Estrangement from adult child

[DesperateParent]

I am trying to find some advice to help me with a really heartbreaking situation that has completely destroyed my family.

My darling DD1, who is at university, has decided to cut off all contact with me and her dad. This came pretty much out of the blue - one day we were exchanging jokey WhatsApp messages as normal, the next I got an odd message that I didn't really know how to respond to so I kept it light, then silence for a bit, then a nasty but vague email in weird formal language basically accusing us of abusing her throughout her childhood. She won't enter into any discussions, says she has seen a counsellor at university and doesn't consider us her parents any more.

We are totally devastated and have no idea what brought this on. Her email was vague, but nothing specific she says is true. We also find it hard to believe a counsellor would encourage her to cut herself off without knowing any background, but maybe that's what they do?

This all happened a year ago, soon after we took her back to university after the Christmas break, and I've been barely functioning since. When we left her at her accommodation, she was completely normal - laughing at me trying not to cry as I left her there, as usual. I contacted someone at the university whose name I remember being mentioned when she started who said he couldn't even confirm or deny to me that she was a student, but that he would always check on a student if a parent were concerned - hypothetically, of course. He was actually very nice while not being able to really tell me anything, but made it clear he would only be able to help if the student asked for help. We were hoping she would eventually recover from whatever she was going through and would get back in touch, but I got another nasty email the other day demanding that I stop sending her money. I presume she has managed to declare herself as independent as far as the student loans people are concerned and has told them she has no contact with us - would they just believe her without checking? We have been sending money monthly since she started.

She tells me in this email that if I reply she will block me - she 'requires' me to just stop the money as she demands. I don't know what to do - in a way she has given me an incentive to write back, as it makes no difference as either way I can't write again. She has already blocked me on WhatsApp and I don't know where she is living. Whatever she says or does, I don't want to stop supporting her as I'm pretty sure she hasn't thought ahead to the fact that she loses all financial support the minute she leaves university. Has anyone been in this situation? Is there any hope I will see my daughter again? Our whole family is in a complete mess because of this. DD1 will speak to her little sister and her cousin, but DD2 feels like she is walking on eggshells trying not to bring up important subjects, and I feel bad about her having to deal with this at the age of 16.

DD1 has a background of mental health issues (particularly in 6th form) and has always struggled to make friends and interact with other people. She is very unlikely to ask anyone for help and I don't know what prompted her to see the university counsellor. I seem to have spent 20 years trying to hold her together and fight off the bullies on her behalf - she seemed so well for the first year and a half at university, then this sudden change.

Sorry this is so rambling, I don't know where to turn.

No one cuts off a parent lightly. No one.
It depends what you mean by "lightly." Injured pride and moral indignation, among other feelings, can be overwhelmingly intense at a young age.

Family estrangement is on the rise. There's actually a charity called StandAlone, funded by the National Lottery, that supports people who have gone NC. Their advice for parents is here.

Whilst that is true to a degree, it's not all of it. I'm aware as an adult that my mother can't help being a mess, mentally. It's not her fault that she was badly abused as a child then made a hasty ill-advised marriage to escape, then had an autistic kid who took after her husband's family instead of hers and was thus hard for her to understand, especially since she's damaged enough to be incapable of love (her drunken words).

I forgive her for my childhood. She probably couldn't do much better. But I absolutely do not have to take the abuse any more.

I tried explaining calmly what my issues were and it went about as well as it sounds like OP's daughter's did. Fifteen years later and she still talks about how I attacked her out of nowhere and nearly drove her and my dad to suicide. As if.

So I limit contact. I'm old and independent enough not to need full NC. Plus I've managed to make myself uninteresting enough that she's found better targets.

So in summary, she may have tried her best but if that best was damaging there us NO reason for her daughter to remain in contact/within the abuse.

For me it's the other way around. I forgave a lot when I was younger but now I'm a bit wiser can see better the damage they caused for me and my siblings. Somewhat physical. Mostly neglectful and emotional. I'm not completely NC but just don't make an effort to call - and neither do they. I know its not me as both my siblings feel the same way.

To be honest, abusers including parents are often not aware of the damage they are doing, do not 'recognise' it as abuse and would say they offered their children a loving and happy childhood.

Slapping and hitting young children that can not defend themselves in any way can leave lasting harm, the loss of trust and confidence alone will damage the relationship even if the child seems to shrug off the slaps/violence.

