Page 27 | DH asked me to consider an open marriage

Pumpkinspicedmum · 2022-11-21T23:06:43+00:00

Me and DH have been together since we were 16 and are now 30 with a dd (4) and a ds (16mo) Since my first pregnancy, I have been struggling with a very low libido and must admit to neglecting DH in that area. The other night DH asked if we could talk and said he wasn't happy in such a low sex marriage (we've dtd 5 times since the birth of our daughter 4 years ago) and really needs sex. He said he has been getting increasingly frustrated and snappy and feels lost in our marriage. He said that he does love me but feels that our relationship is in trouble. I was honest and told him that it's not him but that I just have zero libido. He suggested counselling but I really don't like the idea of discussing our sex life with a stranger. If I'm honest, I got a bit defensive and went to bed in a huff which I know was wrong. Fast forward to this evening and DH has asked me if I would consider an open marriage so that he can get his needs met, taking the pressure off of me. He said he loves me and wants our family to stay together but that a compromise needs to be made and its up to me whether we go for sex therapy or I carry on as I am and we have an open marriage. To be honest, I dont really want to do either and feel a bit annoyed at DH for ruining the status quo which deep down I know is unreasonable and he isn't wrong for wanting sex with his own wife. Any words of wisdom whilst I try to navigate this situation would be greatly appreciated x

emptythelitterbox · 24/11/2022 07:52

MavisChunch29 · 23/11/2022 22:59

To think that porn and masterbation could even come close to replacing the closeness and intimacy if being with your partner is incredibly naieve.

Incredibly naive to think that most men aren't wanking over porn regularly and at all bother about regular sex. Most of them can't get it even if they wanted it. Most men are deeply unnattractive to women anyway.

I've come to the realization that far too many men don't really like us except for services we provide to them. If their woman becomes defective, they have no problems walking out on their families just to get their dick wet or leaving when she has a serious illness.

Runover · 24/11/2022 08:05

“I don't want to have sex with other people... I want to have sex with my wife. The woman I love, the mother of my children. The woman with whom I fully intend to spend the rest of my life. The very notion of me having sex with someone else is... It's outside of my contemplation. Maybe it's because I was cheated on a long time ago.
It's the rejection that hurts the most. I feel so worthless and unwanted..”

Plenty of men want a loving, close, intimate sexual relationship with their wife. They want to rekindle their sexual relationship and don’t want to go outside/or end their marriage.

www.reddit.com/r/DeadBedrooms/comments/z2svks/i_dont_want_to_have_sex_with_other_people_i_want/

I had cancer and my husband took fantastic care of me, and we obviously didn’t have sex for a very long time, probably 8 months or more. There are plenty of men who love their wives and family and don’t want to just “get their dick wet, or leave if she has a serious illness”.

Runover · 24/11/2022 08:15

A man in the comments:

“Agreed I over stated that part. But during a good conversation I asked my wife how she showed me I wasn't just her friend anymore. She really couldn't answer me. This was one of the ways I was able to get her to understand this had less to do with physical release or pleasure, and more to do with needing a real connection with her.”

gannett · 24/11/2022 08:16

MaybeIWillFuckOffThen · 24/11/2022 06:58

My mind actually boggles that people are managing to interpret me saying the OP is being treated like a broken sex puppet as me saying that female sexuality doesn't exist, that sex isn't about mutual pleasure and connection etc. The whole point is that female sexuality IS real (that's why it's called a LOSS of libido, it is a loss, almost a bloody bereavement in my case, I missed my sex drive so much), and that sex SHOULD be a result of mutual desire resulting in mutual pleasure, not one party dutifully performing to service the other parties "needs". So when instead people are describing it as something the OP owes her DH because they are married, advising her to fake it til she makes it or go and get herself medicated to simulate a functional libido, or go to therapy so she can spend time trying to pin her loss of libido on some psychological shortcoming when it is more than likely just the very very common physiological reaction to pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding, small kids and no sleep - she is being treated like defective product rather than a human being whose actual desire and pleasure is important.

