Came across a post I wrote before our baby was born

[Raininginautumn]

I’m not necessarily looking for advice, I just need somewhere safe to share this.

Two years ago,I was eight months pregnant and excited for my new arrival. I came across a post I wrote in a little Facebook group I was part of, and obviously were all quite naive before we have our children.

I was going to return to work and would share the load with my partner, he was going to drop the baby off so I could get into work early and I would do the pick ups, as I finished a bit earlier. I really thought things would be equal.

Nearly two years down the line and that hasn’t happened. Somehow I’ve become almost the sole carer for our ds. I get up when ds wakes, I take him to nursery, if he wakes in the night (which to be fair isn’t a lot but I did have a good twelve months of utterly hellish sleep, or lack of it) it’s me who goes to him, I bath him and put him to bed.

It isn’t all bad. If you ask him to do something directly, he generally will, but I don’t like asking. It makes me feel like I’m not coping, or something, it’s just so much nicer when someone does something for you without prompting or asking. And sometimes you get the promise that he will but just doesn’t.

I am expecting another baby, all going well. Part of me thinks DH is going to HAVE to do more, if only because I can’t physically be in more than one place at a time, but then I thought he’d have to do more when I went back to work, and that didn’t happen.

I do feel a bit taken for granted, and if I’m honest I often feel a bit lonely too.

This isn't solving the problem of your DH being lazy and selfish, but more of a workaround. Buy in all the help you can - e.g. get one of those meal services that delivers the ingredients for a week of meals. Eat together at table every evening so you connect and chat with each other (I think this is really important and will help to make you feel more like a family.) Get a cleaner to come in a couple of times a week so the house is okay and laundry is done. Get extra childcare so you have some downtime and maybe a date night here and there.

I realise this all costs money but if you have money then it seems like a good way to use it at the moment. If not, you could still do some things, like meal planning for the week and eating together. Ask a friend or family member to babysit regularly in exchange for something.

This cartoon has already been posted on this thread but I'm putting it up again for your dh, OP. When you're both raedy for your next conversation, use it as an introduction. Put it in front of him and say you'd like to have a chat about it. Once he's read it, see what he says and take it from there. It's a very simple cartoon so there's no doubt he'll understand it.

english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/

@Raininginautumn

You have a common problem with many routes out, which are being suggested to you.

If you see 'take responsibility for your self, your life and your feelings' as an insult, that's a good explanation of why you still have the problem. The fault is his, the responsibility for your happiness is yours. Best of luck getting your head around it.

Your situation is widespread and in my experience the following things can happen:

-you accept he's not going to change, find joy in your relationship with the kids and don't expect him to do anything as a father. You are both happy with this set-up.
-you go on as you are and end up resenting him so much you leave him.
-he resents you so much focusing solely on the kids that he finds someone else and leaves.

What's not going to happen is that he'll step up as a parent. He's not truly interested in his DC to do that. No amount of talking, to-do lists or fights are going to change that.

I wonder which path you will choose OP?

OP, you are getting some good advice he re lie ins etc.

I appreciate it is hard.

Especially with the type of man that will just not do what he says he will do, isn't dependable.

Women like my friends chose not to separate and just got on with it.

That solution is not for everyone, and certainly wouldn't have been for me, but they have lived their lives as well as possible.

You do have agency here, even if you don't think you do.

I would strongly suggest some sole counselling to give you the emotional support you lack.

Long term planning via counselling could help you map out your future witj or without him.

It will definitely help you take back some control, which you clearly lack now.

Also be ready to let him fail. Repeatedly.

Good post and is what my friends have ultimately done.

If you have a halfway decent partner who cares about you at all. then the tactics people are suggesting might work.

If your partner thinks he knows better than you, thinks what he's doing is just fine, thinks you are being unreasonable and generally has no respect for you, then none of these things work. He might put on a nice face (if he can still be bothered) and say the right things. Then he'll get back to arriving too late, forgetting stuff, not thinking about what he could do, rolling his eyes, implying that in fact, YOU are the lazy one as you keep on nagging at him to do stuff, or foccusing on a single word you used during the argument and turning it round so that now, the argument is about that word, or about your attitude.

