How to cope with an almost sexless marriage? Can counselling really help?

[LosingIt2022]

Hoping this is the most appropriate subforum.
I'm looking for some advice because the lack of sex life is putting a huge strain on our relationship.
I want to propose some form of couples therapy / counselling because this is the only way I can think of to make her understand how important this is to me; I do not expect miracles but I do not want to leave any stones unturned.
If nothing changes, I would at least like to understand if there are some coping strategies to help me not lose my sanity - I am banging my head against the wall while dying inside and she doesn't seem to take notice.

What are your experiences?
Is there really a solution for couples whose sex drives change so much over time?

The story:

I'm male, my wife and I are both mid 30s, we have 2 kids.

I have always had a higher sex drive but, while mine has remained constant, hers has been constantly plummeting.

It used to be about once a week, I imagined it would have become less frequent, but I never imagined once every 2-3 months.

When it happens, she gets really lost in the moment, which is amazing, but it has simply moved at the very bottom of her priority list: it will only happen if she's not too tired, if she has already finished her favourite TV series, if that night her best friend doesn't call her to rant about her new life as a divorcee, etc etc.

Any attempt at experimenting has been shot down mercilessly: new lingerie makes her feel under pressure, toys are not her thing.

I have tried to plan and set some time for ourselves in advance, but she says this makes her feel too much pressure.

Any attempt at communicating is very hard because she just does not want to talk about these things; she was brought up in a very conservative, not religious but Jane-Austen-like environment.

I asked if she would ever be willing to, well, tease me; there are times when she wants to cuddle and nothing more, is that really that different? Apparently for her yes, she was horrified at the idea.

I got really, really cross because a couple of weeks ago she told me in the morning that she would have actually wanted me but I was in the loft, working. Why didn't you call me? So I should just wait in bed for you to finish your TV series, on the off chance that once in a blue moon you might actually want me, but there can be no communication or planning?

I have lost count of the number of times I told her how I feel rejected and unimportant, and how I feel less important than a stupid TV series. It just doesn't register, it's as if I were speaking a different language.

There are lots of other things in the relationship which work really well, and they are a huge reason why I fancy her so much, but this remains a big problem.
I often wonder: had I known it would have ended up like this, would I have married this person and had 2 kids?

I would suggest it's not you who needs the counselling. Although it might be helpful as you could be in danger of slipping into a depression..but apart from that it's not you with the problem. I'd think that couples counselling would be massively beneficial...if you could get her to go.

You're wasting your time really. This guy will argue up and down and sideways how he's perfectly in the right and can't possibly back down on anything. His wife is probably exhausted with it, tbh.

@Vivaleconfused
"Tell me you hate women, without telling me you hate women…"
Tell me you are a fundamentalist who cannot accept a different point of view or interpretation, without telling me you are a fundamentalist...

I thought you wanted advice, so of course I gave suggestions of things you could do to try and improve your relationship, but it seems instead you just want to know how you can fix your malfunctioning wife 🙄

Thank you, looks like I wasted my breathe though!

They take it because something has changed, that's the point I was making. The only thing that's ever definite is that time moves on and things change. Expecting your life to stay is stasis is unrealistic. Potentially you may throw something valuable away without realising it's worth because you want it to be as it was rather than how it is.

I mentioned the cycle of men with their younger second wives chasing their youth, then eventually that situation changes too and finally the penny drops. Sometimes the realisation that change is inevitable is the most valuable lesson to learn before too much damage is done.

Feminazi / hysteria / hysterical/ hissy fit. Go and have a look at the history of those words OP, and then learn why they are sexist. Doesn’t matter the context. You’ve showed your true colours. Seems like your wife saw them too.

But if you think that me doing more chores would magically fix everything, no, it's much more complicated than that.

You said you aren't willing to take 'drastic action' but when people suggested you could try changing your approach / contribution to household and childcare tasks as you said yourself you don't do as much as she does, you said the above.

Isn't it worth proactively addressing the imbalance of those tasks / responsibilities then, if you don't want to take 'drastic action', to see if it at least helps?

You say she doesn't communicate that it would help but surely proactively giving it a go to see if it does help, without being asked or told to, is a minor thing you could do just to see?

