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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I did something completely idiotic on Christmas and I feel horrible

148 replies

Alracalpaca · 27/12/2022 15:07

I have posted here before and gotten some really wise insight, feedback and objective opinions from many of you, so I am turning here again. I have been married for 7 years to a man I love with all my heart. We moved to a different country a few years ago and since them we have built a small but close expat friendship group. One of my closest friends (we will call her Linda) and I have bonded due to our very similar personalities and also supporting each other through periods of depression and other mental health issues. About 2 and a half years ago I started noticing that my husband expressed an interest in Sam's comings and goings and whether she would be joining group gatherings etc. Way more than he ever has for any other friend. Offering to go pick her up or drop her off when she visited etc. Just nice small gestures, but things he wouldn't usually do. I also saw a shift in body language when he was around her. He looked at her... the way he used to look at me. Sam is beautiful, interesting, talented and does cool stuff like play video games and play drums. Obviously she's like a walking male fantasy. So that hurt, but I know attraction is a normal thing and it happens. So when my husband again kept asking about her I confronted him about it. He weakly denied it. Then I told him to please stop lying to me and that I understand attraction is normal but that if you don't indulge it, it should pass. So he then stopped denying it. He never expressly admitted it. But anyway. Another friend of ours (who I did not discuss this with) told Sam that she had a dream that Sam slept with my husband and that she was so upset about it because it hurt me. Now, it could be nothing, but knowing this friend, she communicates in very indirect ways and I think she picked up on something and was warning Sam indirectly. I made a point of spending time with Sam mostly alone. Sometimes we would spend time in a group but I assumed he was focusing on his marriage and letting this little crush pass. Then Christmas rolled around. All our friends were coming to ours for lunch. She had been travelling the days prior, so when I mentioned she was coming he said "Sam's coming?" and his eyes lit up. I felt a pang. My stomach dropped a bit. But I let it go. On the day he was snapping at me for every small irritation. Sam would go stand outside and smoke and he would be right behind her following her outside. When he noticed that I was sad and withdrawing he finally started to be affectionate after snapping the whole day. But the damage was kind of done. I had been drinking excessively and was not thinking straight. Sam also noticed I was not okay. My husband and I were cleaning up and I was planning on going to bed because I knew I was drunk and upset and I didn't want to fight when I was in that state. I accidentally picked up his phone instead of mine (we have the same phone models and standard black cases) and I saw there was a text from her. I couldn't see what it said. I gave him his phone and walked away. I went to lie in bed and I was crying uncontrollably. She then texted me and asked me "how do you feel" and I said "about what?" she then said "just checking in" and I responded "meh." She said she knew something was up and could I please tell her. After a bit of back and forth I STUPIDLY I KNOW I KNOW told her the whole story. Immediately she said she wants to die and she never intended for anything to be misinterpreted etc etc and that she needs to remember she's not back home in her home country and she can't behave the same way here. And that I'm her closest friend and she doesn't want to lose that. She kind of made it 100% about her which was a bit jarring but I totally understand she was caught off guard. She then sent me screenshots of the text she sent. It was a thank you for hosting with a heart emoji. He responded "always a pleasure" with a little blush smile emoji. The text above it was a thank you for a happy birthday text he sent her. With two heart emojis. But that is how she texts with other people too so I don't think she meant anything by that. Anyway the next morning I wake up to a very long text from her where she said that she opened up to me and trusted me and felt welcome in my home. And why did I not tell her this earlier, why did I wait until she was feeling most vulnerable to tell her this. And that she can't see us getting past this. I was really taken aback because she's acting like I maliciously plotted to hurt her and accused her of hitting on my husband when I expressly and repeatedly said I am not angry with her and I don't think she did anything wrong. I know I put her in a horrible position by telling her. I know that. And I apologized profusely for that and I know that was wrong and selfish and horrible of me. But I didn't do it maliciously. I was hurt and vulnerable and drunk and I stupidly cracked. I confronted my husband and he told me that he doesn't want to be with her. And that he is sorry for how he behaved. I told him he needs to decide whether he wants to explore other options, in which case he needs to leave, or whether he's going to focus on his marriage. He chose the latter. He keeps saying he never had a crush on her and he doesn't know how to convince me of that. I don't know what to believe. But regardless, now my friendship is ruined and I am an idiot. I just really didn't realize how hurt and angry she would be by me being honest. Anyway... how would you approach this situation going forward?

