was focused on a friend’s wife! So not only was he cheating on you, but also a so called friend. Your DH demonstrates a really deep level of duplicity. I’d be very wary of this man.

Him putting the decision on you regarding the stag do is both selfish and quite manipulative. If he had learned anything from this situation it’s that he should be using this invite to show you how committed he is to rebuilding the relationship by not going. Instead he is using the invite to push you into choosing for him - he knows you well enough to know you’re not going to want to say no and seem like ‘that’ sort of wife. Clever.

Your own history (you’ve mentioned you made mistakes in a past relationship that you’ve learnt from) is probably clouding your judgement of your husband’s ability to rebuild / earn your trust. Just because you have personally learnt from your past mistakes and have personal experience of being the wrongdoer, doesn’t mean your husband will follow the same road. He may just be a bit of a chancer - say the right things, pull his weight and hey presto, all is forgiven.

You've talked a lot about how much work you’ve had to do to get to this point, but nothing about what he has done or is doing to rebuild your trust and alleviate to your heartbreak. It sounds to me like you’re still very vulnerable and heartbroken. If he was doing everything he could to get thing back - what would that look like? I’m fairly certain it wouldn’t look like you posting on MN and him edging you to ‘let him’ go on a five day stag do.

I’m so sorry this has happened to you and such a sad time for it to have happened when you’re were so truly vulnerable. My DH and I met in late teens and had an agreement when living apart at separate universities that we could window shop “flirt but no touching”. It meant that we both had what I would now recognise as emotional affairs and it did cause a little damage to our relationship. We never hid it from each other, which I guess is a key factor in the trust aspect. And when we recognised it was damaging our relationship we both immediately stopped. It did take some repair work too but it hadn’t irrevocably broken the trust in our relationship and we moved into a new phase of our relationship successfully.

It is interesting to read people’s opinions. I feel differently. I feel like one pp said that if you truly want to rebuild your relationship that you let him go and note how that makes you feel. I know people who’ve successfully remained together after affairs. In all those cases, there was sincere remorse and change and they moved onto almost a new relationship with each other rather than trying to get back the one they thought they had before the affair. By that I mean, there was recognition that the person they thought they were isn’t the person they actually are.

How you found out matters. How much of a surprise it was to you matters (is how duplicitous was he). Accepting that it happened and allowing the relationship to move on matters - rather than remaining in a place where you continually wish it hadn’t happened and you were living the life you would have had if it hadn’t happened. I think a lot of the time, people realise they don’t really like the person they now realise their partner is and that they wouldn’t choose them if they had their time again and that is often what impacts the ongoing damage. That leads to contempt. I suspect more relationships do successfully survive affairs that is realised because the people in them don’t m tell others about it. I suspect there are even more where people stay together but with the internalised animosity that destroys their family on the inside like pp have said.

I wish you all the very best with this. I think the important question is do you actually truly want this man in your life going forward.

I agree with the points raised here. How much work is he putting in? Would he still be continuing if you hadn’t found out - how did you find out?

Totally agree with all posters....

In addition to the fact that he shouldn't even have raised this and needs to take the responsibility of the decision not to go.... I wouldn't be surprised if he is playing a deeper game (even unconsciously). If you have to raise your discomfort or say you'd prefer he doesn't go, and he then cancels, then suddenly he thinks he has something great he did for you. So he's wanting to be in a win win situation - either he gets his holiday and he can say 'but you said I could go' or he 'sacrifices it' and it becomes 'you see, I gave that up for you - how can you question my commitment'.

You are carrying all the pain right now on his behalf. Pain of covering up what he did, meaning you are lacking support and feel turned into a fake. Pain of having to feel like the mean one denying him a holiday, or pain of feeling betrayed and insecure while he is on holiday..... he seems to be dealing with win wins, by contrast.

I'm sorry OP. You sound wonderful, wise, and caring.... I admire your desire to make sure you have tried. But I would set a time limit on it. As many of the stories in this thread show, a year can turn into ten or twenty, and miserable childhood for your kids very quickly.

After trying hard to recover from my Ex's affair, I left. It was about 12-18 months of medium level emotional disruption for my DD. I was able to protect her from a lot. With yours so young, I think you could protect them almost entirely. My DD is now extremely happy and well balanced (barring a little inevitable, unrelated teenage angst), with two happy parents and stable homes, and high quality contact with both of us. We are collaborative co parents. And because I asserted myself, I was able to let go of my anger, so there's no remaining tension. Her childhood was definitely not ruined.

I hope you find a way back to happiness as quickly as possible.

