Please help me with this.

[CastIronFire]

I posted about this on chat a couple of weeks ago.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4687973-can-someone-explain-this-to-me-please?reply=121907012

I didn't end it because I couldn't quite bring myself to do so.

Is there really no other solution?

It's unbearable now. I can't speak to him and haven't seen him. I don't want to see him. I don't want to interrupt or disturb him in case he's thinking of someone else. I don't want to see him or go out with him in case he sees someone else.

After the thread, I did a lot of reading online. Stuff by psychologists and relationship therapists and all of them say its healthy to fantasise about other people sexually and that it makes sex better if the person you are having sex with is thinking about someone else! I also read that it happens several times a day and people are wrong for considering it to be 'microcheating'.

How have I got this so wrong?

I just don't understand. What is the point in going out with someone if you are constantly lusting after other people? What is the point? I don't need someone to mow my lawns, provide for me financially, help cook the dinner. I can either do those things myself or pay someone to do it.

It just feels like the model is you fancy someone and pursue them until you get them and then you spend the relationship being sexually attracted to other people.

Ir that you go out with someone 'un your keague' and then use them to fantasise about other people you find more desirable.

I thought itight he something that happened occasionally but to read it happens several times a day for most people has just destroyed me. It's all I can think about.

None of the other stuff he does or we have feels like it matters anymore and the only thing that does is that I'm not enough because, according to the internet, he's going to be constantly being briefly sexually aroused by everyone from the woman who serves him coffee to colleagues to actors in films he is watching and just supposed to be ok with that because it'll make our sex life better for him.

I don't even want to have sex with him anymore because of the fear of it.

It's making me ill.

He couldn't be lovelier to me. I can see by his actions that he loves me but it feels meaningless in the face of this.

His compliments feel like insults and I just feel unattractive and worthless.

I haven’t read the first thread so if I’m missing something major then I apologise.

In the nicest way possible, you need to have some therapy and work on your self esteem.

People will always find other people attractive. Males and females. It’s natural. I love plants, but I also love flowers. I am married but my goodness, I definitely fantasise about other men.

I've just had a quick look at your other thread.

When you fancy someone unattainable- like an actor or pop star - it's just a fantasy. A bit like when you get really absorbed in a story, be it a book, film or TV series. It can trigger feelings (in the case of a crush, attraction) but they're shallow, they don't mean anything.

Sometimes a crush is a reflection of how we might feel about ourselves. Eg - when I found myself fancying an older actor, at the time I was feeling a bit lost in life and insecure. The actor represented a feeling of security that I was seeking.

As a teenager, pop stars I fancied tended to represent the excitement and glamour that I believed awaited me in adulthood. In reality of course, much of adulthood is fairly dull (housework and taxes)! I might still have a passing fancy for some of these pop stars, because they're a reminder of that time in my life and the excitement I felt for the future. They're not actually relevant now or reflective of how I see myself / who I am.

Does that make sense?

Sometimes as well, the people we fancy reflections of who we might like to be, or a reflection of an escape from real life. Not that you are to be escaped from...But if in my imagination I was slim with a sparkly wit and a different life and personality, then perhaps that gorgeous Hollywood a lister would fancy me and we'd travel between red carpets on private jets.

In reality, of course, I'm not that person and I wouldn't enjoy that lifestyle - but the fantasy can be enjoyed in the same way I enjoy a good book.

In reality, if I met the people I fancied I wouldn't fancy them anymore. They say "don't meet your heroes" for a reason and I've met enough people in the public eye to know that it's true enough!

Some people, rarely, might still fancy a person once they've met them. This might be because they're ignoring the reality and focusing on their fantasy. But they still wouldn't cheat, because the love and respect they have for their partner is the true emotion.

You are real. And your partner fancies you because you are you. Because you look like the way you do, smell and act like the way you do. Because of the things that make you laugh and the things you say. Because he likes the person he is around you and you make him feel good.

It would be a real shame to throw that away because you're struggling to get your head around this. I wonder if you need a bit more time to adjust to this concept? Or that you should talk to your partner about your worries and upset so that he can reassure you.

Ultimately however, if you can get past it then you're entitled to end the relationship.

I believe your experience of attraction is demi-sexuality and I wonder if it would help to talk to other demisexuals?

Thank you.

