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Original poster

Marriage before children.. ??

152 replies

1982mommaof4 · 14/01/2023 17:36

Reading another thread has made me wonder.. the people who say they must be married before having children, why?

Is this mostly down to religious beliefs?

Interested to know peoples reasons for this.

OP posts:
Emmamoo89 · 17/01/2023 13:33

category12 · 17/01/2023 13:21

But unfortunately it's quite normal for women who have followed this model to find themselves in a tight spot financially if the relationship breaks down. When being married might have made a difference.

It's fine to not get married or have a civil partnership and have children, if you're able to maintain your income level and independence. But if you become dependent on your partner, it can be a huge mistake.

People need to be clear about the protections they're giving up by treating marriage/civil partnership as irrelevant.

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I don't rely on my partner. Have my own income

Goodus · 17/01/2023 13:38

Coffeepot72 · 15/01/2023 20:54

For me it was fairly simple- I was only prepared to have a child with a man who was so sure that he wanted to be with me for the rest of our lives that he was willing to say so in front of witnesses and have it legally documented. Without that I simply would not have felt secure enough to have a child with him and I wasn’t interested in single parenting.

This

Relationships are disposable these days, this honestly wouldn't make me feel any more secure. Men can just divorce you...

Goodus · 17/01/2023 13:42

mydogisthebest · 17/01/2023 08:40

I think it's very weird to wait to get married because you want your children there. It's sensible to get married before having children

It doesn't make much difference if you do it before or after they're born. If you have such issues in a relationship where you split years after a child is born, then sticking the plaster of marriage on won't help, you'd just be getting divorced instead- which doesn't always go in your favour

(Not anti-marriage, hope to get married soon but it's not a magic wand)

category12 · 17/01/2023 16:03

Goodus · 17/01/2023 13:42

It doesn't make much difference if you do it before or after they're born. If you have such issues in a relationship where you split years after a child is born, then sticking the plaster of marriage on won't help, you'd just be getting divorced instead- which doesn't always go in your favour

(Not anti-marriage, hope to get married soon but it's not a magic wand)

Show quote history

It does make a difference, because maternity leave & early years with children are the very time it's most likely the woman will rely on her partner financially. It's the time she is most likely to need the financial and legal protections in the case of a split.

solarsystem87 · 17/01/2023 16:49

It was clear to my partner and me that we wanted to get married and have children. The order was only important to us in that we wanted to have a common family name for all of us. Otherwise, marriage has not changed very much for me.

Emmamoo89 · 17/01/2023 16:52

category12 · 17/01/2023 16:03

It does make a difference, because maternity leave & early years with children are the very time it's most likely the woman will rely on her partner financially. It's the time she is most likely to need the financial and legal protections in the case of a split.

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I relied on myself and income in maternity leave

category12 · 17/01/2023 17:00

Emmamoo89 · 17/01/2023 16:52

I relied on myself and income in maternity leave

Show quote history

Yes, you've said, a couple of times. In which case, what I'm saying may not be applicable to you.

But had you and your partner decided that one or other of you should reduce hours, become a sahp or otherwise make a career/income sacrifice while the other person took on more of a breadwinning role, that person would be better off being protected financially & legally by marriage or civil partnership.

Check1Check2 · 17/01/2023 17:04

Big mistake to not get married if you want children for all of the reasons other posters have listed.
A woman at work has had 2 kids with a bloke she’s been with for years, same old ‘I don’t need a piece of paper to prove I love you’ bollocks’. She’s now begging and crying him to marry her, it’s pitiful. He’s happy to have kids with her which is a far bigger commitment, than marry her. Mind boggles. He’s free to walk out/kick her out whenever he feels like it.

Parker231 · 17/01/2023 17:06

1982mommaof4 · 14/01/2023 18:11

Good point with having the same name, I remember feeling really uneasy having a different name to my whole family

Show quote history

We’ve been married nearly 27 years but I didn’t change my surname (why would I?) and DT’s have both our surnames as double barrelled. Having all the same surname doesn’t make a secure family anymore than different surnames.

Choconut · 17/01/2023 17:14

It was very important to me to get married before having a child. I wouldn't have a baby with anyone who's not prepared to marry me. I'm not religious.

2022again · 17/01/2023 19:02

cosmiccosmos · 17/01/2023 08:36

This thread is a great example of why we should all encourage our children to be independent. My view is that if you are in a strong position financially marriage doesn't make much difference except for 'feels'.

Spousal maintenance is long gone, women should ensure they protect themselves by going back to work and having higher expectations from the fathers in terms of childcare etc. You only have to look at the threads on here about how many men don't provide for their children, married or not.

I would be interested to see a thread on marriage for men, I'm sure many like being married but I expect the stats around it would show many aspects listed on this thread don't mean anything to them. Women would do well to think why this is. Why are so many women almost obsessed with the name change and being called 'Mrs' as if it's some kind of higher award that elevates them somehow.

It's lovely people get so excited about getting married, having their 'own unit', changing their name but things don't really change and women are kidding themselves if they think marriage gives them a lot of protection, it doesn't anymore (see CAB link from previous poster).

