Estrangement from adult child

[DesperateParent]

I am trying to find some advice to help me with a really heartbreaking situation that has completely destroyed my family.

My darling DD1, who is at university, has decided to cut off all contact with me and her dad. This came pretty much out of the blue - one day we were exchanging jokey WhatsApp messages as normal, the next I got an odd message that I didn't really know how to respond to so I kept it light, then silence for a bit, then a nasty but vague email in weird formal language basically accusing us of abusing her throughout her childhood. She won't enter into any discussions, says she has seen a counsellor at university and doesn't consider us her parents any more.

We are totally devastated and have no idea what brought this on. Her email was vague, but nothing specific she says is true. We also find it hard to believe a counsellor would encourage her to cut herself off without knowing any background, but maybe that's what they do?

This all happened a year ago, soon after we took her back to university after the Christmas break, and I've been barely functioning since. When we left her at her accommodation, she was completely normal - laughing at me trying not to cry as I left her there, as usual. I contacted someone at the university whose name I remember being mentioned when she started who said he couldn't even confirm or deny to me that she was a student, but that he would always check on a student if a parent were concerned - hypothetically, of course. He was actually very nice while not being able to really tell me anything, but made it clear he would only be able to help if the student asked for help. We were hoping she would eventually recover from whatever she was going through and would get back in touch, but I got another nasty email the other day demanding that I stop sending her money. I presume she has managed to declare herself as independent as far as the student loans people are concerned and has told them she has no contact with us - would they just believe her without checking? We have been sending money monthly since she started.

She tells me in this email that if I reply she will block me - she 'requires' me to just stop the money as she demands. I don't know what to do - in a way she has given me an incentive to write back, as it makes no difference as either way I can't write again. She has already blocked me on WhatsApp and I don't know where she is living. Whatever she says or does, I don't want to stop supporting her as I'm pretty sure she hasn't thought ahead to the fact that she loses all financial support the minute she leaves university. Has anyone been in this situation? Is there any hope I will see my daughter again? Our whole family is in a complete mess because of this. DD1 will speak to her little sister and her cousin, but DD2 feels like she is walking on eggshells trying not to bring up important subjects, and I feel bad about her having to deal with this at the age of 16.

DD1 has a background of mental health issues (particularly in 6th form) and has always struggled to make friends and interact with other people. She is very unlikely to ask anyone for help and I don't know what prompted her to see the university counsellor. I seem to have spent 20 years trying to hold her together and fight off the bullies on her behalf - she seemed so well for the first year and a half at university, then this sudden change.

Sorry this is so rambling, I don't know where to turn.

We are in Scotland and smacking is illegal.
It is also illegal in Wales I believe.
It is only still legal in England, and even here I believe you can still be charged

'As a parent, you don't have the legal right to smack your child unless it is 'reasonable punishment' If the violence you use is severe enough to leave a mark, for example a scratch or a bruise, you can be prosecuted for assault or the child can be taken into local authority care.

A slap can leave a mark, and in fact some slaps can bruise and leave the marks of the fingers. So you are on dodgy territory with any kind of slapping and hitting.

I expect the laws in England will follow a similar pattern to the other nations, or at least they should, because I think everyone recognises that smacking and hitting children is unacceptable in the 21st century. You wouldn't expect to smack and hit as an adult, so why would it ever be okay as a small child?

"It's up to spidey how she feels, not us"

as you proceed to tell her she has been abused even though she repeatedly tells you she wasn't. Why on earth do you think it is your place to tell someone that they were abused in such a forceful manner? Is there something you're getting out of it? When someone tells you no the first time, you drop it, you don't keep haranguing them. It's the constant ignoring of spidey's boundaries that is so off putting, particularly when you are speaking down to a few people about how we "condone childhood abuse". Purple is right, your original posts were really insightful and helpful, but it's been tainted by this insistence on telling people what their experiences of childhood were.

I think everyone recognises that smacking and hitting children is unacceptable in the 21st century. You wouldn't expect to smack and hit as an adult, so why would it ever be okay as a small child?
I'm not a mother (you will be pleased to know!), but I can understand a small slap to convey important boundaries where all other approaches have failed. In my view, it does not necessarily indicate criminal disregard for child welfare, sometimes quite the opposite. Of course, fucked-up people will tend to damage their kids whether they hit them or not. Parenting is rather difficult to control with legislation.

I consider hitting and smacking to be abuse, so just because a poster on here doesn't think she has been abused, I will disagree.
It is the pp insistence that her sister must not say her family was dysfunctional that I find disturbing. That is my opinion.
It is up pp what they do with the information, they can disregard it, ignore it or move on to another subject.