OP posts:
Mumofnarnia · 27/12/2022 18:45

Honestly op, following on from everything I’ve said earlier I would respond to San by telling her that you agree with her that your friendship is not salvageable due to the fact she has been secretly texting your husband and sending heart emojis along with the fact she seemed to enjoy telling you about the dream that Pamela had and that Pamela also suspects you flirt with her husband too. Do not let this woman and your husband gaslight you or put the blame on you any longer. As for your husband, if you feel he is a keeper then work on your marriage but I’d watch him very closely.

StarGoddess · 27/12/2022 18:50

OP an emotional affair is still a form of cheating. Look at what it has done to you. They don’t have to be holding hands, kissing or having sex. They’ve hurt you all the same. It’s time to stand up for yourself.

DarkKarmaIlama · 27/12/2022 18:51

God how are old are you all.

StarGoddess · 27/12/2022 18:52

DarkKarmaIlama · 27/12/2022 18:51

God how are old are you all.

Why on earth does that matter? I’ve known 70 yo’s to behave like this. Getting older doesn’t stop bad things happening to you romantically.

Alracalpaca · 27/12/2022 18:53

DarkKarmaIlama · 27/12/2022 18:51

God how are old are you all.

Yeah I know, and it's not like I'm proud of myself for any of this. How would YOU have handled this situation?

OP posts:
Helplesstohelp22 · 27/12/2022 18:57

Alracalpaca · 27/12/2022 18:53

Yeah I know, and it's not like I'm proud of myself for any of this. How would YOU have handled this situation?

OP please don't put yourself down about this. You've done nothing to feel ashamed of. They've transferred their shame onto you and that post reply was stupid.

Mezmer · 27/12/2022 19:01

Definitely you should listen to your gut. There is a line. They both crossed it. Honestly things may not be physical now but they are - or were - on a path. It’s lucky you have intervened. Don’t feel bad. Don’t apologise.

alwayslearning789 · 27/12/2022 19:02

"But regardless, now my friendship is ruined and I am an idiot. I just really didn't realize how hurt and angry she would be by me being honest. Anyway... how would you approach this situation going forward?"

No friendship ruined here OP - You've nipped this in the bud and not a moment too soon.

Glad to hear your OH acknowledged and apologized so focus on your future not this so called friend.

Don't be guilt tripped into accepting unacceptable behaviour.

Alracalpaca · 27/12/2022 19:03

Helplesstohelp22 · 27/12/2022 18:57

OP please don't put yourself down about this. You've done nothing to feel ashamed of. They've transferred their shame onto you and that post reply was stupid.

What I hate most is how all of this has made me feel about myself. It has reduced me to this insecure, jealous, unhappy person who I never was and never want to be. It has made me question whether I'm boring, ugly, uninteresting, immature, unstable. And made me believe (I can't deny it) that I am all of those things. And that's something I will work out in therapy but the self-hate is difficult and consuming.

OP posts:
StaunchMomma · 27/12/2022 19:05

That massive overreaction from her is guilt fuelled, IMO.

I wouldn't trust her.

Mumofnarnia · 27/12/2022 19:06

Alracalpaca · 27/12/2022 19:03

What I hate most is how all of this has made me feel about myself. It has reduced me to this insecure, jealous, unhappy person who I never was and never want to be. It has made me question whether I'm boring, ugly, uninteresting, immature, unstable. And made me believe (I can't deny it) that I am all of those things. And that's something I will work out in therapy but the self-hate is difficult and consuming.

No you haven’t! They have by crossing the line!

SingedToast · 27/12/2022 19:09

DysonSpheres · 27/12/2022 15:51

Drop the friend. Women know when men find them attractive. Not buying she never picked up on anything. And her reaction is not to reassure you but take offence.

