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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I did something completely idiotic on Christmas and I feel horrible

148 replies

Alracalpaca · 27/12/2022 15:07

I have posted here before and gotten some really wise insight, feedback and objective opinions from many of you, so I am turning here again. I have been married for 7 years to a man I love with all my heart. We moved to a different country a few years ago and since them we have built a small but close expat friendship group. One of my closest friends (we will call her Linda) and I have bonded due to our very similar personalities and also supporting each other through periods of depression and other mental health issues. About 2 and a half years ago I started noticing that my husband expressed an interest in Sam's comings and goings and whether she would be joining group gatherings etc. Way more than he ever has for any other friend. Offering to go pick her up or drop her off when she visited etc. Just nice small gestures, but things he wouldn't usually do. I also saw a shift in body language when he was around her. He looked at her... the way he used to look at me. Sam is beautiful, interesting, talented and does cool stuff like play video games and play drums. Obviously she's like a walking male fantasy. So that hurt, but I know attraction is a normal thing and it happens. So when my husband again kept asking about her I confronted him about it. He weakly denied it. Then I told him to please stop lying to me and that I understand attraction is normal but that if you don't indulge it, it should pass. So he then stopped denying it. He never expressly admitted it. But anyway. Another friend of ours (who I did not discuss this with) told Sam that she had a dream that Sam slept with my husband and that she was so upset about it because it hurt me. Now, it could be nothing, but knowing this friend, she communicates in very indirect ways and I think she picked up on something and was warning Sam indirectly. I made a point of spending time with Sam mostly alone. Sometimes we would spend time in a group but I assumed he was focusing on his marriage and letting this little crush pass. Then Christmas rolled around. All our friends were coming to ours for lunch. She had been travelling the days prior, so when I mentioned she was coming he said "Sam's coming?" and his eyes lit up. I felt a pang. My stomach dropped a bit. But I let it go. On the day he was snapping at me for every small irritation. Sam would go stand outside and smoke and he would be right behind her following her outside. When he noticed that I was sad and withdrawing he finally started to be affectionate after snapping the whole day. But the damage was kind of done. I had been drinking excessively and was not thinking straight. Sam also noticed I was not okay. My husband and I were cleaning up and I was planning on going to bed because I knew I was drunk and upset and I didn't want to fight when I was in that state. I accidentally picked up his phone instead of mine (we have the same phone models and standard black cases) and I saw there was a text from her. I couldn't see what it said. I gave him his phone and walked away. I went to lie in bed and I was crying uncontrollably. She then texted me and asked me "how do you feel" and I said "about what?" she then said "just checking in" and I responded "meh." She said she knew something was up and could I please tell her. After a bit of back and forth I STUPIDLY I KNOW I KNOW told her the whole story. Immediately she said she wants to die and she never intended for anything to be misinterpreted etc etc and that she needs to remember she's not back home in her home country and she can't behave the same way here. And that I'm her closest friend and she doesn't want to lose that. She kind of made it 100% about her which was a bit jarring but I totally understand she was caught off guard. She then sent me screenshots of the text she sent. It was a thank you for hosting with a heart emoji. He responded "always a pleasure" with a little blush smile emoji. The text above it was a thank you for a happy birthday text he sent her. With two heart emojis. But that is how she texts with other people too so I don't think she meant anything by that. Anyway the next morning I wake up to a very long text from her where she said that she opened up to me and trusted me and felt welcome in my home. And why did I not tell her this earlier, why did I wait until she was feeling most vulnerable to tell her this. And that she can't see us getting past this. I was really taken aback because she's acting like I maliciously plotted to hurt her and accused her of hitting on my husband when I expressly and repeatedly said I am not angry with her and I don't think she did anything wrong. I know I put her in a horrible position by telling her. I know that. And I apologized profusely for that and I know that was wrong and selfish and horrible of me. But I didn't do it maliciously. I was hurt and vulnerable and drunk and I stupidly cracked. I confronted my husband and he told me that he doesn't want to be with her. And that he is sorry for how he behaved. I told him he needs to decide whether he wants to explore other options, in which case he needs to leave, or whether he's going to focus on his marriage. He chose the latter. He keeps saying he never had a crush on her and he doesn't know how to convince me of that. I don't know what to believe. But regardless, now my friendship is ruined and I am an idiot. I just really didn't realize how hurt and angry she would be by me being honest. Anyway... how would you approach this situation going forward?

