I invited a friend to stay at my ex's house for Christmas, but my ex doesn't know; what should I do?

[Frictionless]

I am a divorced man. I am single, and live in the Philippines. Last Christmas I had a girlfriend, this year I am 'all alone'. I do however have a 'close friend', whom I first met in May and we live a couple of hours' flight apart. Said friend has had plans to visit the UK over Christmas/New Year since before I knew her.

About a month ago my ex-wife (also from the Philippines) told me that she had received a court order to leave our former marital home (4 bedroom, rented) by the middle of January. Bearing in mind she had been first told to leave in May but had not found anywhere to stay, possibly due to being on Universal Credit (as well as working full time), I said 'well why don't I come and help you find somewhere' and stay there over Christmas, which made sense also as I can see my parents and son, whom I haven't seen since the beginning of 2020 (my daughter came to stay over summer in 2021 and 2022 for two months each time). She said 'I'll ask my boyfriend if that's ok', and she came back and said 'it is'.

So I booked return flights to the UK from the beginning of December returning in the middle of January and have been here for 2 weeks now. I have found a place for her to stay, although it is not clear if we will be accepted (I have offered to pay six months rent in advance and provide a guarantor), we will hear on Monday.

My friend is a workaholic and it's not particularly suitable for me to visit her where she lives in that she lives in a house-share mid week and with her parents on the weekend, so if I took a flight to see her for no reason she wouldn't have a lot of time to see me. So she is coming to the UK for a holiday.

I said to her 'the weather is shit in the UK, why don't we go to Morocco together', and we are doing that for 10 days over New Year. That is settled and not an issue, though my daughter did complain initially - why was I not spending the time with her - in fact it should not be an issue in that my son will be back from uni and therefore my ex is relatively free to do what she wants with her boyfriend and then I have checked my flights back to Asia, and I can change them free of charge, so I will end up staying longer (if my ex wants me to!) until she has a new place to stay.

I said to my friend 'you can come and stay with me over Christmas'. Which is a bit awkward in that I haven't asked my ex about this, so:

• my ex is quite tired from work etc. but today finished for the year, and is going to stay with her boyfriend tomorrow till Monday. On Monday HOPEFULLY she will be able to sign a contract for a house, but that's far from clear.
• I haven't mentioned to my ex about my friend coming to stay AT ALL, but I mentioned about my parents coming over for Christmas and she said 'no, I don't want that while I don't know where I'm going to stay next year' and then she said 'why don't they invite you over?'

I could suggest to my parents that we go over there - they are 100% aware of the situation with my 'close friend', but they are somewhat aged (71) and it's not really clear whether they want Christmas guests, or less still if for example I said nothing till next Tuesday before saying 'uh, would it be ok if I stayed at your place from the 24th to the 27th with my friend & children'. There is another issue with the children, in that our son (20, at university) is autistic and tends to be a bit upset about things which he perceives to be other than as they should be (he likes having people to talk to, so I'm sure there wouldn't be an issue with having an extra Christmas guest), i.e. he previously said 'oh I'm not sure about coming home for Christmas because I spent 15 Christmases in that house and this will be the last one', but he has come to terms with that so to say 'actually we are not going do Christmas here' might not be ideal. So I have offered to pick him up from uni next Wednesday, which he was pleased about because he had some previous issues where he had some mental health problems and asked my ex to pick him up and she was unable to do so and he ended up asking a friend to do so....

So in that sense I could ask my parents 'can I, children + friend come and stay', but I am sure my children would be happiest spending Christmas with both parents at the same address (my parents live 45 minutes away, so it's not TOO far, but it's not the same thing really), and if I said 'we can all go stay there for the 24th till 27th', then I'm sure my children would also want to see their mother.

