Page 14 | Fair for him to oppose paying for dc in this context? (Please be kind)

biwncs · 2022-12-28T14:19:35+00:00

before I start I want to say I’ve NC as I am embarrassed by this and I know I do NOT smell of roses here. Please don’t post if it’s just to sling mud at me, i know I haven’t been perfect by a long way. when I was 37 I panicked about wanting dc and my partner at the time was 40. He had pushed it back a year already but in fairness to him we hadn’t been together long, only two years. He would often make comments about wanting dc and where we would take them, what schools theyd go to etc. I came off the pill and didn’t say and although we also used condoms (we always have, we prefer it), I became pregnant. He was conflicted at the start but after a couple of weeks said it was up to me and he would support me either way. I asked if he wanted a termination a few times and he said no. So we carried on. Half way through the pregnancy I felt I had to tell him I had come off the pill. It was a horrible conversation understandably but we moved past it. A year or so later we broke up, since then my ex has refused to pay a penny and hasn’t spent any time with dc. He has no other kids and as far as I know not with anyone else. He tells me he shouldn’t have to pay as I made him have a dc. I now feel so conflicted about maintenance? I feel he was giving me all the signs he wanted us to have dc and I did openly discuss termination and he said no. But ultimately he’s right I came off the pill and didn’t say. I am so confused/sad as to what to do and what’s right. He doesn’t seem interested in dc either and i feel that’s on me, though I never ever had him down as someone who would abandon his child. I just don’t know what to do and feel he has a point regarding finance.

Spookysparkles · 28/12/2022 22:18

I’m saying- In simple terms- the guy had a choice when the deed was done. That shouldn’t be overlooked.

Moser85 · 28/12/2022 22:18

LaLuz7 · 28/12/2022 21:29

Agreed. But everyone is entitled to give informed consent and to be able to decide for themselves what level of risk is acceptable to them. This man was deceived about the risk involved in the sex, so he was no given the opportunity to opt out. That isn't and never will be right.

Had he known there was no pill being used, he might very well have decided on abstinence. The issue at hand is that he wasn't given that choice. We was misled about how risky the sex was and wasn't allowed the opportunity to put other types of protection in place.

reverse the genders and imagine a man lies to a woman about having had a vasectomy. The woman would be happy to be on the pill if needed (and definitely would if she knew he was fertile) but believes him and assesses the risk of the vasectomy failing as very small and acceptable to her. She choses not to use any other contraception.

Would you say that she's to blame for the resulting pregnancy because she should have known that no sex is ever safe, that even with vasectomies there is a margin of error and that no one is entitled to 100% safe sex? She assessed the risk at less than 1% based on the lie, when in fact the risk was much much higher.

It's the very same concept. Informed consent.

I'm amazed how many people simply can't grasp it

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It's not the same.

A woman stopping the pill because a man lied and said he has had a vasectomy would now be having sex with zero contraception. In this case the couple were still using 1 form of contraception. Yes he thought that she was using a second, but it's not the same as lying about the only form of contraception.

LaLuz7 · 28/12/2022 22:18

Spookysparkles · 28/12/2022 22:16

@LaLuz7 yes I do.
op fell pregnant regardless of the circumstances.it has been acknowledged she is wrong for coming off the pill without discussion.
She asked him what he wanted to do re. Pregnancy - consulting him. He made intentions clear.
now they have split - funds have been withdrawn from a CHILD he said he wanted to father. So yes - IMO that is absolutely a bullet dodged.

this is a pregnancy she as very determined to obtain. in her own words she was desperate that time was running out.

so if you honestly believe she would have aborted at his request you are very very naive. she was counting on him not asking her to go through that. manipulative as fuck

BadNomad · 28/12/2022 22:21

Spookysparkles · 28/12/2022 22:18

I’m saying- In simple terms- the guy had a choice when the deed was done. That shouldn’t be overlooked.

She was never going to have an abortion. She intentionally got pregnant knowing he didn't want children yet. Why would she care about what he wanted now that she was pregnant? She only asked him to make it seem like she was just as shocked by their "accident".

Spookysparkles · 28/12/2022 22:23

I’m entitled to my own opinion, there is no need to make personal remarks @LaLuz7 I’m not naive. You are however, RUDE and aggressive. Bye 👋🏻

Onnabugeisha · 28/12/2022 22:26

BadNomad · 28/12/2022 22:21

She was never going to have an abortion. She intentionally got pregnant knowing he didn't want children yet. Why would she care about what he wanted now that she was pregnant? She only asked him to make it seem like she was just as shocked by their "accident".

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I agree with this, it’s no coincidence that she waited until it was too late to schedule a termination to confess she’d stopped taking the BC pill. She knew that one piece of information would change everything between them.

