Have a third child or I leave

[Hettywins]

What my husband has told me.

We have two, a 7 year old DS who is severely disabled and a 2 year old DS who is (we believe at this point) neurotypical.

I am primary carer for both and I work part time around my eldests needs. His needs are significant and involve a lot of hospital appointments.

My DH is a good Dad, a good provider, works hard, pulls his weight around the house, we have the usual squabbles and parenting life is very transactional right now - e.g you take the kids and I'll do XYZ and next day vice Versa. We don't prioritise family time.

DH did not handle our eldest's diagnosis very well, he loves him and is a good Dad but is deeply sad about his disabilities. I handle all medical appointments on my own and deal with all of the huge amounts of admin which comes with having a disabled child on my own. His mental health has plummeted and he is now a very angry bitter person, with an eternally pessimistic outlook, it is very, very draining but he is unwell.

He is very angry that I have said no to a third child, he thinks it is unfair on our youngest that they won't have a typical sibling to play with and grow up with and to be a friend/support when they are older, this anger is entirely directed at me and he says although he loves me deeply sometimes he has waves of hate towards me for not having a third child - actual hate. He knows I am a good mum and he recognises how I have been let down at times (e.g when I birthed our second he could barely acknowledge it was happening he just checked out because it brought up too much trauma for him from the birth of our first).

I could say I will have a third and he will stay. But I feel so hurt that he doesn't love me enough to understand that is asking too much of me (he says it's not about me it's about DS2) and I feel like whilst he is not well bringing a third child into the world is not the way to fix things - rarely does that work right? He says it will fix everything.

If he leaves I'm financially screwed and I'd loose my DH who I have loved for 20 years.

Any advice? Opinions? Is he right?

Has he seen them since he left? Does he even care about his eldest?

Not only that - DH takes his son’s disability as a personal injury to himself that he demands OP compensates him for with another baby.

The sad thing here is that the husband cannot seem to understand that the reason they cannot have another child isn't down to his wife's behaviour its down to his behaviour

DH did not handle our eldest's diagnosis very well, he loves him and is a good Dad but is deeply sad about his disabilities. I handle all medical appointments on my own and deal with all of the huge amounts of admin which comes with having a disabled child on my own. His mental health has plummeted and he is now a very angry bitter person, with an eternally pessimistic outlook, it is very, very draining but he is unwell.
What about YOUR health?
You are managing all of this on your own - how on earth does that make your H ill?

He is very angry that I have said no to a third child, he thinks it is unfair on our youngest that they won't have a typical sibling to play with and grow up with and to be a friend/support when they are older, this anger is entirely directed at me and he says although he loves me deeply sometimes he has waves of hate towards me for not having a third child - actual hate.
Bye bye, Mr Hatey.

He knows I am a good mum and he recognises how I have been let down at times (e.g when I birthed our second he could barely acknowledge it was happening he just checked out because it brought up too much trauma for him from the birth of our first).
Aaaaaw HE was traumatised by the birth?
Yeah I expect it took a real toll on his body & hormonal system.
Unlike you, who bounced back into her old body within 24 hours, & was entirely unaffected by any mental health issues or trauma around DC1's disability ...
Fucking hell he's a self-obsessed monster.

I could say I will have a third and he will stay.
Yes, you could trap yourself further, give up more of yourself, sacrifice more of your financial independence, just to give him a 3rd child whose raising he will leave all to you.

But I feel so hurt that he doesn't love me enough to understand that is asking too much of me (he says it's not about me it's about DS2)
He's lying.
Nobody hates their spouse because their child only has one sibling.
And his remark about DC2 not having a 'typical sibling' is downright disgusting. DC1 IS his sibling, this is the child & brother your family has. I felt a bit sick reading this. Like he is angry with you for not birthing a 'perfect/typical' child. Like it;s somehow your fault, & you owe him.

and I feel like whilst he is not well bringing a third child into the world is not the way to fix things - rarely does that work right? He says it will fix everything.
He says, he says.
He says a lot of things, doesn't he? And all of it's shit.

I'd call his bluff & let him leave. Would you even miss him? He's not much use as a dad or H, is he?

This all started back in the summer so 6 months ago, we made up and he said he would try and be less angry and I said I would not rule out a 3rd but only if he got better, at that time his whole family (who he is close to) said he needed therapy and did not agree with him. He did not act on that and got no therapy and honestly I know it sounds weak but I have no capacity to take on his mental health,
YOU ARE NOT WEAK
You are astoundingly resilient.
You are carrying this man. You work FAR harder than he does - FGS DC!'s additional needs are all on you, & it sounds like this will be lifelong, you do everything for the home & DC, AND you manage to work 30 hours a week.

It is NEVER appropriate for a layperson to 'carry' another person's mental illness. Your are his wife, not his shrink. It is up to him to get himself better. It is up to him to WANT to be supportive, to step up, to play a positive & calm role in family life.