Parents are also teaching their child that it is okay for other people to hurt them and harm them when angered. It is setting a precedent for them to hit and be hit, after all Mum/Dad do it, so it must be okay. It is not okay. The same children are more likely to be involved in negative or violent marriages and relationships, coercion and other dysfunction or they may choose to be alone to feel safr. They will suffer lower self esteem, lower confidence levels and are more likely to self harm and suffer mental health issues.

No one is saying that any one on here has caused massive harm to their children, I am just pointing out that something that may feel nothing much to a a parent can be (very) harmful to a small child. Quite frankly if you do nothing else for your child, growing up in a non violent home where a child's body is not used as a discipline mechanism would be best for them.

Threads like this are always so upsetting to read. The sheer amount of people who just fundamentally do not understand what it's like to have abusive/toxic/dysfunctional parents but feel perfectly qualified to minimize others experiences and essentially chalk it all up to immaturity, wanting to be a victim for attention, and too much introspection (whatever that means). They agree its okay to go NC with a parent if there was "real" abuse (big of them), but the criteria for what constitutes "real" abuse is conveniently quite high. Forgetting that often a lower level constant drip of meanness and criticism over decades can be just as toxic and hard to live with. And why should any of us live with that simply because of shared blood? Apparently some even believe that adult children cannot judge their relationship with their parents until they are at least mid 50's and have raised at least one child to adulthood. Very convenient.

Anyway, I sincerely hope the OP does not listen to those suggesting hiring a PI to invade the daughters privacy, or showing up uninvited to try to force contact. It's pouring petrol onto an already burning flame. With some time and distance hopefully tensions will ease enough to allow some dialogue, and I sincerely hope that is the case. In the meantime, I hope the OP is able to seek support for herself in whatever way works for her.

@Eatingjumper I had a toxic parent and went NC for some time when I was in my 40s. But I think deciding this at the age of 18 or 19, when you have never lived away from home before and are finding your feet as an adult, is fraught with risk. Impatience to stop being treated like a child can intensify other resentments, and there are a lot of new influences at uni such as drugs and strong personalities.

I absolutely understand the pain of someone wanting distance from their parents, but OP's pain is also valid. As a mother, it is a difficult line to tread between respecting your child's wishes and being assured of their safety.

Well, it's lucky for the daughter that she gets to decide what is and is not acceptable in her own life and not mumsnet or her parents. She may regret it, there may be risks, or it might be exactly the right thing for her to do - it is her choice to make. None of that means that the OP's situation is not awful and very, very hard. But daughter has been clear with her, has resolutely refused any money or other kinds of support, I cant see anywhere in OP's comments details showing daughter is trying to bully or abuse OP - she simply wants out. Her decision has to be respected regardless of how much it might hurt or worry her parents. All OP can do is work on herself and keep the door open for the future.

Apparently some even believe that adult children cannot judge their relationship with their parents until they are at least mid 50's and have raised at least one child to adulthood. Very convenient

Eatingjumper First of all, I said I personally would not judge my parents until I had reached a certain age and raised young adults myself because it is good sometimes to be familiar with both sides of the coin before you bite in to it.

I very much stand by this point and it’s not either convenient or inconvenient, it’s my opinion based on my own experience as a mother of teen and of young adults and also as the daughter of a mother who dealt out some quite harsh parenting.

By saying “very convenient” are you suggesting that I have been cruel or abusive to my own dc? And have you deduced that solely because you disagree with my opinions on this subject? You don’t know me or my parenting ethos. But you think it is ok to say that because my opinion differs to yours?

Parenting is far from easy. No one can parent without making many mistakes. Ones you know all too well and try and work on. And mistakes of which you are completely unaware. I know I have made plenty.

I know that many of the mistakes I made and make stem from anxiety or concern for my teen or young adult. That doesn’t make them right. But I am open about this to my dc.

You know what, mothers’ opinions have validity too. I agree with Alcmeg when she says,

“I absolutely understand the pain of someone wanting distance from their parents, but OP's pain is also valid. As a mother, it is a difficult line to tread between respecting your child's wishes and being assured of their safety.”

@Neveryoureye77 does seeing things differently as an adult change how you felt as a child, though? How you felt as a child is set in stone. It happened. It can't be changed.

So I think, a lot of the time, it's not about having a better understanding after you've raised your own children, but rather needing to forgive your own parents because you want your own children to forgive you for your mistakes.