I won't apologise for drawing attention to the law, at least in most parts of the UK and I certainly will not apologise for calling out abuse, especially when it involves young children. If you consider that to be a 'forceful' view, well I will happily own that too.

I am a mother, and fortunately I can not imagine a space in time when I would ever, ever consider smacking, hitting or slapping their small bodies, not in a million billion years.
I don't know anyone at all in RL that would condone or hit their own children. Thank god for most people now it is confined to the 1970s and a relic of past times.

Luckily we have ss that can step in and help children now, and there is much more awareness around domestic violence, that can take many forms. We have helplines and even phones in school to call the NSPCC, and children mostly have a very good sense and view that this is not normal parenting practice these days.

You are so right I'm NC because I'm a difficult person, not because of the rapes, the hitting, the hairpulling, the emotional neglect the withholding of food and medicine. Its just because I'm a drama lama.

I don't know anyone at all in RL that would condone or hit their own children. Thank god for most people now it is confined to the 1970s and a relic of past times.
Except that the survey I shared would seem to suggest it's not, and the majority of parents asked said they think it should remain legal. (Maybe honest answers are more likely in an anonymous national survey than, say, on Mumsnet.)

I'm not saying it's a great thing to do, I'm just pointing out that accusing OP of maliciously breaking the law is incorrect.

Where did I say she shouldn't say it? Yet again, you are twisting my words to suit yourself. She said it, and we talked about it. If at any point thought she was damaged by her childhood, I would have encouraged her to get therapy, even if my experiences were different from hers. Of course i would. She's my sister, and I love her. But she didn't. If you knew her, you would know she'd continue saying it. We often chat about our childhood, and yes we do talk about things that were done differently back then, but she has not said since it was dysfunctional since. And, as you're clearly short of hearing, I'll shout it. IF THERE HAD BEEN SERIOUS PROBLEMS SHE WOULD HAVE CONTINUED SAYING IT.

So just to clarify this

1. my sister was not subject to repeated violence. She has never even mentioned being hit. Myself and my two older brothers, were, on occasion back in the early 1970s, slapped on the back of the legs. I can't remember if my sister was. I'm not justifying it, of course it was wrong, but my sister has never mentioned anything about this at all. I do not feel abused at all from the ''trauma'' of being slapped on the back of the legs a couple of times, no matter what others may think. Maybe I'm more resilient than others, but I don't think I am.

2. I have not ''silenced'' her. I listened to her and got her talking. If it had been made clear she was damaged, I would have suggested therapy. That was 20 years ago. The claim our family was dysfunctional was not repeated, because it was discussed and clarified it was the previous generation which was dysfunctional, and while ours wasn't perfect, it was, indeed, 'fine' and an improvement on my dad's generation. . My parents produced 4 well balanced, functioning adults, all working in professional careers, most with kids (I don't have any.)

@Swissmountains Now please stop rewriting my family history, because it really doesn't help either me, or the OP.

Hitting children is sick and is rightly outlawed in normal countries.

It is unacceptable.

Is this still the estrangement from adult child thread or has it been derailed?

I think it's mutated into the "Take the moral high ground or be damned" thread 😁

As op has disappeared I can't see there is much more left to say, pp have covered most of it. I repeat smacking children is illegal here and elsewhere in the UK. I don't much care for the personal opinions of people that condone violence against children, and as this thread is about estrangement lets keep on topic shall we? Or start a thread of your own about smacking and the silence and shame around families if you want.

Op, sorry your thread got derailed. I hope you’re ok. There’s always hope for your dd to find her way back to you, look after yourself 💛

''@Alcemeg · Today 14:31
I'm not a mother (you will be pleased to know!), but I can understand a small slap to convey important boundaries where all other approaches have failed''

I wonder if you would be saying the same thing if it was a man deciding that his girlfriend needed reminding of ''boundaries'' and that a ''small slap'' was appropriate.

Or if a police officer decided that the young man he was searching could do with a ''small slap'' to convey important boundaries.

I bet you would see the above examples as assault by a person who has more power against one who is more vulnerable and cannot easily retaliate/protect themselves.

Yet somehow you think it becomes OK when it an adult and a child...

Hitting a child is never the right thing to do. About time England makes this illegal too.

I'm not here to defend hitting children, just to make the point that piling on the OP as a vicious criminal is unfair in light of survey findings such as those shared earlier.

