Walking on eggshells all the time ...

[Bellairen]

I never thought I'd be here posting for married age/ relationship advice but I feel like I need to get my thoughts out somewhere....

I've been married to my DH almost 10 years and together 14. We have a daughter almost 3 a dog and a cat so never a quiet moment ...

The last ....maybe year or so , it's felt like DH mood has really dipped ...maybe before that every so often there's be angry outbursts to be ( verbal not physical ....even the fact I'm writing to "justify" that makes me think there's something in how I'm feeling) ...

For example I'd get a short/ snappy curt response ...sometimes followed by what I can only describe as sulking/ silent treatment ...

I do think he struggles to manage anger / irritation and I'm seeing more .and more of this on a fairly or near daily basis ..again verbal but just unecessary and unpleasant anger and name calling for example at drivers ( not to them more under his breath) ..he just seems utterly angry and miserable ALL the time and it's taking a huge toll on me and our family ...

He seems to mainly be able to paint on a smile when little one is home but if it's just us and she is in nursery or my mum's he'll barely even say hello to me in the mornings, takes himself away to watch TV ( said he needed to do something on the computer the other night ..I walked in and he was finishing watching a film that had been on an hour and a half). God knows between toddler , pets, and work I KNOW the craving for mindless TV or half an hour to your own thoughts in peace ....

It just feels he never wants to spend time with me anymore , like he doesn't even like me let alone love me .

I've raised this with him a few times and it's resulted in arguments ( 2 particular stand out ones that felt like a total character assassination of me!). ... I even went as far as asking if he actually still wanted to be in this relationship ( because he certainly wasn't acting like it)..to which all I got was that I'm constantly over reacting and thinking the worst ....

But "the worst" to me would be carrying on like this for months and years ... I don't want my child growing up like this ...and I feel like I'm constantly walking on eggshells around his moods, sulking, 0% tolerance of tiny frustration ( less than the 3 year old sometimes!!)..

I do wonder if he's depressed ...but any questions of if he's okay just gets met with more irritation, eye roll or an unconvincing "I'm fine" .....( He's not !)

I'm absolutely exhausted with it all ...and while I'm sure I'm far from perfect ....I'm not spending my life walking on eggshells ...

I look around my home and marriage and I'm not sure what the hell has happened ....

has he ever given you any examples of "treating him like shit"?

Right @Bellairen well the grief about your future not been what you had planned can go because did you plan on living like this? Yours and your dd's world revolve entirely around his moods. You are not modelling a healthy relationship for her, she will end up with someone exactly like him which means she will spend her childhood and adulthood pacifying a man, you will notice her doing this with her dad as she gets older.
I'll be totally honest here and say I couldn't give a shit if he has depression. If he does, it does not give him an excuse to treat another human being poorly, nevermind his life partner! You were not put on this earth to spend your life like this. He is just a man, nothing special so why are you willing to live like this for him? Women are encouraged by society (and friends) to cling on to anyone as nothing is as bad as a single woman 🙄 there are other, nicer men available! It is such a waste, life should be filled with as much happiness and colour as possible.
At the very least have a look around to see what's available and go see a solicitor.

This is so sad. The earth has existed for 4.5 billion years and we only get 80 years on it. That's no time at all. Don't spend your precious few years feeling unhappy and on edge because of one shitty man. Even though leaving will be hard surely it can't be harder than living with that abuse every day? How could single life be worse??

If leaving feels too drastic and scary maybe break it down to smaller tasks: Seeing a lawyer. Looking at new places to live. Coming up with a budget based on your income. Putting his salary into the CM calculator. Instead of seeing it as one big step of leaving him, see it as lots of little steps towards freedom. Might that make it easier? Every time you encounter a challenge write down the challenge and the possible solutions so you don't get stuck.

Something occurs to me reading your posts. Firstly, that it seems impossible for you to see the wood for trees if you’re still in the woods. For example you know his behaviour makes you feel frightened and insecure, yet at the same time because you’re in that frame of mind, you fear trying to live differently (ie: moving out). On some level you know that the ‘kind’ thing to do for yourself is to separate from this man because every month that you stay with him hurts you more and more.

But, on another level, let’s suppose he is depressed and (being a bastard isn’t a natural state), he’s told you over and over that you are the cause of his state of mind, then surely moving out is helping him ?
Furthermore, let’s say that you move out and that brings about a catalyst for change in him (although that’s yet to be proved), there’s nothing to stop you from going back. Although I think I’d give myself a good six months/a year to clear my head and rid myself of the fear I’ve grown accustomed to. Definitely find the right therapist to help you work on your self esteem. You will benefit your child so much if you’re a strong, happy, independent person.

i could have written your post myself @Bellairen Bellairen. It is pretty much how my relationship is. I think it is emotionally abusive but for some reason the term abuse is just so hard to accept. And it is so hard to leave. I have a primary age daughter and even though I recognise our relationship is toxic for some reason I am still here as the change of moving out seems so daunting and I suspect he will behave worse when we split and will be very manipulative around my daughter.

