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Relationships

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Fair for him to oppose paying for dc in this context? (Please be kind)

552 replies

biwncs · 28/12/2022 14:19

before I start I want to say I’ve NC as I am embarrassed by this and I know I do NOT smell of roses here. Please don’t post if it’s just to sling mud at me, i know I haven’t been perfect by a long way.

when I was 37 I panicked about wanting dc and my partner at the time was 40. He had pushed it back a year already but in fairness to him we hadn’t been together long, only two years. He would often make comments about wanting dc and where we would take them, what schools theyd go to etc. I came off the pill and didn’t say and although we also used condoms (we always have, we prefer it), I became pregnant. He was conflicted at the start but after a couple of weeks said it was up to me and he would support me either way. I asked if he wanted a termination a few times and he said no. So we carried on. Half way through the pregnancy I felt I had to tell him I had come off the pill. It was a horrible conversation understandably but we moved past it. A year or so later we broke up, since then my ex has refused to pay a penny and hasn’t spent any time with dc. He has no other kids and as far as I know not with anyone else. He tells me he shouldn’t have to pay as I made him have a dc. I now feel so conflicted about maintenance? I feel he was giving me all the signs he wanted us to have dc and I did openly discuss termination and he said no. But ultimately he’s right I came off the pill and didn’t say. I am so confused/sad as to what to do and what’s right. He doesn’t seem interested in dc either and i feel that’s on me, though I never ever had him down as someone who would abandon his child. I just don’t know what to do and feel he has a point regarding finance.

OP posts:
Pumperthepumper · 28/12/2022 20:19

FrippEnos · 28/12/2022 20:18

Except that this isn't the case and is the whole point of the thread.
He believed that they were using two methods of contraception.
One of which was removed without his knowledge and the other "failed".

Again yes he should pay as he is the father, although a DNA test might just be warranted.

Do you think he thought the risk of pregnancy was zero?

LaLuz7 · 28/12/2022 20:21

Pumperthepumper · 28/12/2022 20:18

Why would he? He was using condoms, so he knew there was a risk.

I’m ignoring the thing about fishing the condom out of the bin because it’s 1)irrelevant 2) not the same and 3) I don’t think it would work anyway.

How cowardly lol

Pumperthepumper · 28/12/2022 20:23

LaLuz7 · 28/12/2022 20:21

How cowardly lol

Cowardly how?

Fairydustandsparklylights · 28/12/2022 20:23

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

LaLuz7 · 28/12/2022 20:23

Pumperthepumper · 28/12/2022 20:19

Do you think he thought the risk of pregnancy was zero?

He very well might have.

I calculated the combined risk with regular use (allowing for human error) at only 1% per year.

When you consider using both methods correctly and consistently (perfect use) that percentage drops to virtually zero.

FrippEnos · 28/12/2022 20:23

Pumperthepumper · 28/12/2022 20:19

Do you think he thought the risk of pregnancy was zero?

Do you think that he should have been able to trust his partner of 2 yrs?

Pumperthepumper · 28/12/2022 20:24

LaLuz7 · 28/12/2022 20:23

He very well might have.

I calculated the combined risk with regular use (allowing for human error) at only 1% per year.

When you consider using both methods correctly and consistently (perfect use) that percentage drops to virtually zero.

Virtually zero? Or zero?

Pumperthepumper · 28/12/2022 20:25

FrippEnos · 28/12/2022 20:23

Do you think that he should have been able to trust his partner of 2 yrs?

Yes. I think this is a hideous way to bring a child into the world, and I can’t imagine what would possess anyone to do it.

But he still new there was a risk of pregnancy. He still knew he could be impregnating someone. So the resulting kid is still his responsibility.

FrippEnos · 28/12/2022 20:28

Pumperthepumper · 28/12/2022 20:25

Yes. I think this is a hideous way to bring a child into the world, and I can’t imagine what would possess anyone to do it.

But he still new there was a risk of pregnancy. He still knew he could be impregnating someone. So the resulting kid is still his responsibility.

And I haven't disputed that he should pay for the child.

I am disputing that it is 100% his fault. As you and some others seem to believe.

Pumperthepumper · 28/12/2022 20:29

FrippEnos · 28/12/2022 20:28

And I haven't disputed that he should pay for the child.

I am disputing that it is 100% his fault. As you and some others seem to believe.

I didn’t say it was his fault. I said it’s 100% his responsibility to be a father.

LaLuz7 · 28/12/2022 20:32

Pumperthepumper · 28/12/2022 20:24

Virtually zero? Or zero?

1% (the pill) * 2% (condom) = 0.0002 = 0.02% aka 2 in 10.000

PER FREAKING YEAR

so yes. Zero.

CharlotteStreetW1 · 28/12/2022 20:33

Mammma91 · 28/12/2022 14:47

You were wrong, but you’ve owned it. He can’t punish you forever. Pursue a CMS claim and keep the door open for access to DC if you wish. If he is on the birth certificate then he is legally tied into paying maintenance for his child.