It is him who needs counselling though. He is the one with the problem. No sex to him is the issue. His wife isn’t broken and is likely very happy in her sexless marriage. You can’t counsel sexual desire to come back especially if married to a sexist moron like this.

And to be clear, by proactively addressing I don't mean having a conversation with her about it. I mean proactively changing it yourself to see if it helps. You didn't seem up for doing so when it was suggested it may help?

@2pence "I mentioned the cycle of men with their younger second wives chasing their youth, then eventually that situation changes too and finally the penny drops. Sometimes the realisation that change is inevitable is the most valuable lesson to learn before too much damage is done."

You're very right, that is a very good point. Despite what some characters on this forum think of me, my main objective is not to to turn back the clock to when we were in our 20s, but to get some clarity on what has been driving the change. What will happen to the relationship will obviously depend on both our attitudes to it.

To clarify: if she manages to find the courage to tell me she hates my guts and no longer wants me as a partner, obviously the relationship is dead.

If she still wants me as a partner, but her sex drive is mostly dead, it's quite different.

I couldn't be in a relationship where there is no interest (whether sexual or not) between the partners, and it's just a convenient arrangement between two flatmates.

A relationship with little to no sex but love and respect shown in other ways? Maybe, probably, well, I'd like to say yes but I suppose I cannot really know for sure yet

Your advice was actually really good. He won’t take it on board though. This is likely the type of man who’d go counselling and then when is asked to look at his own behaviour, will then claim the counsellor is on his wife’s side.

You can only change yourself. Unfortunately it seems OP is too angry with women to have a look at himself objectively. Like many others on here, you included, we wanted to help. He’s only listened to a smidgen of advice on here, the one that fits his narrative and offered sympathy, yet gave no actual advice, yet claims that’s the only good advice he was given.

End of the day, he can get angry at random women on the internet and his wife but it’s not going to help his situation is it?

We tried!

Would your wife entertain the idea of relationship counselling? Or will she outright refuse?

Also, I’m wondering if she’s had her thyroid checked? Low thyroid function can reduce libido.

If there is an imbalance in certain tasks I should address it regardless, because it is the fair thing to do.
But I don't think I should do it "just to try" - I am not a fan of attempting stuff at random just because there isn't enough communication to help the other party understand what's wrong.

I haven't proposed it yet but will. I am waiting a bit to gather my thoughts, to understand more about couple vs individual counselling (one and/or the other, at the same time, one before the other etc) and to enquire about local counselling options.

If there is an imbalance in certain tasks I should address it regardless, because it is the fair thing to do.

Well quite, so have you proactively done so since starting the thread?

But I don't think I should do it "just to try" - I am not a fan of attempting stuff at random just because there isn't enough communication to help the other party understand what's wrong.

So you won't try if she doesn't directly ask you to?

The two sentences seem a bit at odds with each other (yes I should address it proactively / but I won't address it if she doesn't actively ask me to or confirm I should).

So to be clear, have you proactively tackled the imbalance yet? And if not, are you planning to? And if not... why not?

@Vivaleconfused What won't I take onboard, exactly?
I seem to remember I told @Naunet
"Naunet, I take your point about my anger potentially making it all worse, well said. It's one of the reasons why I think we need some external help in the form of counselling / therapy."
www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4709088-how-to-cope-with-an-almost-sexless-marriage-can-counselling-really-help?reply=122777814&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share&utm_source=copylink

That seems to me like the definition of 'taking onboard' and thanking someone for their insights.

monsteramunch
My point was that it is not a substitute for honest, open conversation in a relationship.

Given all the abuse, gaslighting and falsehoods I have been subjected to on this thread, I do not feel comfortable getting into additional details on what kind of imbalance there is in what tasks, and what I have been doing / will be doing about it.

Please note: it does not mean ignoring the advice, quite the opposite. It simply means that, to protect my mental sanity, I will not say any more on this, because I suspect that whatever I say will be weaponised and used to gaslight me and abuse me even more. Make of this what you will.