Our daughter is 15 and met my friend a couple of times over the summer, and my friend was nice to my daughter, buying her a gift, buying and decorating her room for her birthday and taking her to get her hair done. However, I mentioned to her about my friend staying over Christmas and she said 'no, she's annoying', or words to that effect. I discussed it with her first, because I thought that my ex would ask her. I think there's a bit of an issue in that my ex is working class and down-to-earth and this other woman earns much more, has two degrees, has a large disposable income and spends lots of money on her appearance, and is somewhat prim (she has a bit of a thing about Jane Austen etc.), and my daughter said 'mummy is prettier than her'. My daughter asked me earlier 'when are you going to see her?' 'I said 'we are going to the ballet on the 23rd', and my daughter said 'that's quite close to Christmas'

I suppose I should have thought a bit harder before inviting her to stay, but I didn't think it through very carefully.

WWYD?

P.S. I'm not really sure to what extent my friend is really cognizant of the mechanics of this, she as asked me about Christmas gifts for my parents and children but although she knows I am 'helping my ex find a new place to stay', I don't think she's necessarily thought 'oh yes, I am going to spend 4 days with my friend's ex-wife over Christmas'.

> This was meant to say 20 year old bloke not 18. Equally as ridiculously awkward and odd to ask of him especially when you say you son's autism specifically means he finds change / irregularities stressful. Inviting him was totally at odds with what you know he could cope with.

I'm not sure you read what I said clearly. I said specifically that he had a bit of a fixation about his Christmas arrangements and where his mother would stay, not that he finds all forms of change problematic.

When he has come to the Philippines he likes it because he can go and chat with random tourists, who tend to be more friendly when they are on holiday. So he does like friendly new people who he can chat to.

> Why are you getting involved with finding your ex a new home? Why isn't her boyfriend doing that?

? Because my daughter lives with her, the ex lives in his own flat 15 miles away, and it was my ex's stated objective to get evicted, go stay in temporary accommodation and then get a 'council house' (which I don't think will happen). I don't think that this is appropriate so I am intervening on behalf of my daughter. I can't see how this is the bf's responsibility in any respect.

> This is such a passive and ineffective way of living though. And irresponsible when you have children.

Yes it's shit. But I've been like that for the last however many years.

I don't know how I will change. But meeting someone (my 'friend') who is extremely organized and disciplined seems to be a constructive step in that regard.

I think there may be too much of a cultural gap here for most of us to understand your decisions.

But in the simplest terms, most adult women would not be comfortable staying with a man’s ex, her boyfriend and their children. As a 36 year old woman I would not have been comfortable crashing with my man friend’s parents for an extended period over the holidays. But then I wouldn’t book a trip to a far away country with someone I had only met a few times.

It all sounds extremely complicated. But then she sounds fairly strange also.

I'm not sure you read what I said clearly. I said specifically that he had a bit of a fixation about his Christmas arrangements and where his mother would stay, not that he finds all forms of change problematic.

Here: "There is another issue with the children, in that our son (20, at university) is autistic and tends to be a bit upset about things which he perceives to be other than as they should be..." then you went on to mention Christmas as an example.

And if this 'friend' says over Christmas that she's fallen for you, wants to get married and wants to start trying for a baby, what would you do?

Just be honest with the friend and say that xwife isn’t more stressed about the moving house than you thought and it would probably be best you both stay in a hotel near your parents in separate room. Pick up the kids for some of the day and visit the parents. Return kids to their mother and return to the hotel with your friend in two separate rooms.

Is more stressed

So you are a passive ineffectual sort of person who drifted into a relationship with a woman after getting her pregnant and then drifted out many years later leaving behind your children who you rarely see (and I notice you have avoided questions of whether you pay towards your children)

You are now happy to have met an organised and disciplined woman with which you want to start a second family because she can organise your life for you

Meanwhile you think it's okay to gatecrash your children christmas with a woman who isn't even your girlfriend yet, never mind someone you are in a long term relationship with.

You constantly make passive aggressive remarks about your exs partner but this is at least the second time you are introducing your daughter to another woman and you barely see her.

How about instead of worrying about the next 40 years, you concentrate on the next 4 weeks and on your children before they decide you aren't worth the effort of spending time with any more

I think your Christmas plan is going to backfire.