I don't. It's never occurred to me to do so and I've never felt the need to.

For me, its what separates the person I'm dating from friends and strangers. For me to fancy someone else, I'd stop being attracted to the man I was with.

I just feel like now he's got me, I no longer matter. I'm no longer and attractive and desirable to him. I fel like I'm intruding or interrupting his thoughts about someone else if I contact him.

I worry about it constantly now.

I had a boyfriend when I was 19 who wouldn't gave sex with me because his feelings for Marilyn Monroe meant he felt he was betraying her. I dated someone at 26 and, after a week on holiday, he went straight back to his to watch film with an actress he lasted after because he'd missed her.

I haven't really had many relationships and me not being good enough has been a recurring theme.

It's like a reminder of all that.

I wouldn't feel this bad if he cheated because at least he'd have chosen someone real over me rather than an imagined perfection i could never live up to. I know this because i was with holiday man for about 10 years and did have an affair eventually and married her. That made sense.

There's so much in here I could quote and respond to!

I don't think he does like how he feels when he is with me anymore because I'm aware of how my withdrawal affects him. He messaged and asked to come over last night and I made excuses to put him off. I can't bear being in the same room as him bevause of how i feel about this and myself.

It being a fantasy doesn't help because a fantasy is perfection and what you wish for/really want. How can I be better than that?

I can't talk to him because I'm scared to hear what he might say and for his words to hurt me forever. As for reassurances, I always think people are lying when they offer reassurances. It feels like telling someone they are wrong.

I don't want someone to be with me out of duty or nobility.

I've read some demi sexuality reddirs on the back of the other thread. I hare labels like that but thought it might offer an insight but I don't recognise myself in them rather. They all seem to fancy their friends. So still multiple people at once just people they know rather than strangers.

Not that you are to be escaped from...

That's exactly what it feels like.

I'm the 'her indoors' that 80s comedians would deride.

Those exes were dicks and them preferring a fantasy to you wasn't an indication of you not being enough but of them being self absorbed arses who took advantage of your nature.

Another point i forgot to put in my previous post is that we may fancy others while in a committed relationship, we may even fancy others a lot, but the point is that the reality of our relationship trumps that. Its more important, both on paper and in feeling...In a relationship, I fancy other people sometimes but never as much as I desire my partner.

We all take a risk with the people we love that they will continue to choose us, it's why love makes us vulnerable.

I agree with a pp, you need to seek some therapy to help you put to bed the insecurities you carry from the past.

A fantasy is not perfection.

A fantasy is just a way of mentally - and safely- exploring a different reality. Like trying on a different style coat. Remember what I said about enjoying a book? I liked the Hobbit, doesn't mean I'd really want to be in it; however much I might enjoy the fantasy of wondering how I'd act in those adventures and when faced with evil!

You need to explain to him what's going on in your head before you self sabotage this relationship.

we may fancy others while in a committed relationship, we may even fancy others a lot, but the point is that the reality of our relationship trumps that. Its more important, both on paper and in feeling...In a relationship, I fancy other people sometimes but never as much as I desire my partner.

I don't believe that could be true of me.

If the women are objectively more attractive, how could that be?

It's just too confusing and makes no sense.

You need to explain to him what's going on in your head before you self sabotage this relationship

He has asked what the matter is and said he's worried but I can't bring myself to talk about it.

I just don't want him to think it's anything he's done or because I don't love him because it's not and I do but I can't deal with this.

Besides. I don't think there's anything he could say that would make it better.

I read this thread and was going to open with asking have you ever explored as being autistic... but i figured I'd read the OG thread first and can see that was actually your opening line.

It must be so difficult to have these feelings.

As others have said, I also feel it is totally normal to fantasize about others, particularly celebrities. I even watch porn myself occasionally and encourage my partner to do so too if he wanted to. I see it as a normal and healthy outlet. I would never ever cheat in reality and the thought of being with anyone else breaks my heart because he is my everything. All those feelings co-exist simultaneously in me and help me have a healthy, balanced attitude towards love, sex, relationships. I dont get jealous or feel insecure.

From reading your posts I understand that this will likely sound rediculous to you and unfathomable but I assure you these are my genuine, honest feelings and I love and adore my other half more than anything on this earth. There is no reason why your partner doesnt feel tje same way towards you. I hope that reassures you at least a little.