In an ideal world, no-one would be having sex without both parties enthusiastically and spontaneously wanting it. In reality, in a marriage/LTR, especially one with kids, there will have to be some compromise on quality for the sake of frequency. But I don't see why this can't be worked on together as a shared issue - our libidos are currently mismatched, what shall we do about it - rather than it being an accusatory " YOUR libido has vanished, this is not acceptable, how do we fix you?"

Working on it together as a shared issue is the point of the sex therapy that was the OP's husband's first suggestion. I think most posters have advised that she take him up on that rather than the open relationship, and she has done so.

FWIW I don't agree with the "lie back and think of England" approach, it's a bit grim and no one should go through sex they don't enjoy just to get it over with. However it's a sliding scale between that and being actively rampant and up for it right now. So many times I haven't thought I've been in the mood but went along with it and five minutes later I was absolutely in the mood.

Rhondaa · 24/11/2022 08:25

'I've come to the realization that far too many men don't really like us except for services we provide to them. If their woman becomes defective, they have no problems walking out on their families just to get their dick wet or leaving when she has a serious illness'

So sad to read some of these comments. Some people have clearly had very dysfunctional relationships with unfaithful partners and are projecting massively. Some men do very much 'like their partners' and they don't want to be rejected for years and years. There is nothing wrong with that! Intimacy is an i important part of a strong, healthy, loving relationship.

MaybeIWillFuckOffThen · 24/11/2022 08:54

gannett · 24/11/2022 08:16

Working on it together as a shared issue is the point of the sex therapy that was the OP's husband's first suggestion. I think most posters have advised that she take him up on that rather than the open relationship, and she has done so.

FWIW I don't agree with the "lie back and think of England" approach, it's a bit grim and no one should go through sex they don't enjoy just to get it over with. However it's a sliding scale between that and being actively rampant and up for it right now. So many times I haven't thought I've been in the mood but went along with it and five minutes later I was absolutely in the mood.

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Yes it was his first suggestion. According to the OP, the first time he has EVER raised it explicitly. And 24 hours later when he didn't get an immediately positive response, he goes to the 'open marriage' bombshell. Can we at least acknowledge that he could have handled this better as well? Or does it really ,all have to be the OP's fault?

And having a low to non-existent libido isn't about 'not being in the mood'. It's not just 'can't be bothered'. I feel like the people who just totally refuse to acknowledge that this situation is difficult for the OP as well and isn't just something she can switch on and off at will have just never been there.

MaybeIWillFuckOffThen · 24/11/2022 09:06

supercali77 · 24/11/2022 07:28

@MaybeIWillFuckOffThen if a man had psycholigical ED in a marriage, would it make him a sex puppet to suggest he goes to his doctor or goes to a therapist or tries other things? Its not a like for like comparison obviously because for most women it isn't about their organs not functioning.

Not sure if you're saying psychological or physiological there due to spelling. Obviously any psychological issues should of course be investigated and treated. Physiological ED (in the absence of psychological issues) is most often a symptom of physical illness (e.g. heart disease, obesity, blood pressure, substance misuse) that should be investigated.

Low Libido in women is a common result of pregnancy, birthing, breastfeeding, and the intense physical labour and sleep deprivation that is part of raising small children - it is a physiological hormonal response to stimuli, not an illness. It is an evolutionarily sound behaviour. It is not the same.

I believe in equality, but that is not the same as interchangeability in all cases. Unless a man has experienced pregnancy, childbirth and breastfeeding, the cause of low libido is not going to be caused by a normal hormonal response to these experiences. There may be variations between how women respond to these hormonal fluctuations, just as there are in women's response to hormonal flux in their menstrual cycles, but in aggregate it is normal (e.g.) for women to experience a dip in mood before their period, and it is normal for women to experience reduced libido in post-natally.

Both these responses can cause social problems that need to be addressed (you can't go around telling your work colleagues to fuck off when you're pre-menstrual, no matter how much you feel you might want to) but their existence does not suggest biological dysfunction that must be resolved. Quite the opposite. It is the system doing exactly what the system does.

Rhondaa · 24/11/2022 11:28

MaybeIWillFuckOffThen · 24/11/2022 09:06

Not sure if you're saying psychological or physiological there due to spelling. Obviously any psychological issues should of course be investigated and treated. Physiological ED (in the absence of psychological issues) is most often a symptom of physical illness (e.g. heart disease, obesity, blood pressure, substance misuse) that should be investigated.