@Neveryoureye77

''Personally I would now never assess my own parents or anyone else’s parenting until I had raised teens and young adults myself and was at least mid-fifties in age, because I think you need that long term perspective to make an accurate assessment.''

What a lot of nonsense.

People who are raised by toxic, abusive, neglectful, over controlling and manipulative parents are perfectly able to make an ''assessment'' of the lasting, negative impact they had on their lives.

They don't need to wait until they become parents (not everyone wants kids anyway) or reach a specific age.

People who go no contact don't usually do that lightly.

They are not going no contact because their mum did not buy them a pony, refused them a sweet or might have raised her voice because she was tired coming back from work.

They do it because their parents caused them repeated, serous physical and mental harm when they were growing up and because they continue to do so even when they are adults.

Being a parent does not automatically mean you have the best interest of your child at heart.

People need accept that, rather than always thinking that all parents are by default ''trying their best'', which is just a licence to abuse and never face any consequence for neglect.

People who are raised by toxic, abusive, neglectful, over controlling and manipulative parents are perfectly able to make an ''assessment'' of the lasting, negative impact they had on their lives. ... They are not going no contact because their mum did not buy them a pony, refused them a sweet or might have raised her voice because she was tired coming back from work. They do it because their parents caused them repeated, serious physical and mental harm when they were growing up and because they continue to do so even when they are adults.
I think we're on the same page. Assuming that OP's DD left for uni at the age of 18, the above does not yet apply.

Similarly
a lower level constant drip of meanness and criticism over decades can be just as toxic and hard to live with
How many decades of OP's toxic cruelty are you visualising her DD has endured?

Does anyone have the right to distance themselves from their parents, based on their own assessment of blame and forgiveness, which no one else can challenge? Of course.

Is it a bit early to do that within 5 minutes of leaving home for the first time? I think so, unless the situation mirrors that of unfortunate PPs who have described particularly abject childhoods.

Is it fair for strangers on the internet to assume the very worst of a mother grieving the loss of her daugher and trying to understand/deal with it? Erm, I don't think so.

BadNomad yes I genuinely think seeing things differently as an adult does change how you felt as a child. And that’s how you grow in maturity.

Because as you parent yourself your perspective changes - you get to understand how difficult it is , probably the most difficult thing anyone can do - and you perhaps repeat the same mistakes that your parents made and also improve in some areas too, so you come to understand some of the reasons why your parents behaved as they did. And with that understanding comes forgiveness.

For example my parents’ childhoods were dominated by the Second World War. They were both evacuated. They had to be hyper-independent at an early age. There wasn’t a lot of room in their lives for gentleness or statements about love but there was an emphasis on self-discipline and contributing in practical ways. Those attributes helped them survive an adverse experience and they naturally prioritised those qualities in their style of parenting.

I would be very lacking in compassion if I held that against them because they were naturally instilling in us what had helped them! And you come to understand that they mostly did the best they could with the knowledge and resources they had available to them at the time.

yes I genuinely think seeing things differently as an adult does change how you felt as a child. And that’s how you grow in maturity.

That isn't possible. It may change how you feel about it as an adult, but it doesn't change the childhood you had or the damage it caused up until your realisation. You felt how you felt at the time, and that is still just as valid as what you feel now. My mum did all kinds of messed up stuff as I was growing up. Now, I can understand it was due to mental illness, but that doesn't change how awful it was nor does it undo the impact it caused in my young adulthood. It is an explanation, but it is not an excuse.

I don’t think it’s nonsense. And again I don’t know how many times I have to say it, I am not referring to parents who are toxic, abusive and neglectful.

I am talking about the majority of us who try our best, fail, then try again. The imperfect mother who loses their temper. The imperfect mother who is tired at the end of the working day and says something too sharply or inadvertently causes a child to doubt themselves by being overly controlling. Or the parent who puts too much pressure on a child to study because they are afraid they won’t find a job.

The typical mother who earns money, cleans the house, cooks dinners, packs lunches, does the school run, takes their dc to extra curricular activities, facilities friendships, supports study and university choices, and in the middle of all of that tries to listen and nurture the important emotional aspects of a child’s well-being but sometimes falls short.

Most of us have, are and will, make many parenting mistakes.

Again Alcemeg puts it so well,

Is it fair for strangers on the internet to assume the very worst of a mother grieving the loss of her daugher and trying to understand/deal with it? Erm, I don't think so.