Even his family see how badly in the wrong he is.

I sort all of the kids out, I do everything for them and he doesn't need to worry about any of that other than just showing up when and where I tell him too, e.g eldest has a medical appointment and youngest is swimming so please be here at this time and here is the bag already packed with everything needed. Given my oldest medical needs it's a lot to for me and working 30 hours a weeks I'm just at full capacity so I told him I don't need anything more from you but just need you to sort out yourself, because I can't also take that on.
He has some big problems, & they are not for you to manage.
You should not be expecting yourself to live with & tolerate his anger, disengagement, lack of respect, or coercive stance about wanting another child.

When do YOU get a break?
Do you have close friends you can talk to - what support are you getting IRL?

As ever, @KettrickenSmiled nails it.

OP. Get angry. Get very angry.

and get legal advice. If he wants to swan off like a feckless loser, then you’ll need help to ensure he is held,to account financially for the children he has helped create.

YY to the above posts.

I am sorry but he is putting you in an impossible situation and I am afraid he is neither a good father nor a good husband.
Maybe someone else has asked this, but what support do you have outside of your marriage? It sounds like you need support and he is not providing it.
Second question, while you are separated - and he should stay away whilst he does the counselling and seeks support from his GP - what financial arrangements is he making for you and can you talk to Citizen’s Advice to make sure that you are getting all the benefits you are entitled to?
In my opinion, you really cannot agree to a third child to save your marriage. As others have said, there is no guarantee that your third child will not also have disabilities and even if not, a new baby on top of everything else does not sound manageable. A child should be brought into the world because they are wanted in their own right, not to solve other people’s issues. Plus, what if a third baby does not solve the issues? Etc.
All good wishes to you, it sounds a very difficult situation.

No way in hell should anyone allow themselves to be blackmailed into have a child! And what about if you had another child who was also disabled? Would he expect you to keep on trying for the ‘perfect’ playmate for your 2 year old while leaving you to cope with the medical needs of your disabled children alone?

I just wanted to say OP that you need to stand firm on this. I have a 3rd child who has significant ANeeds (ND and epilepsy) and life is really, really fucking hard. It's gotten much harder as he's got older (almost 11). It's hard every day and I want to scream/weep at some point of most days. It's horrendously stressful and I wouldn't have ever thought about another child after him.

My DH is great, but we both struggle at times with how our lives have turned out and the worry of what's to come. If DH was depressed/ angry like yours it would tip me over the edge. He has no right to put this much pressure on you, no fucking right! Pressure of his depression and for a 3rd child. He is so, so, so very wrong.

He needs to get himself well and respect your decision or leave. Why is it always the women coping with everything? You DH has made me livid or your behalf.

I have seen this happen and the results were not good. My cousin and her husband had a DD1 and a year later DD2. Both healthy and normal. But husband "wanted a SON" to carry on the family name, so cousin agreed although they could barely afford the two they had. Third child was the wanted DS - but he was born deaf, partially blind, brain damaged, etc. Doctors predicted less than 3 years life span and cousin had to quit work to care for him. She did all the child care and medical admin. Father worked two jobs and was home every other weekend.
Father begged and pleaded to try again for a normal son. They did. DS2 was born normal and healthy. Father then decided that four children were "too much" and causing "stress and mental health issues" so he left his family, quit his job and moved back in with his mother, where he stayed until his death 20 years later.
If you say "Yes" be prepared to be a single parent.

Jeez @GeorgiaGirl52 that anecdote is like something out of The Monkey's Paw. Your poor cousin, what a selfish arsehole her H was.

Your youngest will not suffer from not having a 'typical' sibling. He will suffer from seeing DH lack of engagement with DS7 and struggle to reconcile why he is treated differently - that parental love can be conditional.

Thank you for all of the advice and opinions on this. I have read every one and it has helped me to feel that it is not me letting my family down by saying no to this and that resulting in our family being torn apart.

To answer some questions - he won't really engage in the discussion of "what if third child is disabled" which I have brought up many times, I don't think he's really thinking about this rationally like that. If I'm honest if my H was happy and healthy and well in himself I think I could have a third and even if third also had challenging needs I would cope, but obviously not while H is unwell and effectively emotionally blackmailing me.

He has seen the kids since he left, every day he has come after work for tea and bedtime, a couple of these occasions I have left the house. It is fairly amicable between us, no shouting or anything, just deep sadness this is where we find ourselves. He is starting counselling next week but even if has a miraculous change of heart he will not be coming back to the family home to live for a long time, if ever, after what he has put me through.

This is all very sad. So many threads on here are about people behaving badly basically because they can but I see your situation as a family that has suffered genuine and extreme stress yet not received adequate support. I believe that all parents who experience traumatic births should be entitled to therapy to help them process what has happened and manage the fallout whether it is emotional, physical or financial. It is just a huge failing of our society that people are expected to cope with a highly unusual and distressing birth without any support. Immediately the family is vulnerable and the outcomes for the children are much poorer than need be. Yours is a case in point. It has been years and your husband is still in terrible distress to the point he has hurt you and deeply damaged the relationship.

