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Original poster

Marriage before children.. ??

152 replies

1982mommaof4 · 14/01/2023 17:36

Reading another thread has made me wonder.. the people who say they must be married before having children, why?

Is this mostly down to religious beliefs?

Interested to know peoples reasons for this.

OP posts:
Emmamoo89 · 16/01/2023 16:09

EllieQ · 16/01/2023 14:54

There were various reasons:

  • Legal and financial.
  • It felt the the ‘right’ order to do things.
  • Made my mum happier as she was quite religious and traditional.
  • Peer group influence - almost all my friends were married before children. Didn’t think about this at the time, but looking back made me realise this.
  • More time/ money/ energy for organising a wedding before children.
  • Related to that, not having to think about childcare for the wedding/ honeymoon.

I also can’t understand the idea of wanting your children at the wedding, before you’ve even had them.

Eh?! Nothing wrong wanting your kids at your wedding and nothing wrong wanting it before you even have kids.

EllieQ · 16/01/2023 16:43

Emmamoo89 · 16/01/2023 16:09

Eh?! Nothing wrong wanting your kids at your wedding and nothing wrong wanting it before you even have kids.

Show quote history

I can see I wasn’t very clear in what I wrote. There’s nothing wrong with wanting your children at your wedding, and I can see that you might want to wait until they’re older and can be part of the ceremony.

What I found puzzling was putting off getting married because you want your children at the wedding, before you’ve even had any children, which is what the OP said she had done.

Emmamoo89 · 16/01/2023 17:21

EllieQ · 16/01/2023 16:43

I can see I wasn’t very clear in what I wrote. There’s nothing wrong with wanting your children at your wedding, and I can see that you might want to wait until they’re older and can be part of the ceremony.

What I found puzzling was putting off getting married because you want your children at the wedding, before you’ve even had any children, which is what the OP said she had done.

Show quote history

I knew what you meant and nothing wrong with that way of thinking. If you know you want children with your partner and wanting to get married there's nothing wrong in thinking you want to have kids at the ceremony before having them.

Original poster
1982mommaof4 · 16/01/2023 18:32

Sorry mate response... always knew I wanted children and my image of getting married included them being there.

I never considered financial security naïve, I know that now.

I was just thinking about marrying someone I loved. I wasn't marrying him for financial security because I never doubted he would provide for me.

I do completely understand what everyone is saying, it just wasn't in my mind when thinking about getting married

OP posts:
2022again · 16/01/2023 19:26

As a child conceived out of marriage (and from a long line of kids conceived outside marriage!) I always felt my parents only ended up married because of me….if they’d done it the traditional way I think they may have realised they weren’t suited before they chose to have kids! ( ditto for my grandparents!)So it was really important for me to be married first and know my husband was committing to me for myself not just because he’d got me pregnant.

category12 · 16/01/2023 20:45

1982mommaof4 · 16/01/2023 18:32

Sorry mate response... always knew I wanted children and my image of getting married included them being there.

I never considered financial security naïve, I know that now.

I was just thinking about marrying someone I loved. I wasn't marrying him for financial security because I never doubted he would provide for me.

I do completely understand what everyone is saying, it just wasn't in my mind when thinking about getting married

But no-one ever thinks "oh this person I love is going to turn round and have an affair or abuse me or fall out of love with me and leave me up shit creek financially", do they? Most people go in thinking the relationship will work and their partner will act in joint interests.

If it does work, great, but when it doesn't, too often it's women who end up screwed over financially.

Dacadactyl · 16/01/2023 21:18

category12 · 16/01/2023 20:45

But no-one ever thinks "oh this person I love is going to turn round and have an affair or abuse me or fall out of love with me and leave me up shit creek financially", do they? Most people go in thinking the relationship will work and their partner will act in joint interests.

If it does work, great, but when it doesn't, too often it's women who end up screwed over financially.

Show quote history

Lol I thought very hard about the worst case scenario before getting married. That was one of the reasons I got married....so that our daughter and I would be in a better financial position if the SHTF.