Besides, decent men know their role if their gf falls pregnant is to support whatever she chooses- which is what he did. He said he’d support whatever she chooses. She chose to keep the baby, and when she had done that he of course supported her as he said he would by saying he did not want a termination. She manipulated him.

dolor · 28/12/2022 22:27

LOL people really are total arseholes, and it's the kids who suffer.

WomanhoodIsABirthright · 28/12/2022 22:53

Nordix · 28/12/2022 16:50

but she has ruined his chance of having a family with someone the right way, of having that family unit.

What 😂Because men never go on to create another family unit with a new woman? Bizarre comment.

Regardless of how much the people of mumsnet think OP sounds like a nasty person, her child is still entitled to CMS. There’s no discussion really.

I wouldn't have got with someone that already had children, who is to say that his 'the one' won't pass him over for the same reason?

YouCantTourniquetTheTaint · 28/12/2022 22:55

What a fucking mess. OP what you've done is absolutely and utterly morally reprehensible.

Yeah of course you can pursue him for child support, but expect him to contest paternity and drag you through court.

He chose to have sex with you on the basis that you were on the pill and using condoms. He did not consent to have sex with you with just condoms. It's a different risk.

The only person who matters here is the kid, how will you explain this when they ask who their dad is? Where their dad is? Why doesn't my dad not want me? Good luck, you're gonna need it.

LaLuz7 · 28/12/2022 23:00

The only person who matters here is the kid, how will you explain this when they ask who their dad is?

Simple, they will just lie some more and blame it all on the man.

Pumperthepumper · 28/12/2022 23:01

YouCantTourniquetTheTaint · 28/12/2022 22:55

What a fucking mess. OP what you've done is absolutely and utterly morally reprehensible.

Yeah of course you can pursue him for child support, but expect him to contest paternity and drag you through court.

He chose to have sex with you on the basis that you were on the pill and using condoms. He did not consent to have sex with you with just condoms. It's a different risk.

The only person who matters here is the kid, how will you explain this when they ask who their dad is? Where their dad is? Why doesn't my dad not want me? Good luck, you're gonna need it.

‘He decided not to be in your life’.

LaLuz7 · 28/12/2022 23:04

Pumperthepumper · 28/12/2022 23:01

‘He decided not to be in your life’.

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"Because he didnt want to be a father but I forced him into it by lying and deceiving him."

you forgot the best part

Stomacharmeleon · 28/12/2022 23:05

I am not going to echo what everyone has said.
You need to sort the maintenance out through. Contact CSA and let them deal with it.

Pumperthepumper · 28/12/2022 23:06

LaLuz7 · 28/12/2022 23:04

"Because he didnt want to be a father but I forced him into it by lying and deceiving him."

you forgot the best part

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’He didn’t want to be a father, even though he is one’ would probably be more age-appropriate.

LaLuz7 · 28/12/2022 23:09

Pumperthepumper · 28/12/2022 23:06

’He didn’t want to be a father, even though he is one’ would probably be more age-appropriate.

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so it's age appropriate to tell the kid the father is a bastard who rejected them, but it's not age appropriate to tell the kid that mom is a nasty liar.

no double standard to see here...

Year2023 · 28/12/2022 23:11

No matter the circumstances there is a child here now. How can anyone live with themselves knowing they have abandoned their own flesh and blood? That is what I can't grasp. Surely that must cause life long issues (if they have a heart).

Pumperthepumper · 28/12/2022 23:11

LaLuz7 · 28/12/2022 23:09

so it's age appropriate to tell the kid the father is a bastard who rejected them, but it's not age appropriate to tell the kid that mom is a nasty liar.

no double standard to see here...

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I didn’t say he was a bastard, where do you get this from?

If he chooses not to be in his kid’s life, that’s the answer she should give.

LaLuz7 · 28/12/2022 23:19

Year2023 · 28/12/2022 23:11

No matter the circumstances there is a child here now. How can anyone live with themselves knowing they have abandoned their own flesh and blood? That is what I can't grasp. Surely that must cause life long issues (if they have a heart).

How can someone live with themselves knowing that their selfishness is the direct cause of their child not having a father in their life?

Bobsyouruncleand · 28/12/2022 23:20

Well let’s hope he gets involved, pays his way and ensures the child is aware in time of exactly who is mother is. These things normally come out at some point and I can’t imagine any child supporting that. I’d be horrified if my mother had done that. She will get her comeuppance eventually and not the rosy family she thought she would get.

Let’s hope other men give her a wide berth in future and don’t trust her, even after years together. There’s a lesson here for all men as they have no power to abort when they’ve been conned, unlike women in this situation.