My father serially cheated and as a result I never, ever flirt with other women's husbands. I don't open the door even a crack for the possibility to happen. There is a guy I bond intellectually with, I met at university, and I dropped him as a friend, as he started expressing small niggles about his wife and marriage. I didn't even discuss it. Just never rang him again.

I would never ever text another woman's husband after a nice evening. Always text the wife with 'Thank you and please also convey my thanks to xx' or 'Thank you both'.

She's been enjoying the attention guaranteed. But your husband... it's fine to find another woman attractive, you can't help what you find attractive to a certain degree, but it seems he crossed the line. Perhaps familiarity has bred some discontent.

No wonder you feel hurt. Chalk it up to unpleasant experience l.

What a weird post. You have a good friend who is having a tough time in his marriage so you drop him out of the blue, purely because he’s male and you think he’s sniffing round you? And you would never text the male half of a couple to say thanks for hosting you in case it looks like you’re coming on to him? It must be exhausting thinking every man takes a sexual interest in you.

StarGoddess · 27/12/2022 19:09

Alracalpaca · 27/12/2022 19:03

What I hate most is how all of this has made me feel about myself. It has reduced me to this insecure, jealous, unhappy person who I never was and never want to be. It has made me question whether I'm boring, ugly, uninteresting, immature, unstable. And made me believe (I can't deny it) that I am all of those things. And that's something I will work out in therapy but the self-hate is difficult and consuming.

You are none of those things OP. It sounds like your husband is just one of those sad people whose always looking for the next thing around the corner. He will never be satisfied if that is the truth about his character. If he has or does cheat he will do the same to the next one. It wouldn’t matter if you were a victorias secrets model who has a side gig circus act and can juggle. The grass will always be greener on the other side if he doesn’t learn to stop taking you for granted. Go stay with a friend or relative for a bit.

category12 · 27/12/2022 19:10

Her reaction seems really off to me - she's really turned it all round on you.

Tbh it makes me think she IS having an affair with him far more than anything else you have said.

buttermut · 27/12/2022 19:21

Sam is not to be trusted. Her reaction screams guilt to me. Very strange.

Mumofnarnia · 27/12/2022 19:25

SingedToast · 27/12/2022 19:09

What a weird post. You have a good friend who is having a tough time in his marriage so you drop him out of the blue, purely because he’s male and you think he’s sniffing round you? And you would never text the male half of a couple to say thanks for hosting you in case it looks like you’re coming on to him? It must be exhausting thinking every man takes a sexual interest in you.

It is one thing to text the husband to thank him if that was the only issue the op had and IF Sam hadn’t put heart emoji’s on the end of the text - again not a big issue as such if Sam does this with everyone.
But when Sam is running to the op to tell her that Pamela had a dream that Sam slept with op’s husband (who high is something a friend wouldn’t normally do unless you intentionally want to hurt them/ stir up trouble and then the husband seems to follow this Sam around, offer to give her a lift/ drop her off when it’s something he ‘wouldn’t normally do’, along with constantly asking about her and his eyes lighting up when the op told him that Sam would be coming to the party… when you put it all together it does sound suspicious. I take it you’d be ok with your other half and your friend behaving like this, especially if it had come to light that another friend also seems to be suspecting that the two of them are upto something and indirectly saying so by saying they had a dream about it?

Comeonbarbiebrianharvey · 27/12/2022 19:30

She text you a thank you then text your DH, then randomly text how are you feeling?
It's weird. Her reaction is OTT. She's not a good friend.

Opentooffers · 27/12/2022 19:47

So both Pam and you are concerned about your husbands. Pam could be a common denominator, but hard to know if because she's a flirt or simply so good looking that all men notice .
However, by what she says it seems she is a big flirt back home - that's interesting, culturally maybe more hidden behaviour is possible, whereas more obvious over where you are, due to less conservative attire? Either way she's implied she's more free to behave in certain ways where she is from than she can with you. That shows she accepts some of it is down to her.
Ask directly if Pam said what she did to her? Gague her opinion maybe? I don't think you've done anything too wrong, and maybe Sam hasn't either. It seems it's the H's who have overstepped- some men are grimly obvious about fancying others when there is no need to be. If she hadn't realised your DH's feelings, she does now, which is fine and probably a good thing as she can now assess and consider what she wants to do about it.

category12 · 27/12/2022 19:49

Comeonbarbiebrianharvey · 27/12/2022 19:30

She text you a thank you then text your DH, then randomly text how are you feeling?
It's weird. Her reaction is OTT. She's not a good friend.

