Please help me with this.

[CastIronFire]

I posted about this on chat a couple of weeks ago.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4687973-can-someone-explain-this-to-me-please?reply=121907012

I didn't end it because I couldn't quite bring myself to do so.

Is there really no other solution?

It's unbearable now. I can't speak to him and haven't seen him. I don't want to see him. I don't want to interrupt or disturb him in case he's thinking of someone else. I don't want to see him or go out with him in case he sees someone else.

After the thread, I did a lot of reading online. Stuff by psychologists and relationship therapists and all of them say its healthy to fantasise about other people sexually and that it makes sex better if the person you are having sex with is thinking about someone else! I also read that it happens several times a day and people are wrong for considering it to be 'microcheating'.

How have I got this so wrong?

I just don't understand. What is the point in going out with someone if you are constantly lusting after other people? What is the point? I don't need someone to mow my lawns, provide for me financially, help cook the dinner. I can either do those things myself or pay someone to do it.

It just feels like the model is you fancy someone and pursue them until you get them and then you spend the relationship being sexually attracted to other people.

Ir that you go out with someone 'un your keague' and then use them to fantasise about other people you find more desirable.

I thought itight he something that happened occasionally but to read it happens several times a day for most people has just destroyed me. It's all I can think about.

None of the other stuff he does or we have feels like it matters anymore and the only thing that does is that I'm not enough because, according to the internet, he's going to be constantly being briefly sexually aroused by everyone from the woman who serves him coffee to colleagues to actors in films he is watching and just supposed to be ok with that because it'll make our sex life better for him.

I don't even want to have sex with him anymore because of the fear of it.

It's making me ill.

No. I don't think there's anything he could say. It isn't going to change the reality or how I feel about it. Or how it makes feel about myself.

I do accept that this means I won't be able.to be in a relationship with anyone but that thought just brings me peace more than anything.

He's very good when we go out anyway. He does stick by me if I need him to and I'm not really bothered about him going off and talking to people. If I'm feeling overwhelmed, I'm quite happy to sit on my own without the pressure of making conversation.

I'm sorry you're still struggling, OP. You sound utterly miserable. Do you have any experience of therapy? I'm also autistic and there have been many times in my life that therapy has been necessary to help me come to terms with various issues. Fixating on a problem is very common for people like us and we can't always see the wood for the trees.

Your constant self-comparison to other women and feelings of inadequacy are the real issue, not the fact that other people function differently to you in terms of sexual attraction.

But he shouldn't be finding others sexually attractive? It's gaslighting to say it's OPs issue to be insecure. How about men stop making women feel insecure?
You have the ick now OP, you will never feel like a confident sexual woman with this man.
This is what men don't get.. you want more sex with your wife/partner.. make her feel like the only one that exists.

@QueefQueen80s

It's not gaslighting at all. It's commonplace to find more than one person at a time sexually attractive, for both men and women. There's no "should" or "shouldn't" about it.

Exactly.
Just because you just bought a rose, doesn’t mean you won’t find someone’s daffodils beautiful.
Or you could buy the most gorgeous pair of shoes in the world but still admire others. Doesn’t mean you like your shoes any less.

The issue here is OP and the insecurity and jealousy she feels. The BF hasn’t done anything wrong. In the kindest way possible, the OP needs to get some therapy around this issue. I totally understand the autism will heighten the feelings and that OP also has a different outlook on relationships/finding others attractive etc than most other people, however, the issue is OP’s behaviour. It also sounded really controlling when you said about how he said he’d come over once he’s washed up, but you were wonder where he was after a couple of hours. You can’t do this to yourself, OP. You deserve this man and you are attractive to him, otherwise he wouldn’t be with you. Just because you thought those women at the band were attractive, doesn’t necessarily mean he did.
I really think your ex did a number on you and your self esteem, my heart hurts for you. I really hope you’re able to see someone to change your perspective and realise that your self worth (or anybody’s) is not based on appearance. Your BF loves you for being YOU. Nobody else can be you. And considering how he’s being so patient and understanding of you, is testament to how much he thinks of you.

There are a few YouTube videos of men who are in relationships with average/pretty women who are ‘secretly’ seduced by ‘stripper looking’, attractive women (that’s how they describe it on their channel). They’re told by these women that there’ll be no strings attached etc etc….you know what? Nearly every single man declines because he wants to stay loyal and faithful to his partner. I think I’ve watched 20+ episodes and only one man took the opportunity. Ironically, his partner was probably the most attractive woman on the entire series. So attractive doesn’t equate to much when you have a loyal and loving man, like yours sounds to be.

Big hug OP. I really am angry at your ex for contributing to this and making your self esteem so low. Nobody deserves that.

All therapy is going to do is manipulate me into thinking I'm wrong amd everyone else is right and into accepting a way of thinking and being that doesn't sit right with me when I am quite happy with how I feel about it.