But theoretically, to answer your question:
I wonder if you would be saying the same thing if it was a man deciding that his girlfriend needed reminding of ''boundaries'' and that a ''small slap'' was appropriate. Or if a police officer decided that the young man he was searching could do with a ''small slap'' to convey important boundaries.
I think the difference is that as parents, you are responsible for ensuring that your children learn the difference between right and wrong, safe and dangerous, etc. You must somehow get them to learn this rather urgently, by about the age of 6, and I'm not sure how easy it is to reason with a 3-year-old.

Had I become a mother, I'd like to think I'd never have hit my child, but no way am I going to sit in judgment of OP, much less condemn her the way PPs have.

@Hardly123

"they had apologised, told me they loved me, taken some accountability and asked what they could do to fix and improve our relationship in a way that made me feel safe and comfortable, I would have considered letting them back into my life"

this a hundred times over. In the end, it doesn't matter what the facts are, it was how she felt, and for that part, she wants to feel heard and validated. You may not have abused her, but she felt psychologically deeply affected by something in her childhood .

I very much hope you get a chance to meet her , and when you do the PP gives very sage advice.

Well, I have to disagree with pp. Facts are important. As are feelings. You don't get to accuse your parents of horrendous things because of feelings though.
TBH So much introspection in this younger generation is, to my mind, not a great thing. The constant "look at me" - see where I am, watch my video, check out my tatts, my life is harder than yours. It's all a bit pathetic. IF the OP or her DH has abused her daughter, then that is a terrible thing which needs to be investigated, not ignored. But the constant onslaught of "poor me - my counsellor says" and " you need to get therapy " is rendering a lot of actual trauma meaningless and mixed up with just "life".
Best Wishes OP.
Personally , I would ignore most of the posters on this thread and just go and see your daughter. She isn't going to bite. Worst case scenario she refuses to speak to you. At least you will know she's alive and well. And if she cuts you off because you did visit her then nothings changed. SHe already did that.

@WinterFoxes

Excellent post.

Personally , I would ignore most of the posters on this thread and just go and see your daughter. She isn't going to bite. Worst case scenario she refuses to speak to you. At least you will know she's alive and well. And if she cuts you off because you did visit her then nothings changed. She already did that.
I think @marvellousmaple has excellent advice here. It's quite possible that your DD is not sure what happens next without her losing face, and seeing you might remind her who you really are. Good luck OP 💕

Or it could just backfire horribly and security is called, and you have ignored her wishes. She knows 'who you are really are' after 21 years on the planet.
Starting respecting her wishes, it might show you are actually listening to her.

Is that what you'd do with your own child, after a year of following their instructions for fear of putting a step wrong? You'd carry on leaving them to it, regardless of all the potential and even likely dangers inherent in the situation? Or do you only recommend it because this is how you picture OP?

I am probably going to get flamed for this but I am old enough not to care!
Now I am older I read threads like this and sigh a little.

I am not saying that they’re aren’t dreadful parents about because obviously some perpetrate dreadful abuse, and some are negligent and others are inadequate owing to their own issues. But many mothers are just trying their best quite often in difficult circumstances, with imperfect marriages and less than optimum financial situations.

Is there no consensus any more that the decade between 15 and 25 years aren’t always the age when we are at our most wise, objective or forgiving? The brain doesn’t fully form until the mid-20s.

Personally I would now never assess my own parents or anyone else’s parenting until I had raised teens and young adults myself and was at least mid-fifties in age, because I think you need that long term perspective to make an accurate assessment.

I used to be very harsh about my mother’s parenting skills until I fully realised how difficult a job raising dc to adulthood is. She wasn’t great emotionally but I know she tried her best and loved us to the extent that she could given the parameters of her own upbringing.

Some occasions are painful to look back on so I have sympathy for YA who feel unloved and upset, but at the same time, I try and balance it with all of the mundane stuff she did for us day after day. All the cooking, washing, cleaning, meeting us from school, not to mention all the effort it took to get me and my siblings through infancy. That alone is worthy of some respect I think, at least enough to give her the benefit of the doubt.

As you say it depends on what has happened and the extent of the issues experienced. No one cuts off a parent lightly. No one.
I might suggest all the cooking in the world might not make up for everything else, no matter how much one would like it to.

I might suggest all the cooking in the world might not make up for everything else, no matter how much one would like it to

As you well know Swissmountains
I wasn’t saying it did. Of course it does not.

In no way am I trying to condone abusive parenting, I am making the point that when you get a lot older, and have had teens and YAs, you might look back at what your non-abusive parents did and come to a different more balanced conclusion about how good or poor they were at parenting. Nothing else. So please don’t try and twist the tone of my post.