I’ve been having counselling and she says it’s like the analogy of the boiling frog, which goes something like you adapt to the situation you find yourself in and expend all you energy dealing with the abuse that when you realise that the waters has got too hot you don’t have the energy left to jump out.

ultimately I know I need to leave but it’s a matter of timing. It’s almost like he needs to behave badly enough for me to justify leaving which I know isn’t the right way of looking at it. I’m not sure of the point of my post but I just wanted to say that I get it. I hope your muster up the courage!

Yes he has ... There is a list of them ...some i think fall into " thoughtless " but not intentional on my part ( don't want to be too outing in examples but think equivalent to every so often leaving wet towels on the floor or forgetting to refill loo roll )... Those aren't the examples but they fall into the " I'm thinking/ doing a hundred things at once, start something, mean to go back and sort it, child/ pet/ life interrupts and it drops out of my head)

The issue is it's then seem as me purposely and intentionally " not caring about him"

And some of the things just feel bizzare ( verging on paranoia) and unjustified ...

But I start to question myself ...if he feels so strongly maybe there's some truth there and it is me ...

Thank you , you are right this is not how imagined my future or family ( let alone how I want DD growing up) ...I think I'm grieving the husband I had ( or thought I had) a year ago ...and am desperately scrambling to try and "fix" and get back to that.
But I can't.

I have seen a solicitor so know where I stand legally , though not initiated anything. I've had several conversations about separating and me living elsewhere if he's really that miserable together ( met with " I'm the only one saying I want to separate, he doesn't)

I just don't understand what he wants or needs and maybe it's time for me to stop trying and think primarily what DD needs ...despite whatever she gets from him in terms of fun times and attention , the atmosphere is awful a lot of the time between him and I.

Counselling will not work with a man like this. Talking to him will not work either. Tying yourself up in knots thinking about the best words to use to finally get through to him will not work. Even if he's not actually a narcissist, he has narcissist traits. Please read about it. Manipulative, stonewalling, gaslighting, lack of empathy, angry outbursts, breadcrumbing you, twisting things, being the nice guy to other people, training you to walk on eggshells. It's very difficult to come to terms with the fact that you're in an abusive relationship but that's exactly what it is.

Thank you @MisschiefMaker
I certainly don't want to spend the rest of my life like this ( let alone DDs) and yet I question, often, whether abuse is a fair description ...as I feel so ground down I start to question is it really that bad? Have I done things to justifiably make him feel angry/ hurt ...I tie myself in knots ( not helpful to taking any action I know!)

Breaking it into small steps is a good idea though maybe more manageable ....

Please please make time to read that pdf the other poster recommended. Your confusion is palpable. The book / pdf is called ‘why does he do that?’. It will answer your questions, I promise. It changed my life.

Hi @Itsallaboutsmee
You're right, it's hard if not impossible to see the wood for the trees when I'm still in the situation...and a good point about getting so used to the fear that it translates to everywhere else.

The therapist I'm seeing is nice but I feel there's a lot of focus on what may be going on for DH and considering the "relationship" rather than the impact... I've questioned with them whether the behaviour is abusive and they seem quite on the fence ... I know I question myself a lot if it's bad "enough" to leave or if that's the only option...but deep down a lot of the behaviour in the past year has felt really abusive and quite purposeful/ intentional ..

I want to be that confident version of myself again ...I was that person,and yet I barely recognise me now compared to 18 months or so ago ...

@Bellairen if you barely recognise yourself from who you were 18 months ago, how will you be after another year of this? If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you e always got. If you don’t leave or get him to leave, you and your poor daughter will be even more traumatised. Stop TRYING - it takes two to make a marriage work and HE ISNT TRYING COS HE DOESNT LIKE YOU. And if he suddenly, miraculously changes, would you you trust that change to last - or be waiting on eggshells for him to revert…. This relationship is rotten to the core, he treats you like dirt and the only thing you should do is save yourself and your daughter. He is an adult and responsible for his actions.