I started the thread because I wondered if anything anyone else would say would make me think about it differently and perhaps that might change my mind. But the more I've read and reflect on it, the more comfortable I am with my way of thinking and the less willing I am to try and change what feels right for me because its 'what everyone else does'.

I am quite happy to accept being on my own.

@CastIronFire
Therapy won't manipulate you into thinking anything. Being only attracted to one person at a time is not wrong, and neither is being attracted to several people at a time. What therapy can do is help you be comfortable with the fact that both types of people exist in the world and cease the constant negative comparisons to other women. If being alone is something you are wholeheartedly content with I suppose it might be a waste of money and effort to get therapy, but if there is a chance that you will feel loneliness and longing for a partner due to your choice to remain single then it may be something to consider. Besides, feeling "less than" is something worth tackling for yourself alone, whether you're in a relationship or not.

If you choose not to grow beyond this actually immature and childish and self-centred way of thinking, because it's too threatening to your fragile sense of self, then you should indeed stay alone and not hurt others by demanding they deny their own humanity to cater to you.

I hope though that you can grow beyond this. The world is less scary when you're equipped with self esteem, compassion for others and tolerance.

I know this sounds very non indulgent of me but the rigidity in your thinking I suspect harms you in more than romantic relationships.

Change.

I have just read your thread and it has made me a bit sad for you. You sound like you have a lovely boyfriend at present and it is not clear what he can do to reassure you. Are you saying that because you are not the most attractive person in the world, that every time you go anywhere where there is someone more attractive, he will be looking and thinking how attractive they are and so there is no point in your relationship? That means that the only person in the world who would not have to contend with that would be whoever the most beautiful woman is!
I am not beautiful at all and am very tall and over weight but my partner loves me for my personality. I don't mind if he appreciates the beauty of others. I notice when a man is attractive but it had no bearing on my love for my husband. I am not sure why you have muddled the two things up.
Hope you manage to get this sorted rather than be single forever.

Well then that’s fine. Maybe let your boyfriend go before dragging him down and causing potential damage to him and ruining his self esteem and possibly affecting his future relationships then.

This is a very childish outlook tbh. Plus you asked for advice. I can’t fathom why you’d choose being lonely over having a lovely BF just because you’re not the most attractive person on the planet, but it’s your life. I know you f I was in your position I’d be choosing therapy over loneliness but you do you. Good luck.

You’re blatantly not ‘quite happy’ with the way you feel about this matter nor are you happy to accept being on your own, that much is perfectly obvious given the two long (and frankly incredibly frustrating) threads regarding this same matter and the fact you cannot bring yourself to end your relationship, instead choosing to emotionally withdraw from your poor partner, who has done nothing, by general standards, wrong. I understand that you’re upset but he isn’t doing anything wrong by not thinking the exact same way as you, and it’s not fair to punish him for reasons that are only really clear to you.
This is a toy problem, it’s not right to inflict that on him. You say therapy would be a waste of time but I very strongly disagree.

@CastIronFire Having read both of your threads, I think it’s clear that you can’t understand what ‘fantasy’ is / means.. that it’s not a constant presence, and it CAN be a healthy form of escapism.

life is very short, make choices that will make you happy, perhaps take a break from your partner, spend time apart to reassess and see how you feel.
If you still feel uncomfortable, miserable perhaps it’s time to end it.

Well 'fantasy' isn't really a word I've ever used but when I've heard people use it, it seems to mean the absolute ideal and most desired.

That appears to be how it's used in fantasy football or when they describe their fantasy job or fantasy holiday. Things people could never have or achieve with their own personal skill set or finances etc or could possibly achieve with their personal skill set if they work really hard or are really fortunate in their circumstances and improve their position. That's how people describe their dream or fantasy.

Most people I've met have had a fantasy about what they'd do if they won the lottery that would improve their lives beyond measure and in a way they could never hope to do without that.

No one ever fantasises about being mediocre do they? It's always an upgrade. It's always better than what they have

No one ever fantasises about being poor, or in ill health.

Even when people 'fantasise' about a situation that might be considered objectively 'worse' (eg a lower paid, less stressful job or leaving a marriage) they believe that's because it would improve their situation overall and so feels relatively better.

And why be with someone if you need to 'escape' from your reality of being with them?

OP, when I was pregnant with my second child, I was genuinely scared I would have to reallocate some of the love from my first child, because I couldn’t possibly have enough love for both. But that’s not how it works with emotions, you can give 100% and still find another 100% to give.

In this case I imagine your boyfriend is giving 100% to you and another 2% to his crushes. It’s not Mathematical but it’s just how it works

Have you ever felt an intense connection at the start of a relationship, that settles down into a comfortable happiness? The “after” is the best bit but fantasising brings back a little of that memory

I wouldn't be lonely. I'd be at peace.