OP posts:
Tittyfilarious81 · 27/12/2022 16:21

@WeepingSomnambulist she would have been well aware that the ops husband was attracted to her and she was the 1 who told op about a dream another friend had that she's slept with ops husband

KettrickenSmiled · 27/12/2022 16:22

Alracalpaca · 27/12/2022 15:52

So I need to clarify some stuff: she texted after everyone had left, she texted me separately at the same time saying thanks too. I never ever had a go at her or blamed her for any of it, it's just her extreme reaction to me being honest that has really caught me off guard. She was the one who told me about our other friend (let's call her Pamela) and her dream about Sam and my husband. She has also said that she knows Pamela thinks her (Sam's) behaviour towards Pamela's husband is overly flirtatious but thinks she is insecure and overreacting. I personally haven't seen anything that I interpreted as flirty, otherwise she would not still have been my friend. And my husband is truly not a letch. He has never given me a single reason to doubt his loyalty. His behaviour is very subtle, so much so that I am going back and forth about whether I misinterpreted the whole thing.

Ah come on - this is just Sam, hiding in plain sight.
This is more bullshit, the thrill of transgressive behaviour, of making both you & Pamela feel insecure, keeping you wondering what she knows about your husbands' responses to her that you don't.

She's toying with the pair of you.
This is a dominance display - she's enjoying how much she can taunt you & see how much bullshit you'll take - "the duper's delight". (See also "sociopathic/narcissistic smirk")
lbibinders.org/dupers-delight/

Mumofnarnia · 27/12/2022 16:22

WeepingSomnambulist · 27/12/2022 16:17

How did she enjoy it? Could you post all the evidence for that assumption and character assassination?

This sam person decided to go and tell the op that another friend had a dream about Sam sleeping with op’s husband. What sort of a friend is Sam to the op top openly tell her that the other friend dreamed of her sleeping with op’s husband.

Jackanorytellanother · 27/12/2022 16:23

I don't think this is salvageable, and Sam's reaction is probably based more on the realisation that she felt too uncomfortable now to continue the friendship than anything to do with your DH. Following her around like a puppy dog on Christmas Day wasn't a good look either! (At any point did you consider that your husbands attention to her was something she maybe tolerated to continue your friendship?)

Your friend might be worried that she is about to be scapegoated over the whole thing and is running very fast away from you both. Not sure I blame her.

It all sounds pretty icky and toxic. Sort your relationship out or prioritise friendships that your DH doesn't want to fawn over. It is not attractive!

LaLuz7 · 27/12/2022 16:25

Mumofnarnia · 27/12/2022 16:22

This sam person decided to go and tell the op that another friend had a dream about Sam sleeping with op’s husband. What sort of a friend is Sam to the op top openly tell her that the other friend dreamed of her sleeping with op’s husband.

I agree. There was zero logical reason for Sam to tell OP about thar dream.

Almost seems like she was taunting OP and sowing the seed of insecurity in her mind.

5128gap · 27/12/2022 16:26

WeepingSomnambulist · 27/12/2022 16:16

@KettrickenSmiled

She sent them both a thank you text. Not just the husband.

The OP literally hasnt said anything this woman has done wrong.

This is sketchy man's behaviour being blamed on the woman, who hasnt acted in any way out of line with him.