Its OK that you can't relate to how he processes lust/attraction, we are all diffflerent. What matters most is that you trust when he tells you that you are the one for him he means it.

I really hope this doesn't result in you losing a lovong and otherwise stable relationship :(

Could you maybe seek support from a counsellor to talk through your feelings and process these complex emotions?

Unfortunately most people do not stop having natural attraction when in a relationship so if this relationship ends the problem may follow with future relationships. All we can control is how we act on attractions (i.e by not cheating etc)

You seem to be reducing relationships to a matter of physical attraction. Most people are interested in the whole package: physical attraction, sexual spark, intellect, sense of humour, shared values, common interests, emotional intelligence, decency, playfulness, practicality, stability... There are hundreds of factors at play in determining who we choose, and each one of us is seeking the distinctive blend that feels right. I adore my partner. She isn't perfect - I'm not perfect - nobody is perfect. But she has my heart, and that is more than good enough for me.

Oh OP. I was there throughout the other thread, and I'm sorry to see that you sound even more upset now.

You had an absolute ton of excellent advice on the first thread, and you didn't seem to be able to listen to any of it, or even accept that your way is not the typical way of thinking.

I really cannot imagine what anyone could say on another thread to get through to you (although I hope I'm wrong). I strongly believe that you need urgent therapy with a professional to work through these feelings.

Otherwise you are just going to continue tearing yourself - and your lovely relationship - apart. Good luck.

You had an absolute ton of excellent advice on the first thread, and you didn't seem to be able to listen to any of it, or even accept that your way is not the typical way of thinking.

I didncompletely accept it wasn't typical thinking akd wasn't how other people saw it and said so repeatedly.

It just didn't change the way I thought.

I'm going to give this a shot explanation wise as many others have because if it works and helps then great.

So. My partner is with me because he knows me inside and out. We love one another, and there's more to that than physical attraction. It's about loving everything about someone and what makes their personality and attitude shine out to you. You feel that love right down to your bones.

Either one of us might watch a film or a series and think, oh hey, that person is attractive. We may enjoy looking at them more than the others in the film or series.

But that's just it, they are someone famous who is attractive. That's it. When you are in love with someone, you don't just look at them and think "oh wow they're so hot..." You look at them and think "oh wow they're so hot for so many things, the way they smile, how they play with their hair when concentrating on something, how they make you laugh until you can't breathe etc etc .."

That's the difference. You can look at a person and think they are hot to look at. But that's it. That person isn't your boyfriend, they don't make you feel funny inside in the good way, or make you smile if you get an affectionate text from them.

You are not inferior. Quite the opposite.

A good analogy is food.
what’s your favourite meal, one that you’d choose over any other meal on the planet? Your death row meal.

But you still like chocolate, don’t you? And other meals? Chocolate doesn’t change your feelings about your favourite meal.

Reading your threads is exhausting - you must be worn out! Just talk to your boyfriend, avoiding him is cruel. Tell him you’re not comfortable with him fancying other women then move on, or get over it and accept that because he thinks differently to you doesn’t make him bad or untrustworthy.

Your Marilyn Monroe obsessed ex sounds like a nightmare, that is a very extreme behaviour.

Dont leave your boyfriend dangling in limbo like this, especially not at Christmas :-(

I think that you might be able to salvage the relationship, but it might take a lot of work.

I think he wants to be with you because he really likes lots of things about you, and other people won't have that same combination of traits.

For instance, I remember working with a good-looking woman (I'm male, in case that's relevant) but she was a smoker, and I cannot stand being around smoke. So I could see she was attractive-looking but I would not have wanted to be with her. I have several "red lines" like this, so it isn't so easy to find people who tick all the boxes.

Also, I never think about someone else while having sex. I don't think it's true that everyone does that.

If I see an attractive woman, for me it's a bit like seeing a beautiful sunset, or smelling something nice like chocolate. Something in my brain just goes "I like looking at beauty" but I'm not imagining having sex or anything.

Does it occur to you that how you look is only part of why he wants to be with you? It’s not all about who is the most physically attractive - maybe he loves your personality or how you think about the world. He might love a million things about you that are not just how you look.

There’s 10 pages in that other thread trying to explain that fleeting sexual attraction doesn’t and shouldn’t derail a relationship but I don’t really see the point in repeating any of that here

Have you considered therapy?