Pumperthepumper · 28/12/2022 23:21

Bobsyouruncleand · 28/12/2022 23:20

Well let’s hope he gets involved, pays his way and ensures the child is aware in time of exactly who is mother is. These things normally come out at some point and I can’t imagine any child supporting that. I’d be horrified if my mother had done that. She will get her comeuppance eventually and not the rosy family she thought she would get.

Let’s hope other men give her a wide berth in future and don’t trust her, even after years together. There’s a lesson here for all men as they have no power to abort when they’ve been conned, unlike women in this situation.

There’s a lesson here for all men as they have no power to abort when they’ve been conned, unlike women in this situation.

Yes! Totally agree.

daretodenim · 28/12/2022 23:22

I can't believe how many posters think it's partly his fault she got pregnant. What if he removed the condom during sex, but didn't tell her and she'd gotten pregnant. Would that have been ok? Would it have been partly her fault for having sex believing they were using contraception?

Stealthing is illegal. For good reason.

He did not consent to sex with one type of contraception. He had consented to two types. He had no reason to believe they weren't using two types. Those two types used correctly are as failsafe as can be.

What OP did is horrific. Then asking if he wanted a termination, before telling him she'd tricked him into the situation?! What level of fucked up manipulation is that?!

I think OP should do her damndest to get more work, increase her income and cover the expenses for a baby. She owes that to her child for bringing it into the world with a father who was tricked into becoming a father.
If he decides to be involved that should come from him.

Legally she's due something from him via CMS. Morally she's due nothing at all. Morally she's forever indebted to him.

Oh and 'fessing up does not make it better! There are some things you simply can't undo. She removed his choice deliberately and forever changed his life. He can now deal with being reminded he can't trust every time he sees his child, or be a deadbeat dad.

Abhorrent.

Pumperthepumper · 28/12/2022 23:24

daretodenim · 28/12/2022 23:22

I can't believe how many posters think it's partly his fault she got pregnant. What if he removed the condom during sex, but didn't tell her and she'd gotten pregnant. Would that have been ok? Would it have been partly her fault for having sex believing they were using contraception?

Stealthing is illegal. For good reason.

He did not consent to sex with one type of contraception. He had consented to two types. He had no reason to believe they weren't using two types. Those two types used correctly are as failsafe as can be.

What OP did is horrific. Then asking if he wanted a termination, before telling him she'd tricked him into the situation?! What level of fucked up manipulation is that?!

I think OP should do her damndest to get more work, increase her income and cover the expenses for a baby. She owes that to her child for bringing it into the world with a father who was tricked into becoming a father.
If he decides to be involved that should come from him.

Legally she's due something from him via CMS. Morally she's due nothing at all. Morally she's forever indebted to him.

Oh and 'fessing up does not make it better! There are some things you simply can't undo. She removed his choice deliberately and forever changed his life. He can now deal with being reminded he can't trust every time he sees his child, or be a deadbeat dad.

Abhorrent.

No. Him removing the condom would be him deliberately impregnating someone else’s body. That’s nothing like what the OP did, and it’s why there is no comparison between the two.

LaLuz7 · 28/12/2022 23:28

@Pumperthepumper and that makes it ok? just because his body is not affected must mean that he's not victimized? how about his mental health?

Onnabugeisha · 28/12/2022 23:28

daretodenim · 28/12/2022 23:22

I can't believe how many posters think it's partly his fault she got pregnant. What if he removed the condom during sex, but didn't tell her and she'd gotten pregnant. Would that have been ok? Would it have been partly her fault for having sex believing they were using contraception?

Stealthing is illegal. For good reason.

He did not consent to sex with one type of contraception. He had consented to two types. He had no reason to believe they weren't using two types. Those two types used correctly are as failsafe as can be.

What OP did is horrific. Then asking if he wanted a termination, before telling him she'd tricked him into the situation?! What level of fucked up manipulation is that?!

I think OP should do her damndest to get more work, increase her income and cover the expenses for a baby. She owes that to her child for bringing it into the world with a father who was tricked into becoming a father.
If he decides to be involved that should come from him.

Legally she's due something from him via CMS. Morally she's due nothing at all. Morally she's forever indebted to him.

Oh and 'fessing up does not make it better! There are some things you simply can't undo. She removed his choice deliberately and forever changed his life. He can now deal with being reminded he can't trust every time he sees his child, or be a deadbeat dad.

Abhorrent.

I agree. Ignore the ‘but it’s different’ double standard chorus. Of course it’s not identical because of biology, but the principle is the same.

LaLuz7 · 28/12/2022 23:29

Pumperthepumper · 28/12/2022 23:24

No. Him removing the condom would be him deliberately impregnating someone else’s body. That’s nothing like what the OP did, and it’s why there is no comparison between the two.

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Is mental and emotional abuse somehow more acceptable than physical abuse because it doesn't do anything to your actual body? cause that's one implication of your logic