We will have to respectfully disagree with one another on this. I think having some degree of understanding as to what lies behind parental motivations and behaviour might help us to be more forgiving in certain situations. Not all of them, but as I have said repeatedly , I am speaking up for the averagely imperfect mother.

We can choose to continue to see our childhoods through the eyes of a child, or we can look at them through the perspective of an adult and say “yes, this or that aspect was utterly crap and miserable at the time, and it still affects me negatively now, I can or cannot understand why my parent behaved the way they did, I will do my best to ensure that I don’t make the same mistake with my own dc”.

That’s all we can do surely?

*I am talking about the majority of us who try our best, fail, then try again. The imperfect mother who loses their temper. The imperfect mother who is tired at the end of the working day and says something too sharply or inadvertently causes a child to doubt themselves by being overly controlling. Or the parent who puts too much pressure on a child to study because they are afraid they won’t find a job.

The typical mother who earns money, cleans the house, cooks dinners, packs lunches, does the school run, takes their dc to extra curricular activities, facilities friendships, supports study and university choices, and in the middle of all of that tries to listen and nurture the important emotional aspects of a child’s well-being but sometimes falls short.*

People dont go NC with this type of parent though. There is an enormous amount of social and emotional pressure to not go NC. It's a thing people do as a last resort, not because their parents were imperfect.

There’s numerous first hand accounts under this post about people going NC for no real reason though.

My own brother is NC, he is lazy and blames everyone but himself for his failings. When my parents stopped financially supporting him and taking his abuse without question, he started blaming them too and went NC as another means of control and punishment. Some NC children are just arseholes who are disgruntled when their victims say enough.

Jeezo, you read my post and think I am saying you have personally been cruel or abusive to your children?? I am simply trying to point out the harm that opinions like you shared can do, and actually while we are at it, how ridiculous it was - does a childless adult in their 60's never get to decide that their parents were abusive? Absurd. I think those opinions are convenient because they move goalposts to a point in time that children from abusive or toxic homes cannot ever seem to get to. Absolutely invalidating people left, right, and center. And its not just you! It's all over any thread on this topic. And no. To be clear I do not think you have abused your children - what a bloody leap there.

What a shocking situation for you @Gilles27 and how wonderful and heartwarming that it’s turned around for you all.

@DesperateParent I think that making contact with the Uni is important as assuming this is her final year this might be the last place you can locate her.

How often does she speak with DD2 and the cousin - could they go to see her at Uni?

What do you think her plans would be post Uni?

Well yes Eatingjumper when someone says “how convenient” to you, it means , when used passive aggressively as it is here, “you are lying”.

So what do you think I was lying about in the context of this thread?

How else was I supposed to interpret that?

I am not invalidating anyone btw. I am, if you are open enough to listen, saying that parenting teenagers and young adults, which isn’t always easy, can in certain circumstances, give you a different perspective to when you were young yourself. And in fact that was my personal experience.

We seem to keep getting sidetracked by bitter accusations.
The way I see it, there are all kinds of explanation for OP’s situation, for example:
(1) DD has got in with the wrong crowd
(2) DD is going through an identity crisis that involves firmly putting childhood behind her
(3) DD has experimented with drugs that don’t agree with her
(4) DD has misinterpreted well-meant advice, or been seduced by bad advice
(5) DD is mature and experienced enough to know exactly what she is doing and her decision to go NC is based on long-term abusive behaviour from OP

Given that scenarios (1) to (4) are extremely common among students, any one of these could have happened, or any combination of them.

It’s a shame that so many PPs refuse to consider the possibility of anything but (5), yet might come down like a ton of bricks on OP if she were to post a thread about her DD suffering MH issues and her not being there to support and protect her.

@Alcemeg and @Neveryoureye77 for PM! A coalition maybe?

I’m so sorry
it spreads that the major change and university has triggered her mental health in a very hard and major way

right now maybe the best thing to do is sit on hands and don’t do anything to rock the boat with her

what you want to establish is a way to check she’s ok without her knowing

so if she’s in contact with sister and cousins
maybe back off but ensure those lines are open
between them

maybe not send money (put aside) and for now resoect her wishes

at some stage you might want to air concerns to her sibling and cousin and alert them

also who IS the therapist ? I’d be wanting a name and to find them online
not to do anything , but check they are legit from your peace of mind

knowing the university name could help track them down

🤣 🥰 I don't think many folk reading this thread would vote for me, but thank you for the moral support 😍

This post is very sensible indeed!