Dinhop
I am worn out. I've lost my appetite and I'm not sleeping. Work is the only place I'm getting any respite because I'm too busy to actively think but I can still hear it in the background.

I know avoiding him isn't very nice which makes me think he won't want me anymore anyway. I don't know how to come back from this even if I could.

And I know it doesn't make him bad or untrustworthy. It's how it makes me feel about myself and my ability to interact/engage with him and not understanding how I fit into everything for him that is the problem. And I just don't understand it. I can't make it make sense.

Aussiegirl123456
I don't find the food/house/art analogies helpful because, whilst I can see what people mean, it's not the same thing at all. I might have a favourite meal but, when I fancy eating something else it's because I want that more.

dolor
That makes sense.
You are not inferior. Quite the opposite. This is what I'm struggling to understand.

If I see an attractive woman, for me it's a bit like seeing a beautiful sunset, or smelling something nice like chocolate. Something in my brain just goes "I like looking at beauty" but I'm not imagining having sex or anything.

I can tell if someone is good looking. I'm not blind. But I don't have any emotional or physical response to them. I don't find them sexualy attractive on any level.

We spoke about it very briefly the other day. He said that he didn't see any harm in having crushes on other people. He tried to understand me by asking if I think people have a certain amount of love and if you give some to someone, do I think you're taking some away from someone else.

For me, sexual attraction/romantic love is one at a time. So if I had those sorts of feelings for someone else, my feelings for him would be depressed or suppressed. They'd be less anyway.

I don't understand how it's different. It's not that I don't accept it but I don't understand it.

Am I supposed to talk to him if he is more attracted to someone else? Still hold his hand? Sit next to him on the sofa? Kiss him? Have sex with him? Message gim if he's at home and I don't know what he's doing or who he's thinking about? Have sex with him knowing he might be thinking of someone else?

How will talking to him help? How do I trust that his answer is honest?

I have spoken to my friend about it. A previous partner told him she thought about other men while they were having sex. He said he was hurt but made himself get over it. He said he was never really comfortable with it but he wanted to stay in the relationship. That sounds hugely dysfunctional to me. Not something to aspire to.

Gently OP, as you’re clearly struggling and I don’t mean to upset you. I’ve read all of your responses on this and your other thread. I didn’t post there as frankly I found it frustrating.

It seems ( whether because of your neurodivergence or just “you”) that you do not have separate feelings of physical attraction and attraction in its widest sense. That is not the case for the vast majority of people- we can love more than one person, and can also be attracted to someone, physically, emotionally or a combination, without wanting to be with them. Biology is a powerful force and has kept the species going for hundreds of thousands of years- we feel stuff, but we don’t have to act on!

As much as attraction relationship are about choice- you said you wouldn’t want to be with someone if they found someone else attractive, but can you not respect that they have a feeling but choose to honour your commitment because they love you. That’s what separates relationship from friendships I think.

If you can’t accept this or it upsets you too much that’s fine, but you will need to accept you are vanishingly unlikely to find someone who operates the say way as you, so you may be choosing to be single. That’s fine, I have too, but you need to accept the fact or you will always be unhappy.

Maybe invest in some counselling with a specialist in relationships and the autistic brain, as maybe this is one of your fixations.

Good luck & take care.

I've got a suggestion for another way of looking at it. I'm not sure whether it will be helpful or not.

You could look at choosing a partner like a points system. This might sound overly clinical or impersonal to some people, and I certainly don't mean to offend anyone, but it might be an interesting thought exercise if it doesn't seem too strange.

So in my case, for instance, my wife would get "points" because she's intelligent, interesting, funny, good-looking and various other things. She also gets points because we have a load of good shared history together, plus we have kids together, a house, and so on.

It would be very unlikely for me to find someone who would get a higher "points score". Even if they got more points in the "good-looking" category, they would also have to score highly in lots of other categories, and they wouldn't get any points for shared history or kids or anything that builds up over time, so it would be really difficult for them to beat her "score".

Is that an interesting way of looking at it?

That's the best way so far!

We don't have that shared history together but I'll try and think about that today and see of it helps.

It still doesn't help with the immediacy of it though. And I don't really worry about him going off woth omeome else. He light eave le for this or another reason but I don't think he'd go off with someone else. Not at the moment anyway.

It's more the feelings.