While it may be too late for your relationship, I do hope your husband engages with the therapist and gains the courage to be vulnerable.

You are obviously a highly intelligent, thoughtful and pragmatic person and I hope that you have good support because clearly you have a lot to cope with. Stay focused on immediate needs and trust in yourself, you have got this.

Sorry you find yourself in this situation

You've had lots of helpful advice. I just wanted to add a few points about finances. First do you have a mortgage or rent?

I think you said that you work 30h/w... I assume that you are already claiming Child Benefit plus DLA for your oldest? It's very likely that now your husband has moved out, you will be able to claim Universal Credit. To check you can use an online benefit calculator (Entitledto or Turn2Us) or contact Citizens Advice: www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/universal-credit/claiming/helptoclaim/

It partly depends on the housing situation and whether your husband is still contributing towards mortgage/rent and bills (I hope he is) but either way you should consider things like shared financial liabilities/assets and child maintenance, too.

If and when you're ready to start looking at all that, Advicenow has very helpful guides:
www.advicenow.org.uk/divorce-and-separation

PS You should also notify the council that he's moved out so you can get the 25% single person discount on your council tax.

I could not agree more! We got my sons diagnosis whilst he was still in NICU, they knew from brain scans that he would be severely disabled but we were offered no support at all at that point, not for us or for him. We took him home a few months later and were told to wait and see how he developed, nothing proactive was done despite them knowing this wasn't a wait and see situation, over 50% of his Brian had effectively died. We got no support as parents and this lead to months of angst and confusion and worry. I remember contacting private physio therapists, neurologists, brain plasticity specialists begging for some help and guidance we were extremely vulnerable to being taken advantage of, I even took him into a hyperbaric oxygen chamber at an MS therapy centre just a few weeks after he was discharged, which looking back could have been dangerous, there were no doctors present- this was not the behaviour of a rational person, I was just in a "fix it" mode and willing to try anything, whilst my husband just spiralled down into hopelessness. I think if we had been put in touch with a support network of people who understand to help guide us it would have helped massively. Intervention did come eventually, as he missed milestones PT and OT got involved, when he lost weight, dieticians and SALT, when he had seizures, neurologists as well as for his cerebral palsy, orthopaedics, ophthalmologists for his lack of vision, it all came eventually but that first year was horrendous on our own.

Thank for your understanding and compassionate response.

Thank you for your practical advice. Yes my son gets DLA and I get CB for them both. Currently don't claim any other benefits and not sure I would qualify as I work nearly full time we own our own home and have some savings, although he will probably take all of the saving. I won't be able to afford to stay here on my own, this is what scares me the most, I need a place with enough space for my sons hoists and equipment and which is accessible for a wheelchair.

I will look into it all obviously, and get my head around what support I might be entitled to on my own.

If you think he might take the savings, i would suggest taking half and putting it in an account he can't get at.

You'd have to be earning a lot to not be eligible for UC as the single mother of a child on DLA (assume it's the higher rate, too). You'd get the disabled child element and the carer's element. Significant amount of your earnings would be ignored before deductions would be made from UC.

Savings are relevant but would only disqualify you if over £16k.

Re benefits

As you have a child on DLA, you’ll get the Significantly Disabled Child element of UC which is c.£400 a month. Carers Allowance (unsure on amount) and you will have no obligation to job search.

The housing element part is shit - no help with a mortgage, and LHAs/private rental costs vary wildly. I was getting £450 a month (when I has about 6 months unable to work or study due to DCs health going down the drain, it’s also when I first applied for DLA), towards a tiny, run down 3 bed terrace that was costing me £700 and was actually cheap for the area (which is in a cheap part of the country anyway!), so the “single person” element of c.£300 that is apparently the bare minimum an adult needs for food, heating and other bills was going entirely on the rest of my rent.

It was c.£2000 a month, plus DLA, plus CB, plus the paltry CMS.

I'm working full time again now, mostly from home, really flexible, and still get a small amount of UC.

PS - you’ll get the SDC element, full amount, regardless of earnings (I think), I do. Join Universal Credit Essentials forum; they were really helpful and know their stuff - more than UC staff at times

Yes exactly. The odds of you having another disabled child are much higher than a couple who doesn’t have a child with disabilities.

Just to throw my two penneth in. I knew a woman who had 2 children, one was much older than the other. She told me that her and her dh had been happy to have just one child, together and happy for many years, they had a good life and she enjoyed working.Then her dh put pressure on her to have another child. She didn’t want to but agreed. When the child was a toddler her dh left. He went to live with a childless women because it was all too much having 2 children. The first wife had to stop working and had to go and live in rented accommodation.
Stick to your guns op.