Why does it need to be abusive for you to leave? You don't need to frame it that way if its a barrier for you. You are desperately unhappy and seemingly so is he, and he's unwilling to address it. It's ok to tell a therapist "I need to leave my husband and I need help getting to that place" you don't need anyone's permission to leave him, and if your therapist is more concerned with diagnosing him (?) Or trying to "fix" the relationship then they are not a good fit. You can't fix the relationship on your own and diagnosing his behavior won't do anything practical for you if he isn't going to do anything about it. Essentially, it doesn't matter what's going on with him because he's not trying to fix it.

I will ... Off to bed with a cuppa (DH out tonight) and have it on my phone to read.
Thank you and I'm glad it helped .

I know ( deep down) I'm in denial ( or at the very least ambivalent) about the term abuse ....and keep trying to find out what might have "caused it" (" what have I done/ could do to fix it?).

I wonder whether some of the lack of empathy / not getting it may also be a neurodiversity issue too ( not diagnosed but we both have sometimes wondered re this) ...not an excuse for the behaviour but I think it sometimes makes me question " can I really blame him this much if this is genuinely how he is "wired"?)

But I will look more into it too ..... All those things you describe have been constants ( on and off) our whole relationship but ramped up 10000% in the last year to 18 months ( perhaps even since D D was a year or so...more toddlering ( and mobile 😅) but I maybe didn't notice so much ....

The g

I know ... I keep thinking something will happen like a lightbulb and thenill somehow "know" and feel 100% certain u should leave (easier when he was being more "awful/ silent/ vitriolic" but I think I was in shock and reeling I almost was frozen and couldn't move/ take action ...
It feels harder to " justify" sometimes when he is being " nice" (?)(civil?) ...I start to question if I've maybe made a big deal of it and it's just what every marriage/ ling term relationship goes through at some point ...

I'm sorry that being treated with contempt and disdain has become your normal life, OP, so much so that you wonder if you're being irrational for questioning it.

Everything about your posts makes it clear that the relationship undermines you. And it's the self-doubt that keeps you in it. This is a vicious circle.

I was in a marriage like that for almost 20 years. How I found the courage and energy to leave it, when obviously he made it as hard as possible for me to do so (including by changing back to Mr Nice Guy the minute I really began to feel I was getting a grasp on how bad things were), I will never know. But let me assure you that it's worth it!

It's only when you're fully out of the situation that you begin to understand what was wrong. You can't possibly recognise half of it at the moment because you've come to expect this sort of treatment. I did, too.

I did eventually remarry, many years later, and am very happy. Whenever I read threads like this, it reminds me how miserable my life once was. It's actually astonishing what once passed for normal life. If you put me in that situation now I'd last about 5 minutes before thinking "bugger this for a lark" and making for the nearest exit.

You're right, it doesn't need that label ... I guess I'm just constantly second guessing whether things might somehow get back to "okay" and maybe the "to and fro" avoids me making any (scary and big) steps forward in terms of plans to leave ...

I think deep down I'm just reeling.... because I didn't feel he was this person..... I still can't quite believe what is happening or how he is behaving ( and justifying it as if it's completely normal to acknowledge your child but not your wife or act with such contempt towards someone you supposedly "love" for days/ weeks/ months).

You're right though, I cant fix it on my own ( I don't think he thinks there's anything for him to "fix" it's all on me and my faults ( as he sees it)... And honestly ....I'm not sure I even want to fix it ,( even though the next steps feel terrifying)

@Bellairen im sure you’re also aware that living ‘on your nerves’ like this is very bad for your physical health (your mental health is under serious strain as you already know). This man will never be the husband you long for, you’d be appalled if this was your daughter’s marriage so please don’t make this her childhood. You start to leave by taking small steps, one at a time. Say nothing to your dh (disgusting husband). You’ve tried long enough. At least admit to yourself your husband’s behaviour is abusive. Find a good divorce solicitor/speak to Women’s Aid/get your documents and your daughter’s in a safe place. The small steps will get you there. There’s also a thread on here by @Bluebeanbag, whose story sounds, sadly, so very like yours - but she escaped! Good luck 💐 and try and grey rock your dh in the n meantime.

Hi OP,
I just wanted to add my voice to all the posters giving you sage advice. I’ve been where you are now…walking on eggshells around a DH who treated me with contempt, and - like you - I couldn’t make things add up.

You keep waiting for the ‘old’ DH - or what you hope is the ‘real’ DH - to come back. The realisation you will come to is that the DH you have now is the real one and that the one you fell in love with was not his true self. This realisation is really painful. It makes you doubt yourself, but once you acknowledge that the ‘old DH’ is not coming back, you are liberated from feeling you should be the dutiful wife to the person that he is now. You owe no loyalty to this nasty, mean man that you live with now. He treats you with contempt!