Generally if a woman is considering whether or not to have a child with a particular man, she will be looking at the kind of father he is or might be.

You're planning to bail out on your existing children (including the one you haven't even seen for 2 years) to go off on a holiday. On top of that you're also prioritising a trip to the ballet on one of the few nights that you will be in the same country as your children.

If she's independently wealthy, she doesn't need your money.

She can see that you're not particularly paternal.

The only thing you'd be of any use to her for is to provide sperm - and as a man in his 40s, even that isn't going to be top-quality.

> This is such a passive and ineffective way of living though. And irresponsible when you have children.

Yes it's shit. But I've been like that for the last however many years.

Do you take responsibility for anything? FFS. Do better. It's not hard.

This all sounds intensely creepy

Also she could be your girlfriend, just because you haven't had sex (yet) doesn't make her your friend, or your 'friend' or your #friend or your ¡friend!...

But your insistence on the terms bring separate does reveal an odd transactional way you think about relationships.

And she sounds a right odd sort as well with her suitors and her money and her mother and her Standards and workaholism. Those next 40 years will fly by.

I hope you earn plenty to pay for therapy for your kids.

Ffs put your poor children first, you selfish, self-centred emotional cheapskate.

Op what ended up happening?

Stop talking. Please.

I've attempted to read some of this thread and my head has got completely over heated!

There were some requests for updates, sorry I lost the original account.

I did omit some of the context from the original thread, lol, I will give that now, this is purely for amusement purposes, if anyone is amused. If not, ok.

My, ahem, friend ('Amelia') is a bit odd in that she 'befriends' (via Tinder) intelligent but ineffectual men, and she has a collection of them scattered around the UK and Europe, some of whom she has known for several years. She told me about this, and told me that she had been invited by one of these ineffectual friends to stay with him over Christmas, but didn't want to stay there because they live in a village, and she prefers to be near shops and so on. So ok, I said 'why don't you spend Christmas with me'. Which she accepted.

Now the original plan with said friend was as follows:

1. ineffectual friend would pick her up from Heathrow and take her to his flat (inherited from his recently deceased father) on the 22nd of December
2. then I would meet her on the 23rd at the ballet and then stay with me over Christmas until the 27th

3, then she was going to see the ineffectual friend again from the 27th to the 30th, whereupon I was going to meet her for our trip to Morocco, thereafter she would stay with me in Morocco, and then come back to the UK for 2 nights before flying back to the Philippines.

In terms of my ex, what had happened was:

1. I told her that I wanted my parents to come round, which would have meant my daughter sleeping with my ex so they would have my daughter's room. She said 'no, unless you can sort out a new house for me before Christmas'. We made offers on a couple of places but they weren't accepted.
2. I then said 'well my parents can stay at home, but I've already promised Amelia can stay over Christmas, she can sleep with me'. She wasn't happy, but acquiesced finally on the 23rd (we'd made an offer on a house on the 22nd, which involved offering to pay 12 months' rent in advance, and this was rejected on the 23rd), because she could see I wasn't really offering an alternative. Shortly after that she said 'well if your girlfriend is coming over my boyfriend will also come over for Christmas'

So I went to London on the 23rd and met Amelia at the ballet as planned. She was jet-lagged and falling asleep. After that we tried to get back to my ex's house, but the trains shut down early so that wasn't possible.

At this point she said 'I have the key to ineffectual friend's flat, we can sleep there'. At the time this seemed like a good idea, rather than paying for a taxi back.

After we got in his flat, which has two bedrooms but one belongs to his lodger, she brought me into his bedroom, and I said 'where will I sleep?' And she said 'next to me in this bed.' This I felt was a bit off, as she had evidently slept there with him last night, but ok.

We went to sleep and early the next morning went to the station to get back to my ex's house. After we got on the train I said 'my ex didn't want my parents over for Christmas, she's having her boyfriend over instead' Her face changed instantly and said 'your ex is there?' I said 'yes, I told you I was going to stay with my ex over Christmas to help her find a new place to stay.' She said 'I wasn't aware of this', and tried to get off the train, but the doors had just locked, so she was not able to do so.