I feel like it's not random at all, like the DH said to her "shit, she's suspecting something's up, find out what's going on with her and smooth her down" and she was doing that, and now has reversed Victim and Offender to shut OP down.

StarGoddess · 27/12/2022 20:07

Opentooffers · 27/12/2022 19:47

So both Pam and you are concerned about your husbands. Pam could be a common denominator, but hard to know if because she's a flirt or simply so good looking that all men notice .
However, by what she says it seems she is a big flirt back home - that's interesting, culturally maybe more hidden behaviour is possible, whereas more obvious over where you are, due to less conservative attire? Either way she's implied she's more free to behave in certain ways where she is from than she can with you. That shows she accepts some of it is down to her.
Ask directly if Pam said what she did to her? Gague her opinion maybe? I don't think you've done anything too wrong, and maybe Sam hasn't either. It seems it's the H's who have overstepped- some men are grimly obvious about fancying others when there is no need to be. If she hadn't realised your DH's feelings, she does now, which is fine and probably a good thing as she can now assess and consider what she wants to do about it.

I think I put it together but it depends. Does she mean that in muslim cultures it’s okay to flirt with married men because it’s normalized to marry 4 or less women so she sends them as open for the taking because they normally would be with just one wife? Please correct me if I’ve got it all wrong.

Alracalpaca · 27/12/2022 20:12

StarGoddess · 27/12/2022 20:07

I think I put it together but it depends. Does she mean that in muslim cultures it’s okay to flirt with married men because it’s normalized to marry 4 or less women so she sends them as open for the taking because they normally would be with just one wife? Please correct me if I’ve got it all wrong.

She's not religious at all and doesn't follow Islamic traditions, and I don't think her friends from home do either. I know one of her close friends at home is a lesbian, and as a result I have the impression that the friendship group is fairly liberal. So I don't really know how it's different there than here, but I didn't ask because I didn't have the emotional bandwidth at that time to dig into her feelings.

OP posts:
StarGoddess · 27/12/2022 20:18

Alracalpaca · 27/12/2022 20:12

She's not religious at all and doesn't follow Islamic traditions, and I don't think her friends from home do either. I know one of her close friends at home is a lesbian, and as a result I have the impression that the friendship group is fairly liberal. So I don't really know how it's different there than here, but I didn't ask because I didn't have the emotional bandwidth at that time to dig into her feelings.

I see. Perhaps I was mistaken then. It was quite a vague comment. I guess you won’t know unless you ask her directly. Though it might be best to just leave it be for now unless more dirt is unearthed between them. Focus on you for a bit and try to figure out your feelings till then. 💐

Alracalpaca · 27/12/2022 20:20

StarGoddess · 27/12/2022 20:18

I see. Perhaps I was mistaken then. It was quite a vague comment. I guess you won’t know unless you ask her directly. Though it might be best to just leave it be for now unless more dirt is unearthed between them. Focus on you for a bit and try to figure out your feelings till then. 💐

Yes, I am going to take some time for myself to try and get some clarity for myself. My head feels scrambled at the moment.

OP posts:
2bazookas · 27/12/2022 20:27

OP, time to have a chat with Pamela and compare notes.

If nothing else, it may bring home to DH what kind of woman Linda is.

Mumofnarnia · 27/12/2022 20:33

2bazookas · 27/12/2022 20:27

OP, time to have a chat with Pamela and compare notes.

If nothing else, it may bring home to DH what kind of woman Linda is.

Yes I agree. Pamela seems to be the key person here and may know something the op doesn’t. I’d definitely be asking Pamela to elaborate on this ‘dream’ she told Sam she had because it seems to me that she was indirectly trying to warn Sam that she suspects there may be something going on between her and op’s husband.