Whatever I say or don't say, I fear someone will come up with lovely comments about how surely x and y are not enough, and I should have done z, and I didn't because I'm a "sexist pig" acting like a "praying mantis" and "I won't be getting any" because of my "personal hygiene" and I only see my wife as a sexual object because I "hate women" etc etc.

Some of the people on this thread have been really nasty characters. Until now, I have managed to shrug off those comments but, the more it goes on (and if my personal situation becomes more complicated at the same time) the harder it will be.

My point was that it is not a substitute for honest, open conversation in a relationship.

Never said it was. Ever. Said it was something you should proactively do and you seemed to agree, then disagree and now double down on the latter.

I do not feel comfortable getting into additional details on what kind of imbalance there is in what tasks, and what I have been doing / will be doing about it.

Mate, it was a suggestion.

You're incredibly evasive and defensive.

I didn't ask for any details whatsoever about the imbalance. I asked if you had proactively tackled it yourself and if not, if you planned to.

It wasn't a gotcha or an intrusive question demanding details of the ins and outs.

It was a simple query to try to gauge what you've tried already as you said you've taken on board some of the advice on the thread and knowing which bits would help people see if you're willing to then act on that advice proactively in order to shape what they next advise.

I didn't ask for any details whatsoever about the imbalance.

To be clear, when I say this I mean I didn't ask for any details whatsoever about the form of imbalance / specific tasks involved.

Simply whether you had tackled it or not done so.

@monsteramunch I apologise if I came across as aggressive. I meant that I fear other people, not you, would weaponise whatever detail I provide in a response to you.
It may sound excessive but, please trust me, I am not in a nice place at the moment, and there is only so much abuse I can take without it affecting me too much.

Anyway, let me just say that, yes, I am doing something about it.

Anyway, let me just say that, yes, I am doing something about it.

Unsure why you didn't want to just say that when I first asked as it wouldn't have invited more criticism. Quite the opposite in fact, it would have shown you're willing to act on advice and had actually taken it on board.

Your attitude to people posting in good faith means that you're being more heavily challenged than you perhaps expected.

I think a mature response to lots of criticism from various sources (in the case of this thread, about your attitude) is to genuinely consider that your attitude may be a valid reason you're being criticised. Rather than getting angry, defensive and at times aggressive.

If lots of people independently told me I was coming across in a particular way, my instinct would be to believe I was likely coming across that way even if I didn't mean to.

Not to believe all the criticism was unfounded and unfair.

@Vivaleconfused "It is him who needs counselling though. He is the one with the problem. No sex to him is the issue. His wife isn’t broken and is likely very happy in her sexless marriage."

Leaving your lovely insults aside, by your same logic, when a woman complains that her husband does / doesn't do something and this is driving her insane, I suppose that your reaction will be that only she get counselling, because he is perfectly happy like that, right?

Hi, man here (so you are safe 😘!)
Anyway.....😬
I read the thread and knew you would always end up cornered a bit and here we are. The because there are some women who hate men on here, some women who are frustrated with men, some women who give great advice which gets lost in the sea of affront and pettiness on the thread. There's always a 'gotcha' moment every few threads. I'm commenting because I wrote a similar thread under a different user name as my thread was the same as yours- lots of vitrol etc. IGNORE those posters and be glad you are not married to them. Grim.
Heres what I did. My scenario was the same. I asked my wife to discuss the situation one to one in a time when we would not get interrupted. I heard everything she said, she heard me. The big thing there was that the 'discussion' was something she feared, not me, not the lack of sex. The stress of the discussion. We did not agree anything except to make more time for each other with no trade off of sex. She went to her GP who changed her contraception and said she might be peri menopausal. We got a cleaner. We put away the phones. We went to bed earlier. We had nicer wine. We discussed our relationship- what was next, after kids, holidays, organised to see more friends, go to films. Just more time. We did schedule sex for longer sessions during the day when kids were out. Less pressure, not as tired. We got it back together and now have sex most days. It was hard work. I felt like a nag, wondered if I faced a life of solo play, felt that sex was so important. She was wrecked, unfocussed, maybe worrying about kids etc.
Men and women think so differently about sex. Men want a performance and women want an expression. You need to get her to talk to you first then maybe a counsellor. Hope it helps.