She immediately contacted the ineffectual friend to ask him to spend Christmas with him.

We got to my stop, and she said she was going to get the train to his house. I said 'ah if you want to go there, that was the train we were just on, and then a change, so you'll have to wait an hour till the next one.'

So we went to McDonalds and had breakfast. Eventually she said 'can I come to your house for a minute and drop my suitcase off'. I should have said 'no, it's a bad idea to go there and immediately leave, but I can bring it for you', but I wasn't sure if she was actually going to leave, so I just let her come along.

My ex was there and was friendly to her, offered a cup of tea and so on, but Amelia was covering her face with her hand as she was embarrassed, and she basically sat in the kitchen for about 3 minutes before going upstairs to take things out of her suitcase.

She took out elaborate Christmas presents for me, my daughter, my son, my parents, and also various cakes, etc and then got me to take her to the station.

After Amelia left on the train, I sent her a message saying 'I hope you have a nice Christmas with Henry'.

Note that she never told me the name of Ineffectual Friend ('Henry'), but having slept in his house, there was a funeral notice for his father on the kitchen table, so I found out exactly who he was.

I had not done any shopping for Christmas food so after dropping her off I drove to four different supermarkets to find cream, turkey, etc., as it was now Christmas Eve.

After I got home my ex said 'my boyfriend said he was going to come over because your girlfriend is here, but now he doesn't want to'. But eventually he did anyway, and stayed for Christmas Eve dinner before leaving to see his ex-wife and children.

After this, I saw Amelia's Instagram that night (Christmas), and she had posted a video of her leaving on the train from my stop with 'I am disappointed' music playing. So I replied saying 'you really should take the consequences for your actions: Henry asked you to stay over for Christmas, you refused because you wanted to stay with me. I think you should take the consequences of your actions and either stay with me, stay on your own over Christmas, or find a flight back home, you shouldn't take advantage of him'.

She said 'I'm not going to end up with him.'

I said 'I didn't ask what you want, you've known this man for 3 years, he follows you round like a puppy dog, you need to be honest with him.'

I'd already agreed, on Christmas Eve to see my parents on Boxing Day with my children, and Amelia, but not with my ex, but I told them on Christmas Day that she'd left in a hurry and they said 'oh'

So on Boxing Day morning I contacted Amelia and said 'have you decided what you will do with the rest of your time?' After a few messages she said 'I'm bored here, please help me out'. I said 'I'm going to my parents' house, if you want to come'. She said 'I don't want to stay with your ex'. I said 'she's going to stay with her boyfriend, you can stay here.' And she said 'please pick me up'.

Bear in mind this is an 85 mile/90 minute journey, one-way, and I said 'ok'.

So my ex came back from the gym and I said 'can I use your car to pick up Amelia'. And she said 'what?! She should get a taxi!' But agreed, while being quite annoyed with this woman.

I went to pick her up and then we drove over to my parents' house for Boxing Day and then that evening we came back to my ex's house.

The next day we (Amelia, me and my children) went out to dinner, and bowling. She had told me that Henry had asked to meet her before she went to Morocco, in London. I said 'when are you planning to go, my ex asked.' I said 'please don't contact Henry immediately, it's not clear why she's asking'. But she ignored me and did that anyway, so arranged to go stay with him in London tonight and tomorrow night before I fly with her to Morocco.

So I walked with Amelia earlier to a coffee shop in order that she wouldn't meet my ex before she came home, before she got on the train to meet Henry. Henry was running late, because he was busy with his elderly mother.

As far as I was concerned, Amelia could just stay in a nearby hotel for the next two nights until we went to the airport. But she preferred to contact Henry, who was of course willing to get on the train for two hours to come and put her up in his flat.