I wouldn't be filled with disgust and self loathing. I wouldn't feel inadequate.

I don't want to be settled for because someone else recognises their own limitations (eg looks, status, opportunity) doesn't enable them to achieve their own personal fantasy.

I know a man who chooses to be single because he doesn't feel that any of the women he has dated have quite lived up to his fantasy of a girlfriend. He recognises his own limitations in that respect and knows his reality is always going to be far less than his fantasy. A lot of people have criticised him because they perceive him as unrealistic because they also recognise his limitations in what he wants. In reality, it means he isn't going to 'settle' for less than he wants and no one is going to be settled for because of him.

I know other people don't agree with me. But that's how I feel.

No. I've never felt that. I've never been in a relationship for long enough for it to settle down into anything.

Why the need to fantasise about someone else though? Why not think about the person you are with and love? If you are not happy with the way things are, why stay?

I don't want to be in a relationship if that means it has room for other people in it.

To use the other example of having children, you are supposed to love your children and you are supposed to love them equally. It's a necessary requirement for them to thrive. It's in no way comparable.

I read a thread on here yesterday (I think) when a woman was describing that she had a crush on someone else and it was affecting how she felt about her boyfriend. She felt less invested in him because she was thinking (fantasising) about this other man.

That is how a crush would be to me.

I can understand how someone would weigh up the pros and cons of staying with the person they are with and decide that, overall, they are better of staying with their partner but that feels horribly selfish.

@CastIronFire ‘escapism’ in this context isn’t meaning running away from the person you’re with, and actually has nothing to do with ’ real life or how you feel about your partner or how your partner feels about you.

It’s nothing to do with ‘attraction’ in the everyday sense - remember that these ‘ celebrities’ on a day to day basis look nothing like they do in films or tv- it’s all make believe , which is exactly what the ‘fantasy’ is - make believe.

So if you can recognise the attraction as somewhat fictional- then you should be able to recognise that there is no comparison to be made, as you are comparing yourself to a composite image, produced by the media etc.

YOU are real, it’s you who your partner is attracted to in real life.

Maze76

Thar makes sense but I still don't understand why it's necessary.

I love and I'm happy with the children I have so I don't fantasise about raising other children My children are the perfect children for me and I never feel it necessary to recreate their early life by imaging it with other people's children. I remember their early lives with fondness.

I love my car. I get a sense of joy every time I get in and drive it. It's the perfect car for me. Since owning it, I have never looked at another car and wondered what it would be like to drive it.

I love my house. Its a 2 bed Victorian terrace. I love the lay out, the decor. Its exactly the home I would choose to live in. I can appreciate other nice houses but I have never once imagined or 'fantasised' about living in a different house because I've never felt the need to. It is perfect for me.

I don't understand why it's deemed 'healthy' and 'normal' to fantasise about an entirely different person who would be considered by others to be superior to the one you are with.

It's horrible.

Sometimes people mean something more akin to daydream, even if they use the words daydream and fantasy interchangeably. I understand that as a black and white thinker that's confusing though.

I might say I fantasise about living in Australia but I don't actually want to move there, I just like the fleeting idea of it every so often. Doesn't mean I want to up and leave where I do live.

Someone might say they fantasise about having twins but might not choose to proactively in real life if they could wave a magic wand, as there may be reasons it wouldn't be convenient. They can still fantasies about it without wanting it in reality. Doesn't mean they love or want their only child / non twin children any less.

Not sure if that helps but something to think about.

Going with your car example: you're totally happy with your car, but maybe you might happen to see a Ferrari, or a rare classic car, and think "I can appreciate that this car looks aesthetically pleasing; I don't want it and I'm totally happy with my car, but just glancing at it can be nice." That's all that is involved in liking the look of a celebrity, for a lot of people.

I totally respect your right to choose not to be in any relationship if you don't want to, but it does sound like your concerns about crushes are mixing in with difficulties with your self-image. Most people out there look fairly "normal" and that's how you described your partner too. You may well be in the "normal" range as well (and your partner sees you as better-looking than that!) I think most people don't feel disgusted with themselves - I think that is a psychological condition, which might be helped by therapy. Would it be nice to feel better about this aspect of yourself (whether you're single or not), if there was a way to achieve this via a change in mindset?

Thank you. I'm going to go and think about some of these alternative perspectives.

The comment about daydreaming reminded me.

I know that, before we were together, my boyfriend had a crush on me for a couple of years. He has told me he used to daydream about us being together. He said it wasn't ever sexual. He said he daydreamed about us laughing together, holding hands, just doing normal stuff. He has played me a couple of songs he used to listen to when he was driving home from work that made him think of me.

It just feels like, now we're together, it means nothing if having crushes on people is harmless and watching stuff because you have a crush on someone is normal. If feeling sexually aroused by several people a day is commonplace (as I have read). What is the point if it's normal for him to now be daydreaming about someone else!