I now have a caring, human partner and it never fails to amaze me every time I voice a complaint, and he instantly apologises and takes my complaint into account. Now I can understand why people are giving this kind of advice.

I’m sorry you’re feeling like this. I was in exactly the same boat until I went back to work after my second lot of maternity leave and realised that I needed to ask for help.
Like yours, my husband didn’t mean to be useless, he just doesn’t think (and can be lazy, and I think I probably took on the load of everything because I was at home and felt that it should be down to me to sort everything out while he worked).
So I started asking him to do things and telling him that I couldn’t do it all. He’s so much better now, I still get annoyed that things aren’t done sometimes. I think I’m a bit of a control freak though and need to stop having such high expectations of myself and others. Mainly because I put too much on myself, but also because it makes me look for things to pick holes in when someone has helped! I hope things improve for you, don’t feel like a failure for asking for help. It’s not that bad when you try, and you’re not a failure in anyone else’s eyes but your own so give yourself a break from the pressure of it all and give your husband some jobs to do.

I sympathise with you OP and DH was like that in the early days. Didn't help that he worked away in the week.

Now he mainly works from home and so do I, we are very clear about dividing jobs up. We alternate bath and bed time day by day. Same for night time wakenings. The person who baths the child expects the other to clean the kitchen from dinner time and vice versa. I do the laundry, he does bins, all DIY (a lot needs doing). I do cleaning floors, he does bills and cleans cars and outside. Etc. None of this happened by osmosis. We had to sit down and agree it. We even agree that on Saturday mornings he brings me a cup of tea in bed and I do the same for him on Sunday mornings. I generally cook because I love cooking and ensure we actually eat fruit and vegetables but equally he will step up and do it when I can't be arsed and he generally arranges breakfasts.

He helps with maths, spellings, art, design and physics based homework, I help with humanities, English, other sciences and food based homework.

I am the medic of the house, he is the fixer of the things of the house.

All agreed in advance and if anyone is unhappy with roles, it is discussed.

DH (rightly) says that I only need to ask, and this is true

Who asks you to look after your baby? Who taught you that a baby needs regular feeding, washing, changing?

Or - who taught you that clothes need washing? Food needs putting on the table? Bathroom and kitchen surfaces need to be clean to stop illness?

The answer would be no one, right? You get on and do it, because you're an adult human being.

Honestly I would be reading the riot act to him. You have a baby and another on the way. You don't need another adult child in the house that requires instruction at every turn. Buy him a baby book and tell him to read it that you won't be his mummy anymore.

You won't be able to take Ds to nursery if the baby is feeding or sleeping on you. Your DH will have to step up and when I had my second my husband did a fuck tonne, quite rightly, with our first.

Actually he has always been very good I don't have to ask him to do anything he just does it because he is their dad.
I'm sorry your husband is being so shit. He really needs to step up

Like a pp I too would be reading the riot act. He needs to get his arse into gear and if I were you I'd start making him do the bulk of stuff with your first child because it's likely he will need to look after him a lot more so needs to get used to it now.

You say that he says you only need to ask. But you've ALSO said that when you talk about, for example, him doing nursery, he just doesn't do it. So actually, you asking has zero impact.

You're not gong to make major life changing decisions off the back of one MN thread but I would really encourage you to think about this carefully and really consider if this is what you want your life to look like? And most likely, you'll be a single mum anyway by the time the DC are teenagers.

Men like this fall into two camps - one who is genuinely clueless but if you tell him what duties he's responsible for and give a bit of guidance, they get on with it and rarely need another nudge. I was lucky that I had one of these and he did pull his weight.

The other is someone who will say all the yes words but develops strategic incompetence so that he fucks it up and it all reverts back to you anyway. The first type might try this occasionally but a aimed at them soon sorts them out
From the sounds of it, you've got the latter.