Original poster
1982mommaof4 · 16/01/2023 21:29

@category12 my point exactly, I genuinely did not consider worse case scenario, that's why marriage before children wasn't something that was important to me

OP posts:
TedMullins · 16/01/2023 21:43

If people (not just you, OP) don’t consider the legal side of marriage/worst case scenario, do they just…not know what marriage really is? It baffles me. Of course I get the romantic declaration of love etc but surely you also realise marriage a legal union of assets? Do people really not know that?

category12 · 16/01/2023 21:56

1982mommaof4 · 16/01/2023 21:29

@category12 my point exactly, I genuinely did not consider worse case scenario, that's why marriage before children wasn't something that was important to me

I hope that you teach your kids to think about it more practically.

purpledalmation · 16/01/2023 22:01

Two words. Financial security

Original poster
1982mommaof4 · 16/01/2023 22:19

TedMullins · 16/01/2023 21:43

If people (not just you, OP) don’t consider the legal side of marriage/worst case scenario, do they just…not know what marriage really is? It baffles me. Of course I get the romantic declaration of love etc but surely you also realise marriage a legal union of assets? Do people really not know that?

I genuinely think there are people like me out there, that just don't think of it like that.

I deep down always knew but it never crossed my mind when getting married or even now.. hence the thread 🫣

OP posts:
FirstHusband · 16/01/2023 22:34

Man here. I had no idea that I was next of kin to my father who had been with his partner for 25 years. I didn't know whether they were married or not, but found myself expected to make medical decisions for him.

We had a lot of unresolved issues and had I wanted to be vindictive, I could have cut her out of proceedings entirely.

I am married and the high-earning career that my wife was devoted to couldn't hold a candle to our newborn. Twenty years later, she earns a quarter of what she earned then. Negative equity and a number of recessions might have influenced me to jump ship had we not been married first.

As I earn more than ten times as much as her and pay all the bills, I'd say that marriage - which didn't make much difference when we did it - has been an excellent financial decision for her. I still think she's a keeper.

Original poster
1982mommaof4 · 16/01/2023 23:14

FirstHusband · 16/01/2023 22:34

Man here. I had no idea that I was next of kin to my father who had been with his partner for 25 years. I didn't know whether they were married or not, but found myself expected to make medical decisions for him.

We had a lot of unresolved issues and had I wanted to be vindictive, I could have cut her out of proceedings entirely.

I am married and the high-earning career that my wife was devoted to couldn't hold a candle to our newborn. Twenty years later, she earns a quarter of what she earned then. Negative equity and a number of recessions might have influenced me to jump ship had we not been married first.

As I earn more than ten times as much as her and pay all the bills, I'd say that marriage - which didn't make much difference when we did it - has been an excellent financial decision for her. I still think she's a keeper.

I can relate to this.. no career would have stopped me being a SAHM or working less hours in a less demanding role. I am now trying to kickstart my career again and it is difficult.

I am also now in the mindset after this thread marrying my DH was a good financial decision 😂

OP posts:
Coxspurplepippin · 16/01/2023 23:21

babeB · 14/01/2023 17:54

I get what PPs are saying. But then the issue is marriage or no marriage at all, not marriage before children. That makes it sound like a shame/decency matter.

As in, if after children you then get married, it's not an issue. The 'issue' only arises if marriage is never on the cards.

Plenty of instances of this - promise of marriage at some misty point in the future, have children anyway, marriage promise fades into oblivion, relationship ends, woman shafted.

Nothing to do with moral issues for most, but legal and financial protection. We're still not equal. It's women's careers and finances that suffer once children are added to the mix. A legal marriage provides extra protection.

Kokeshi123 · 17/01/2023 08:09

Eh?! Nothing wrong wanting your kids at your wedding and nothing wrong wanting it before you even have kids.

It's not the "your kids being at the wedding per se" that is weird. What is weird is making the conscious choice to put off marriage for that reason - as if having cute kid pictures/atmosphere on the wedding day is more important than proof of commitment from the father and proper legal protection for the woman and her child.

If a spouse's (or both spouses') kids are there for another reason - because it's a second marriage, or because the couple legally married years ago and then had the ceremony several years later - then of course it's not weird.

cosmiccosmos · 17/01/2023 08:36

This thread is a great example of why we should all encourage our children to be independent. My view is that if you are in a strong position financially marriage doesn't make much difference except for 'feels'.