On the contrary. The woman has committed the unforgivable crime of being both beautiful and interesting around men. Any woman who cares about her friends knows its her duty to be as plain and dull as possible to avoid tempting men away from their rightful owners. Obviously we can't fully control men (bless 'em!) so we have to try and control other women to head off problems before they occur.

MyNameisMathilda · 27/12/2022 16:27

I once had a friend trying to hint to me that a certain woman was one I should stay away from. It turns out that my friend knew the certain woman and my ex H were having an affair but didn't want to tell me. I don't know why people don't tell - guess they don't want involved.
I also had another friend tell me that my ex H had made a pass at her while dancing once and I was shocked and did not believe it. I just thought that he wasn't the type.
I guess you really don't ever know how people will react.

Andylion · 27/12/2022 16:28

What did Sam mean by this? > she said she needs to remember she's not back home in her home country and she can't behave the same way here

Yes, what exactly did she mean by that?

MyNameisMathilda · 27/12/2022 16:28

SAM doth protest too much I think!

Mumofnarnia · 27/12/2022 16:29

LaLuz7 · 27/12/2022 16:25

I agree. There was zero logical reason for Sam to tell OP about thar dream.

Almost seems like she was taunting OP and sowing the seed of insecurity in her mind.

Yes definitely. I would never tell my friend that another person had dreamt I’d slept with her husband. That’s just nasty and seemed she got some sort of enjoyment from doing so. Also the person who told Sam about the dream thinks Sam is also flirtatious with her own husband too… which again is another odd thing to say to the OP straight after telling her about the dream.

WeepingSomnambulist · 27/12/2022 16:38

This Pamela woman has accused sam of being flirty around her husband and then tells her she dreamt that she slept with a friend's husband. If I was sam, I would feel pretty attacked. And yeah, I would go to my closest friend to talk about it. The OP says that she and Sam are particularly close. If sam is feeling that Pamela is accusing her of things or creating stories/drama then that is very innocent reason to go and talk to her closest friend.

Women who are charismatic/pretty/interesting and very often treated with suspicion by married women. No one blames the husband, they blame the woman for being pretty and interesting and tempting their husbands. Like pamela has. And Pamela tried to stir up trouble by suggesting sam was doing something with that stupid dream story.

Mumsnet loves to blame the woman for things, but this woman didnt seem to have done anything other than have other women feel threaten by someone pretty and interesting.

BadNomad · 27/12/2022 16:39

Sam is definitely aware of your husband's crush on her. Everyone is aware. It seems to be you who is a bit oblivious of Sam. She likely enjoys the attention, but is panicking now because people have noticed and she knows it makes her look bad so she's desperately playing the victim and trying to gain sympathy.

Luana1 · 27/12/2022 16:40

Sounds to me that your husband has a massive crush on Linda/Sam but judging by the messages she hasn't actually done anything wrong.

Mumofnarnia · 27/12/2022 16:46

WeepingSomnambulist · 27/12/2022 16:38

This Pamela woman has accused sam of being flirty around her husband and then tells her she dreamt that she slept with a friend's husband. If I was sam, I would feel pretty attacked. And yeah, I would go to my closest friend to talk about it. The OP says that she and Sam are particularly close. If sam is feeling that Pamela is accusing her of things or creating stories/drama then that is very innocent reason to go and talk to her closest friend.

Women who are charismatic/pretty/interesting and very often treated with suspicion by married women. No one blames the husband, they blame the woman for being pretty and interesting and tempting their husbands. Like pamela has. And Pamela tried to stir up trouble by suggesting sam was doing something with that stupid dream story.

Mumsnet loves to blame the woman for things, but this woman didnt seem to have done anything other than have other women feel threaten by someone pretty and interesting.