Also, he is gaslighting you because he says he doesn’t want to separate, whilst simultaneously doing everything to make your life hell. What’s that about? He might even say he loves you, whilst being vicious and nasty. Of course this doesn’t add up. The only way it adds up is if you ask yourself: ‘What sort of person treats the person he is supposes to love with contempt, undermines her, makes false accusations, keeps her in a state of anxiety over what he might say or do next?’ The answer is: ‘A hate-filled abusive person who has no love or respect for his partner.’ That is the only (shocking) answer.

For a long time, I couldn’t believe in my heart that my ‘D’H hated me, even though he treated me as if he hated me. I remember saying to myself ‘It’s as if he hates me’, before I could actually understand that he DID hate me. It’s that whole ‘looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck - it IS a duck’.

This is about survival for you and your DD. He does not care for you. In time - and maybe with the help of Lundy Bancroft, you won’t spend so much time obsessing about the ‘Why’ - (I did that a lot, it’s definitely part of the process so perhaps there’s no avoiding all that why why why at the beginning). Eventually you will absolutely know that He. Won’t. Change. - therefore logically, the only way for this abuse to stop is for the marriage to end. It’s very tough, but it is true. And he should be the one to move out of the family home for the sake of your DD - can you work out a way for that scenario to play out?

Important - do you have someone/supportive family in real life that you can confide in? You need people that love you to hold you up and to verify that you’re not going mad. Female friends are wonderful.

My main piece of advice is to take very good care shopping around for a solicitor. Do not under-power this. You need a Rottweiler. If Rottweiler prowess is ultimately not needed, well fine, but you should have the necessary back-up.Tell her/him that you are in an abusive marriage and ask them what experience they have dealing with very hostile opposition. In my experience your H will try to be as obstructive as possible so your solicitor needs to be well-versed in how to deal with his extremes.

Good luck OP. You will get there.

It doesn't really I suppose ... I think I'm stalling in part because making such a big step into the unknown on my own also feels frightening, and huge ...
But no I can't fix any of it on my own or without any acknowledgement or effort from him . And maybe framing it more in that way is helpful .

Thank you , it's good to hear you are out the other side too as well as in a new relationship..
I feel like I'm recognising less and less what's "wrong" Vs what's " okay" as it's become so normalised/ constant over the last year ( plus) ...

And that when ( like this weekend actually ) it feels like the contempt/ disdain isn't there I question if it actually was or if I imagined it / overreacted.... Like I don't trust my judgement anymore . ..

I know ...I'm definitely feeling the impact both physical and mental health wise and I know that will only make it harder in the long run to leave. .and no I would hate for my daughter to be in a relationship anything like this, I'd be devastated ( not to mention want to march down there to the guy and read him the riot act!!!) ....

But for some reason I end up feeling stuck and frozen in terms of doing anything else. ..

I have the number for local women's aid but I feel overdramatic ringing them as there's never been any physical violence.

I will give @Bluebeanbag's thread a read too as I think it'll help seeing someone on the other side ...I need to remind myself there's a life beyond the state I'm living in right now. .

I really recognise the feelings you describe op. I was frozen and kept going back to try and fix things for so many years. Once I started on the path of leaving him, I also felt overdramatic and as if I was making a fuss about nothing (no physical violence here either).

I think the thing which convinced me that I was right and not being overdramatic was talking to my solicitor. She confirmed that the relationship was abusive and spoke to me in such a straightforward way about the practicalities of the situation that I felt validated and that I was finally doing the right thing. It seemed to really matter that a 'professional' had confirmed the abuse. I would definitely recommend an appointment with a good solicitor, if nothing else to just get it all straight in your head.

There is definitely a life beyond. I am now living that life and I can tell you absolutely everything has changed for me. The relief is indescribable. Rooting for you here 💐

Lovely one, I want to reassure you that even when you've been beaten up, you don't feel like the abuse is 'enough'. I remember saying to the Police that I didn't feel like it was abuse because he'd never put me in hospital, and they reminded me 'that's because you relocated your own jaw that night.' They'd watched me do it as I refused to go to hospital.

When you are in the midst of abuse, you do not recognise its seriousness. But trust me, to not walk on eggshells is such a joy, and 6 months out you will wonder how you didn't realise how badly you were being treated. I wasn't even afraid of the abuser, even though he beat my head against the wall every day for the last month (and then severely beat me 5 times in the last two weeks). It's a lie that 'at least if he hit me I'd know it's abuse'. No, you still find reasons why it isn't.

You do not want this eggshell-walking for life. My father tolerated it, and he died having never had a life of his own, because he sacrificed it to my controlling mother. Please do not do that.