Therefore two choices: stay and surround yourself with people who WILL help you, or leave.

It sounds like you aren't ready to leave so the former option is all you have. If money permits (and by this I mean BOTH of you contribute proportionally %wise to these bills), get a cleaner/au pair/ nanny/ laundry service. Enlist help from family to give you a nights sleep one night a week. Plan family days out and leave the fucker at home. He's not doing the drudge work of the family life so why does he get the fruits of it?

Do not give up work. Do not go part time.

Treat him like a lodger that you occasionally shag. You'll come to realise that as nice as you think he is, nobody nice would ever let their partner be on their knees with tiredness, up to their eyes doing all the housework, and exhausted and be able to sit there and not lift a hand, and you will start to lose respect for him. And if you get to that point there will be fuck all adjustment being a single mum because you'll look back and realise that you always have been one.

Have you actually made a list of all the things you do and that he does and demonstrated to him that you do more and discussed how it could be made fairer. Explained to him the mental load of having to ask/organise?it sounds like you want to avoid conflict to the point you are willing to let this continue/resentment to build.

Its not your fault per se but he clearly (can you blame him?) sees no issue in this set uo so onus is on you to say you are not happy otherwise it won't change. It will just come exploding out in a rage one day and load only gets bigger when school starts.

Dh my life has changed so much since have dc1. I work FT and do everything in relation to caring for dc1. Quite frankly raising a child alone is not what I signed up for but that is what has been happening

I no longer want to do 95pc of the caring for our child as it’s wearing me down and I’m starting to resent you. Also add in the housework and I just think it’s not fair to continue as we are.

I really would like you to think about how much I do versus you and what more you are going to do going forward to contribute to the house and our dc.

if you think what I do is so easy or that I am complaining for the sake of it then please step into my shoes for a few days and get a feel for what my days are like.

as we are a team I’d like you to think of a solution to improve the current situation as I do not want to continue like this.

love xxxxx

send him a message, let him think about it then let him come up with a solution

you truly don’t have to accept this situation- you haven’t said if you are going back to work FT after baby number 2 but that will end up breaking you if he doesn’t step up in some way!

I've only read about half the thread but you have mentioned there's no point in saying anything because he will come up with a 'valid reason' not to change his ways.

What is this valid reason exactly? Also try turning 'valid reason' into an excuse. Because that's exactly what he's doing - giving you a load of bullshit excuses about why he can't.

It's not your fault per se, but you have enabled him to behave this way. This should have been addressed a long time ago with a kick up the arse to sort himself out.

Ultimately if he's not willing to do that then you're stuck in the status quo and if you're not going to leave him then you'll just have to put up with it!

Sorry to be blunt but it's that simple really.

he clearly (can you blame him?) sees no issue in this set uo
Not sure if you mean "can you blame him?" as in "Of course he'd rather be lazy" or as in "How could he possibly realise it's unfair"?
I think you can blame someone for not having a good look at a situation and seeing that it's unfair - that they are letting their partner do all the parenting while they don't even know the basics. I realise it has a lot to do with expected social roles, etc. etc. but a reasonably intelligent human should be able to look at and judge a situation on their own. Plus, OP has told him quite a few times.

@Raininginautumn
I have only read your posts, not the full thread, but since he tells you that you only need to ask, have you tried this:

"I am asking you to take full ownership for caring for our child, from today onwards, every weekday morning, from the time he wakes up until the time you drop him off at nursery, with all of his belongings, including taking care of him as soon as he wakes up, without my needing to be involved in any way, and without my needing to ask you again"

If he says yes verbally and then does not do it, you could ask him once more in the same words in writing and ask him to sign his agreement to that.

It might not make a difference, but maybe if he signs something he will take it seriously.

And if he says no, then it would at least open the door to a conversation in which he has to own what he is saying "no" to.