Whilst I understand what you are saying and I do agree that you could be right, Pamela’s dream was just that…. A dream! And not real so should have been taken with a punch of salt and not got back to the op. So I cannot see how Pamela was trying to stir up trouble apart from to indirectly warn Sam that she suspects something may be going on between her and op’s husband. And if Pamela did suspect something then Sam should have raised the issue with Pamela, there was no need for Sam to go and tell the OP about that dream.
If Pamela had said to me that she had a dream that I was sleeping with another friend’s husband I’d be extremely shocked and make it extremely clear to Pamela that I’m not like that and would certainly never sleep with a someone’s husband. I wouldn’t run to tell the friend that Pamela had said she’d had a dream about it.

emptythelitterbox · 27/12/2022 16:46

You're husband is a tit and needs to wind his urges in.

Sam is no friend. There are some women particularly with past abuse and mental issues who will fuck other women's partners/husbands just for the attention.

Ditch Sam.

Willowswood · 27/12/2022 16:48

Sorry, the opening post is far too long

LikeTearsInRain · 27/12/2022 16:51

Could they have had sex OP?

Alracalpaca · 27/12/2022 16:53

LikeTearsInRain · 27/12/2022 16:51

Could they have had sex OP?

I don't think so. I really think this is a crush and nothing else has happened.

OP posts:
Seeingadistance · 27/12/2022 17:05

Mix56 · 27/12/2022 15:43

they are both guilty, she is gaslighting you, he is a lying Dick

Yep, I agree with this.

Josette77 · 27/12/2022 17:06

Guilty what? Sam being attractive and charismatic? She has done nothing wrong.

Katrinawaves · 27/12/2022 17:07

You are allowed to end friendships at any time for any reason. Sam is clearly a threat to your marriage whether deliberately or not and if you want the marriage to succeed it sounds like you need to call time on the friendship.

SomethingOriginal2 · 27/12/2022 17:09

Alracalpaca · 27/12/2022 15:52

So I need to clarify some stuff: she texted after everyone had left, she texted me separately at the same time saying thanks too. I never ever had a go at her or blamed her for any of it, it's just her extreme reaction to me being honest that has really caught me off guard. She was the one who told me about our other friend (let's call her Pamela) and her dream about Sam and my husband. She has also said that she knows Pamela thinks her (Sam's) behaviour towards Pamela's husband is overly flirtatious but thinks she is insecure and overreacting. I personally haven't seen anything that I interpreted as flirty, otherwise she would not still have been my friend. And my husband is truly not a letch. He has never given me a single reason to doubt his loyalty. His behaviour is very subtle, so much so that I am going back and forth about whether I misinterpreted the whole thing.

So she's told you that another friend has dreamed about herself and your husband having sex. And she's told you that another friend thinks she's too flirty to their husband.

I definitely think she was scoping you out to see if you'd noticed anything between them.

And the "how are you feeling... just checking in" bit, it also suspicious, like she's, again, checking what you know. I'll go back and double check but this bit was after you'd told DH you were upset but before you'd told her. Yet it seems like she knew.

I don't like it. Her reaction is very over the top making herself the victim of a non existent crime.

MysteryBelle · 27/12/2022 17:16
  1. you did nothing wrong
  2. drop samlinda like a hot potato if you have one modicum of sense
  3. dh is repulsive and I’d drop him too.
  4. do not allow samlinda anywhere near you or your home or anything ever again. Wake up. She’s a sleaze and unfortunately so is your dh. Do better than him.
UWhatNow · 27/12/2022 17:19

Mumsnet loves to blame the woman for things, but this woman didnt seem to have done anything other than have other women feel threaten by someone pretty and interesting.

Exactly! I never understand threads like this. Obsessing over attractive friend says x,y and z or attractive friend did x,y and z. Nothing said about the lechy husband.

The friend has actually done nothing wrong. She isn’t the one who has made vows to you.

Your husband has betrayed you by flirting and encouraging her attention and he is a disrespectful prick. Dump both of them.

Bertha21 · 27/12/2022 17:19

I don’t understand why Sam thanked him for a good evening and not you. That message itself would ring alarm bells for me. Your husband hasn’t put you first. I think you both need to step back from Sam.

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