Spousal maintenance is long gone, women should ensure they protect themselves by going back to work and having higher expectations from the fathers in terms of childcare etc. You only have to look at the threads on here about how many men don't provide for their children, married or not.

I would be interested to see a thread on marriage for men, I'm sure many like being married but I expect the stats around it would show many aspects listed on this thread don't mean anything to them. Women would do well to think why this is. Why are so many women almost obsessed with the name change and being called 'Mrs' as if it's some kind of higher award that elevates them somehow.

It's lovely people get so excited about getting married, having their 'own unit', changing their name but things don't really change and women are kidding themselves if they think marriage gives them a lot of protection, it doesn't anymore (see CAB link from previous poster).

mydogisthebest · 17/01/2023 08:40

I think it's very weird to wait to get married because you want your children there. It's sensible to get married before having children

Emmamoo89 · 17/01/2023 09:55

mydogisthebest · 17/01/2023 08:40

I think it's very weird to wait to get married because you want your children there. It's sensible to get married before having children

It's really not weird. I think its lovely to want your children there. Millions of people have kids before marriage. It's normal

Emmamoo89 · 17/01/2023 09:56

Kokeshi123 · 17/01/2023 08:09

Eh?! Nothing wrong wanting your kids at your wedding and nothing wrong wanting it before you even have kids.

It's not the "your kids being at the wedding per se" that is weird. What is weird is making the conscious choice to put off marriage for that reason - as if having cute kid pictures/atmosphere on the wedding day is more important than proof of commitment from the father and proper legal protection for the woman and her child.

If a spouse's (or both spouses') kids are there for another reason - because it's a second marriage, or because the couple legally married years ago and then had the ceremony several years later - then of course it's not weird.

I have a son. Will be having a second child. Won't be getting married. Used to want it. Now not bothered

Maryquitecontrary55 · 17/01/2023 10:03

Culturally, I didn't even consider having children before marriage. I didn't even think of it as an option. I'm from a conservative Irish middle class background. I find the idea of waiting to have your kids at the wedding like something from another planet to be honest. It's so alien to me.

EllieQ · 17/01/2023 10:49

Maryquitecontrary55 · 17/01/2023 10:03

Culturally, I didn't even consider having children before marriage. I didn't even think of it as an option. I'm from a conservative Irish middle class background. I find the idea of waiting to have your kids at the wedding like something from another planet to be honest. It's so alien to me.

That’s how I feel too. I’m from an Irish Catholic background (Irish grandparents who moved to the UK), and all the weddings I went to while I was growing up (1980s/ 90s) were before the couple had had children. Same thing happened when my sisters / cousins started getting married (2000s) so the idea of getting married after having children didn’t seem like an option. Not in a moral/ shameful way, just that it wasn’t the done thing.

Likewise, when my friends started getting married, all the weddings I went to were before the couple had children (though not all of them were religious). I knew one couple who had a baby just after university and got married a couple of years later, but they were pretty open about the fact the baby was unplanned (though welcomed!).

I’ve only been to two weddings where the couple already had children, which were both relatives of my DH.

I wonder if the people like the OP who planned to have children then get married grew up with family and friends who did this, so it was the norm for them?

Apairofsparklingeyes · 17/01/2023 13:10

If you move in together, it’s a commitment to the landlord to pay the rent and bills. Buying a home is a commitment to the mortgage company. Having a baby is a commitment to raising the child. Marriage or civil partnership is the only real commitment you can ever make to each other.

category12 · 17/01/2023 13:21

Emmamoo89 · 17/01/2023 09:55

It's really not weird. I think its lovely to want your children there. Millions of people have kids before marriage. It's normal

Show quote history

But unfortunately it's quite normal for women who have followed this model to find themselves in a tight spot financially if the relationship breaks down. When being married might have made a difference.

It's fine to not get married or have a civil partnership and have children, if you're able to maintain your income level and independence. But if you become dependent on your partner, it can be a huge mistake.

People need to be clear about the protections they're giving up by treating marriage/civil partnership as irrelevant.

CornishGem1975 · 17/01/2023 13:23

Nobody I know who got married before having children did it for financial reasons.