When your husband started this affair he absolutely knew there was a chance you would end your marriage. He also knew that if that happened he would also be seeing a lot less of his children. Yet he made that choice anyway.

The harsh reality is that you have been, and continue to be in a marriage with someone who is a lot less committed than you. Many betrayed spouses intuitively know this which is why many of them are afraid to set boundaries or to speak up.

Many men lose respect for wives who tolerate their cheating and bullshit and consider them fools. Any decisions you make now must be in your own best interests and you must treat yourself with respect, because he isn’t treating you with respect and he’s not going to while you tolerate him gallivanting off with a stag group.

Imagine how a man might deal with this, and do that.

I'm appalled that given the circumstances your husband has even suggested having his ski trip / stag piss up. It speaks volumes about his commitment to regaining your trust

Hi all. I posted this original thread about 7 months ago. Whilst I am certainly not over what happened by any stretch of the imagination, I feel I have definitely taken the first steps towards healing, I guess we both have, due to couples counseling. We have both thrown ourselves into that process, and learnt a lot about each other and about healing from this in the long term. So things are more positive, and I am in a much better place mentally and physically.

The reason I am posting is because I am struggling with something. So the woman who my husband emotionally betrayed me with (I hate that term btw) is very close friends with my sister in law, who lives next door. In short, this woman knows I know, as I confronted her at the time, she was warned to keep a wide berth from me at all times to which she agreed (apologised, was all a silly nonsense that got out of hand etc etc). Anyway that's another thread in itself which I won't go into now. I told noone at the time, and suffered in silence for 8 months before starting therapy as my marriage crumbled around me and I tried to keep it together for my two kids. Not having an outlet was the toughest part, as many days I wanted to just scream about what they had done. I didn't, and I know for our marriage to heal, it's best in the long term.
I did however, during a particularly tough few days, end up confiding in my husbands brother (lives next door). It's him and his wife who are best friends with this woman and her husband (I know).
I guess I needed to vent, but I also trust them to keep it to themselves and I thought it would reduce the amount of triggers (for example every time we were making progress my sister in law would mention her in conversation or whatever and it was just ruining a lot of family occasions as it's too soon for me to not be dragged back. It's not her fault, she had no idea about any of it). After the womans name kept coming up, my husband asked his brother to tell his wife what had happened as it was hindering progress. He spoke to him when I was there, told him not to play it down because it was wrong and had hurt me a lot etc. Bro in law agreed he would speak to wife and assured us we wouldn't have to deal with hearing about other woman again.

That was a couple of months ago, and since then, I arrived at my nephew's birthday party to find her there in a small room, completely shameless. I felt sick, heart racing, room spinning kind of sick, so i left, my husband stayed with our kids and his dad (at my request) as I didn't want to make a scene nor upset any of the kids. I felt hurt at my brother and sister in law but thought it's about the children and not for me to dictate that. But it was hard to take.

Then this weekend we were asked to mind their kids. No issue. But then I found out it was to facilitate them going out clubbing with guess who...

I just feel like this isn't ok. We have spent the past 15 months working our way out of a very dark place. With still a way to go. Yet she must think I'm a joke looking after next doors kids whilst they go out together. I've protected everyone in this, yes because long term it's better for my marriage but has this woman no fucking decency at all??

The other question is did my brother in law actually tell his wife, my sister in law, because if he did, then I'm disgusted at her lack of empathy at this point too.

Should I approach her and tell her exactly what's been going on? My husband said last night he's starting to think she doesn't know.

I should add my sis in law, who I've known 4 years, seems a very caring and level headed person (not at all like her mate).

On one hand it's more drama we don't need, but I'm not sure how much more of it I can stomach without causing a scene. I'm not asking for them to do anything different other than a bit of understanding and compassion. Am I asking too much?

I think you and your husband should tell your SIL together, if you can face it. This shouldn’t be on you. Your SIL might not end the friendship with this woman (though in your SIL’s shoes, I’d like to think I would) but she can at least ensure you don’t cross paths.

As for your H - a certain coarse expression about not defecating on your own doorstep comes to mind as regards his treacherous and disgusting behaviour when you were at your most vulnerable. But you know all that.

Does the woman’s husband know what happened? She sounds like a piece of work, too. Like your H.

Sorry for being so rude about your H. Just very angry on your behalf.

Need to be honest with family - as you and DH are working hard to move forwards. It is unreasonable for them to expose you to this woman anymore. You should not have to leave a family event because she is there - she's clearly not a nice person (or is hoping to create a split..... for some purpose of her own).