As it turned out my ex just came home for two hours, and has gone off again with her boyfriend till January 1st. So Amelia didn't really need to leave at all - we could have just hung out in a coffee shop if she wanted to avoid my ex for a couple of hours. But my ex wasn't letting on her plans, because she was (quite reasonably) not impressed with Amelia's behaviour and wasn't trying to make her life easier by saying at the earliest opportunity 'I'm not going to be sleeping there until New Year'.

So there we are, next I meet Amelia at Gatwick on the 30th.

Thank you for that update! It really makes me appreciate my life which is clean, uncluttered and without a hint of seediness in comparison to yours.

Too much bollocks to read it all

what was clear though was that it’s all about you and your friend, not much about your kids. You can’t be arsed to see them really can you.

Henry is a mug.

Amelia is using all the various men in her glamorous jet setting life. I suspect she's very lonely.
Ex is more tolerant than I would be.
Ex's boyfriend probably sighs every time ex brings you up in conversation.
Your parents probably wish you would grow up.
Your DC will grow more and more distant from you. They will probably need therapy in the not too distant future.
You are a fantasist.

And you have summarised a verbose thread very well

I think you're all unhinged

> Henry is a mug.

Not quite that simple I think.

He is 45, son of a prominent lawyer, has done nothing with his life. But Amelia has encouraged him to train into a more suitable career.

She said 'I'm not going to end up with him'

I said 'I didn't ask that. I said you are not being fair to him, concocting stories about your friend coming down with norovirus, having other men sleep in his bed and not making clear to him that he should find himself a wife, someone other than you.'

A little later she told me that my gait, hand gestures, way of sitting were all insufficiently masculine, and I should sit with my legs more apart, etc. I said 'come off it, clearly you like befriending effete men and telling them what to do and have them chase you around.'

She said 'Henry is masculine'.

I said 'You told me the reason you were not going to end up with him is that because you've known him for three years and he's never made concrete steps to form a relationship with you, how is that masculine?!'

She conceded that this wasn't really the point and that rather that she thinks he is a bit useless and likely to remain so, but she hasn't, in fact, ruled him out, and obviously enjoys having him chase her around. (He has already somehow promised to meet up with her again after she comes back from Morocco.)

> Amelia is using all the various men in her glamorous jet setting life.

Yes, she did IT at university and has no natural aptitude for it, and apparently befriended the nerdiest man there, and he taught her what to do.

> I suspect she's very lonely.

Well she sees her parents every weekend, meets up with her siblings, has lots of friends and is well respected at work, so I don't think it's that simple.

What she did tell me in some detail that she was thinking about egg freezing until she found out how they took out the eggs. She is a strict Catholic and apparently a smear test is also unthinkable. And there is not really 'having a boyfriend' for her, it's either 'male friends' or 'husband', with not very much in between.

I had not met her since September and we only met in restaurants etc., and since then we spoke a lot over video chat, and having met her again she is now for the first time very touchy-feely in a limited Catholic way. But it seems to me that this is compartmentalized in that she is thousands of miles away from home on holiday and is enjoying being the object of attention briefly, but she's soon enough going to go back to her 8am-10pm job without having the annoyance of having to manage a full-time relationship. And I get the impression she doesn't ever utter any words of loving commitment, and even if there's a man she likes very much, she's happy to go and do her job for 3 weeks and forget all about him during that time.

> Your DC will grow more and more distant from you.

My daughter came to visit me in 2021 when I had a very possessive and jealous girlfriend. I ended things with that girlfriend for that reason, and in 2022 I was on my own and my daughter and I spent six weeks travelling together and she was very close to me.

Amelia bought her a number of gifts and is not controlling like my previous girlfriend, however it is awkward in that I suppose I have been closer to my daughter than my wife for pretty much all her life, so I feel that any woman is problematic here. (My daughter is close to my ex's boyfriend; I feel that this is a different dynamic.)

My son is happy to have other people around to talk to, and Amelia is supportive of him. I feel it's a positive thing from his perspective.

This is amazing.

The collection of “ineffectual men scattered around Europe”. Are you one of them?

Or are you different?