His saying "yes, just ask me" and then not doing it, or grumbling, or requiring you to ask every time, are really just passive aggressive ways of saying "no" without having to say "no."

@YankeeDad Out of interest, are you an actual dad, i.e. a man, and if so, would you sign a piece of paper like that? My question is not meant sarcastically, but more from the point of view of "do people really agree to do that kind of thing?" - a request of that kind to my ex would have led to complaints about my attitude, sulking, a terrible atmosphere in the home etc.

Hi op - how’s about this plan.
Sit DH down. Tell him things aren’t equal, you’re doing too much and him not enough. Tell him in order for you not to feel resentment and it make a fuck of your marriage, that you need a few things to change. Start with a few easy wins and make him do them. Maybe that he gets up at 5am as you’re doing nights. After a while add nights to that. Make a list of everything that goes into that nursery bag and tell him he is to check it off each morning and get it ready etc etc. This may require a bit of ‘training’ and effort from you in order to get a little equality but it’s worth it.

Oh, I was you btw. I’m a bit of a perfectionist and found it hard to watch him ‘do it all wrong’. We survived it though, just about. It’s not easy with small kids but it doesn’t go on for ever. The key is not to allow that resentment store up. I do think a lot of men think women are more equipped or have better instincts for parenthood and just know what to do. I think we often just get left to it and have to step up, so end up looking like we cope better.

Don’t let him leave it all to you cos that’s easier for him than it would be working it out for himself.

Good luck!

The frustration in your posts is palpable OP and I think people have given lots of good advice but it feels like you're not at the point to put it into action.

When your DH is telling you to "just ask", he's expecting you to add managing him to your workload of being aware of what needs doing and actually doing 90% of the work.

But even then, when you do agree that he'll do something, he doesn't actually do it. So not only is he not pulling his weight, he's also repeatedly letting you down to the point you feel helpless. That conversation of "You said you'd do x and you didn't, where do we go now?" is soul destroying after the second time.

I have to deal with this a lot with trainees at work and that's frustrating enough and I'm aware it's part of the job! When you're supposed to be equal partners it feels like an implicit lack of love and respect.

So I'm not going to give you solutions but I will say you are totally justified to feel utterly pissed off and worn down and generally uncared for right now. This situation is not your fault - in any fair relationship your DH would see what needs doing and actually do what he says he would. However that does not mean that there aren't things you can choose to do which can improve the situation when you are ready.

Yes and yes - although I would only sign up to what I could actually do. My circumstances when children were small were that frequent, irregular work travel and early meetings would have made that sort of regular commitment impossible for me, and we had a very traditional split with me earning the singl income and my wife a SAHM. So our specifics would have been very different. But, a discussion explicitly asking me to take full ownership of certain specific childcare and household responsibilities would have forced me to think seriously about what I could commit to, and also to be much more aware of what I was in effect demanding of my spouse by saying I could not do it.

The more fundamental suggestion I wanted to make is this: if the husband is saying ‘I’ll help if you ask’, one way to respond that might work is to tell him that the ‘help’ that is actually wanted must include taking ownership in the long term, not just ‘helping’ as a one-off from time to time.

I know that a man who has children should actually not have to be ‘asked’ to ‘help’, but I am just being pragmatic in thinking about what might actually work. Speaking in generalities, men like to feel needed and appreciated by the women they love. Starting a conversation with ‘I really need your help with this’ , if it gets the result of the man taking ownership, and then expressing appreciation in some way after does it, can be effective in getting different behaviour. And if the guy contributes more and feels good about it and also closer to his partner, that is probably a good thing for everyone in the family. Over time the guy might come to enjoy doing it as well, since his child will respond to his increased presence, and that could cement the behaviour.

men like to feel needed and appreciated
Women, too, of course; and that will be one problem OP is struggling with.
I'm just thinking that if I'd asked my ex to sign an agreement, he'd have seen that as me not appreciating the things he did do - me criticising him, saying he was untrustworthy- and he'd have been furious.