Thing is he's actually punishing the child.

kittenkipping · 28/12/2022 20:34

I think what you did was abominable. Cruel to your ex and most of all cruel to
Your child. However, your and I suppose in this context HIS child exists now. You can't rewind and that child is entitled to the best possible life you can give. That means imo you are obliged to claim csa and your ex is obliged to pay it. To provide the best possible lifestyle or future for the child who was brought into the world. Morally it would be best if he had a regular and positive relationship with his child too, but that's not something you can force (and I think a negative and irregular relationship is worse than none)

Pumperthepumper · 28/12/2022 20:35

LaLuz7 · 28/12/2022 20:32

1% (the pill) * 2% (condom) = 0.0002 = 0.02% aka 2 in 10.000

PER FREAKING YEAR

so yes. Zero.

Thats not zero.

LaLuz7 · 28/12/2022 20:39

Pumperthepumper · 28/12/2022 20:35

Thats not zero.

No, you're right. It would only take them on average 5000 years of doing this to obtain an accidental pregnancy.

Who could trust those odds? Such a fool, ey?

I'm done interacting with you. Your moral compass is just as broken as OPs.

Pumperthepumper · 28/12/2022 20:42

LaLuz7 · 28/12/2022 20:39

No, you're right. It would only take them on average 5000 years of doing this to obtain an accidental pregnancy.

Who could trust those odds? Such a fool, ey?

I'm done interacting with you. Your moral compass is just as broken as OPs.

But you’re insisting black is white. He knew there was a chance of pregnancy every single time he had sex, you’re the only person saying he didn’t. Which is ridiculous.

FrippEnos · 28/12/2022 20:42

Pumperthepumper · 28/12/2022 20:29

I didn’t say it was his fault. I said it’s 100% his responsibility to be a father.

Its is his responsibility to do his best by the child. If that means paying and staying out of the way because he can't move past what the OP has done, then so be it.

Pumperthepumper · 28/12/2022 20:44

FrippEnos · 28/12/2022 20:42

Its is his responsibility to do his best by the child. If that means paying and staying out of the way because he can't move past what the OP has done, then so be it.

But the PP who started this whole tangent said the kid would be miserable without a father, and that was the OP’s fault. Which I disagree with.

aloris · 28/12/2022 20:53

Well, if the failure rate of condoms alone is only 2%, then I would say that in fact she did NOT "stealth" him by using just condoms as her birth control. She used condoms, a means of birth control that is known to be efficacious. Again, she is not obligated to provide him with a 100% guarantee of sterile intercourse.

LaLuz7 · 28/12/2022 20:55

aloris · 28/12/2022 20:53

Well, if the failure rate of condoms alone is only 2%, then I would say that in fact she did NOT "stealth" him by using just condoms as her birth control. She used condoms, a means of birth control that is known to be efficacious. Again, she is not obligated to provide him with a 100% guarantee of sterile intercourse.

Or, if the failure rate for condoms is that small, doesn't it beg the question of how OP got so lucky as to have one miraculously fail right as she had come of the pill?

Must have been true fate... definitely no human intervention there, no way...

aloris · 28/12/2022 21:00

Also, the failure rate of birth control of 1% does not mean that a single couple could have intercourse for 100 years with that method before they get pregnant. It means that if 100 women use that means of birth control for a year, on average 1 of them will get pregnant. Lots of people have become pregnant while on oral contraceptive pill, IUD's, even with vasectomies. It happens.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 28/12/2022 21:03

You wanted a child my lovely
he was the unwitting sperm donor
and now you have one

leave him be
focus on the child you wanted and now have

earn your own money , progress your own career

maybe at some stage he will change
but I’d keep expectations low to be honest

LaLuz7 · 28/12/2022 21:04

aloris · 28/12/2022 21:00

Also, the failure rate of birth control of 1% does not mean that a single couple could have intercourse for 100 years with that method before they get pregnant. It means that if 100 women use that means of birth control for a year, on average 1 of them will get pregnant. Lots of people have become pregnant while on oral contraceptive pill, IUD's, even with vasectomies. It happens.

well yeah.. that's how statistics work. you can only compute them at population level. as long as you don't have data on a particular individual, the best risk assessment you can do for them is still based on population averages. Or are you able to come up with a better proxy for this couple's specific risk?

OldFan · 28/12/2022 21:06

Must have been true fate... definitely no human intervention there, no way

@LaLuz7 For all we know the bloke did a bit of stealthing, didn't always use a condom and that's why he wanted OP to be on the Pill.

Personally when I've been stealthed I've usually been able to tell because it feels different, though.

LaLuz7 · 28/12/2022 21:10

OldFan · 28/12/2022 21:06

Must have been true fate... definitely no human intervention there, no way

@LaLuz7 For all we know the bloke did a bit of stealthing, didn't always use a condom and that's why he wanted OP to be on the Pill.

Personally when I've been stealthed I've usually been able to tell because it feels different, though.

if that's the case, and OP knew they weren't using condoms reliably but still withheld the pill information from him, that only makes her more cunning and deceptive....

I wouldn't use this as an argument in her favour