You are kind of presuming though that your financial position will never change…I went from full time independent earning to chronic illness and unable to work after having kids. Marriage still gives far more financial security…I worked in a hospice ,saw some horrible situations where people were left in financial dire straits ,even homeless, when their long term partner dies. You aren’t even entitled to register your partners death if you aren’t married. Do people realise that unless you have all your legal ducks in a row that your partners assets if held in their name would not go to the remaining partner. Even if you are married and you don’t have a will it can cause cash flow issues as it’s automatically split with any dependants and needs to go through probate .Hence why our hospice vicar did weddings on the ward as part of her job as people realise why it’s important! p.s.,many professionals,myself included,keep their names,I doubt this is a reason to get married. children born to married parents are also more likely to reach adulthood with their parents still together compared to cohabiting couples which I think shows the value of marriage.

Original poster
1982mommaof4 · 17/01/2023 20:07

mydogisthebest · 17/01/2023 08:40

I think it's very weird to wait to get married because you want your children there. It's sensible to get married before having children

I think it's down to each individual, most of my friend married after having children. I really am struggling to see what's weird about it

OP posts:
Emmamoo89 · 17/01/2023 20:21

1982mommaof4 · 17/01/2023 20:07

I think it's down to each individual, most of my friend married after having children. I really am struggling to see what's weird about it

Show quote history

I'm struggling to see it too.

category12 · 17/01/2023 20:41

It's weird to me because it misses the main point of marriage, which is the pooling of resources/responsibilities, and turns it into something you're just doing for the look/nice day out.

Original poster
1982mommaof4 · 17/01/2023 20:42

category12 · 17/01/2023 20:41

It's weird to me because it misses the main point of marriage, which is the pooling of resources/responsibilities, and turns it into something you're just doing for the look/nice day out.

What point in my post did it say I was doing it for the look. I married my husband because I love him, thats what marriage is to me. It has nothing to do with how it looked 🤔

OP posts:
Original poster
1982mommaof4 · 17/01/2023 20:43

category12 · 17/01/2023 20:41

It's weird to me because it misses the main point of marriage, which is the pooling of resources/responsibilities, and turns it into something you're just doing for the look/nice day out.

To me your main point of marriage differs from mine. Like I said down to the individual

OP posts:
category12 · 17/01/2023 20:51

Of course it's a celebration of love as well, but it is a legally and financially significant decision.

Too many people seem to think they have the rights given by marriage or civil partnership and find themselves in a mess when they find they don't. Like tons of threads of women on threads here.

EllieQ · 17/01/2023 21:30

1982mommaof4 · 17/01/2023 20:07

I think it's down to each individual, most of my friend married after having children. I really am struggling to see what's weird about it

Show quote history

It seems weird to me because if you know that you want to get married and you know that you want to have children, why not get married first, as it’s the easier thing to do in terms of time/ effort/ cost?

However, I can see that my decision to get married first was mainly influenced by making my (traditional, religious) mum happy, having more disposable income to pay for the wedding, and the fact that getting married before children is the ‘cultural norm’ for me - as I mentioned, almost all family and friends all got married first. You mentioned that most of your friends had children first @1982mommaof4 - do you think this influenced your decision as having children first was what most people that you know did?

Original poster
1982mommaof4 · 17/01/2023 22:00

@EllieQ I absolutely think this. My mum was a single mum and I think this has played a part.

OP posts:
Original poster
1982mommaof4 · 17/01/2023 22:02

category12 · 17/01/2023 20:51

Of course it's a celebration of love as well, but it is a legally and financially significant decision.

Too many people seem to think they have the rights given by marriage or civil partnership and find themselves in a mess when they find they don't. Like tons of threads of women on threads here.

I really do see your point, it just wasn't something I considered when getting married.

I will definitely have the conversation with my children if they choose to sacrifice a career to be a parent, or will be the lower earner in the relationship

OP posts:
SueVineer · 17/01/2023 22:08

Coxspurplepippin · 16/01/2023 23:21

Plenty of instances of this - promise of marriage at some misty point in the future, have children anyway, marriage promise fades into oblivion, relationship ends, woman shafted.

Nothing to do with moral issues for most, but legal and financial protection. We're still not equal. It's women's careers and finances that suffer once children are added to the mix. A legal marriage provides extra protection.

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That’s not true. I was not married and as the higher earner I was better off. I find the idea of mn that women should marry for financial security offensive. We should be encouraging our daughters to provide for themselves not marry some rich guy.

SueVineer · 17/01/2023 22:12

Many professional women marry after kids - if you can support yourself it’s not such a big deal

Catnary · 17/01/2023 22:35

SueVineer · 17/01/2023 22:08

That’s not true. I was not married and as the higher earner I was better off. I find the idea of mn that women should marry for financial security offensive. We should be encouraging our daughters to provide for themselves not marry some rich guy.

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Did you not think that your partner deserved financial security?

imagine if a man said “ I was not married so I was better off”.

Kokeshi123 · 18/01/2023 00:03

SueVineer · 17/01/2023 22:12

Many professional women marry after kids - if you can support yourself it’s not such a big deal

The data on the subject suggests that the correlation is overwhelmingly the other way though - professional women still mostly marry (and therefore get both kinds of security). Drifting into cohabiting parenthood is mostly happening among less educated women - who are the ones who stand to lose most if the relationship breaks down (and the large majority of parents who never marry do split up by the time their eldest is 16).

TedMullins · 18/01/2023 00:40

SueVineer · 17/01/2023 22:08

That’s not true. I was not married and as the higher earner I was better off. I find the idea of mn that women should marry for financial security offensive. We should be encouraging our daughters to provide for themselves not marry some rich guy.

Show quote history

I agree young girls need the message to be independence and creating their own financial security (and a partner as a nice addition to their life, not a prerequisite). But by the same token then it’s also fair if men decide they wont marry women who earn less than them too.