Low Libido in women is a common result of pregnancy, birthing, breastfeeding, and the intense physical labour and sleep deprivation that is part of raising small children - it is a physiological hormonal response to stimuli, not an illness. It is an evolutionarily sound behaviour. It is not the same.

I believe in equality, but that is not the same as interchangeability in all cases. Unless a man has experienced pregnancy, childbirth and breastfeeding, the cause of low libido is not going to be caused by a normal hormonal response to these experiences. There may be variations between how women respond to these hormonal fluctuations, just as there are in women's response to hormonal flux in their menstrual cycles, but in aggregate it is normal (e.g.) for women to experience a dip in mood before their period, and it is normal for women to experience reduced libido in post-natally.

Both these responses can cause social problems that need to be addressed (you can't go around telling your work colleagues to fuck off when you're pre-menstrual, no matter how much you feel you might want to) but their existence does not suggest biological dysfunction that must be resolved. Quite the opposite. It is the system doing exactly what the system does.

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Rather a lengthy over analysis there.

Low libido, ED whatever. People should seek help to work through their problems. Ignoring them an rejecting their partners for years is not a solution.

supercali77 · 24/11/2022 11:34

@MaybeIWillFuckOffThen Sorry I meant psychological. Replying on phone. Age is also a factor in ED. You could argue thats not dysfunction (age) but the system doing what it does? Its nevertheless still a problem in a relationship if the other person wants intimacy. I do think mothers of young children need the time and space to recover, I guess its a case of...for her husband..how long is a good time to wait before raising it? 2 years? 3? Is it better to raise it now or let it get worse. Will it just resolve itself or become entrenched? I dont honestly think its wrong to raise it after 4 years and sex once a year it seems?

Flashingtealights · 24/11/2022 12:07

Keep seeing posts saying the Op and her DH obviously love each other very much. I don’t see it. She has sex with him once a year, she’s happy with that and appears irritated with him that he dared raise the subject that he’s not so she strops off . It looks like she doesn’t want him, she doesn’t want anyone else to have him, doesnt want to discus any ideas about counselling . When she ‘gives in’ she does it very begrudgingly . She just wants to carry on living like housemates . Lots of people slating him, 4 years he’s been living like this. So she’s finally agreed to counseling but it doesn’t seem to have happened because she wants to genuinely fix things more like she’s been forced into it. I think DH better get used to having once a year sex for the foreseeable or make other plans

terriblemomm · 24/11/2022 12:23

MaybeIWillFuckOffThen · 24/11/2022 06:58

My mind actually boggles that people are managing to interpret me saying the OP is being treated like a broken sex puppet as me saying that female sexuality doesn't exist, that sex isn't about mutual pleasure and connection etc. The whole point is that female sexuality IS real (that's why it's called a LOSS of libido, it is a loss, almost a bloody bereavement in my case, I missed my sex drive so much), and that sex SHOULD be a result of mutual desire resulting in mutual pleasure, not one party dutifully performing to service the other parties "needs". So when instead people are describing it as something the OP owes her DH because they are married, advising her to fake it til she makes it or go and get herself medicated to simulate a functional libido, or go to therapy so she can spend time trying to pin her loss of libido on some psychological shortcoming when it is more than likely just the very very common physiological reaction to pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding, small kids and no sleep - she is being treated like defective product rather than a human being whose actual desire and pleasure is important.

In an ideal world, no-one would be having sex without both parties enthusiastically and spontaneously wanting it. In reality, in a marriage/LTR, especially one with kids, there will have to be some compromise on quality for the sake of frequency. But I don't see why this can't be worked on together as a shared issue - our libidos are currently mismatched, what shall we do about it - rather than it being an accusatory " YOUR libido has vanished, this is not acceptable, how do we fix you?"

I think your interpretation of the situation is all wrong. Going to a councillor IS a way of saying “what shall we do about it?” but OP has rejected all reasonable attempts to do anything about it. Her husband has clearly vocalized that he isn’t happy with the situation but she has shot him down to the point that he feels he is either stuck in a marriage where he will never be happy again or he is forced to leave his childhood romance and children to figure something else out that will give him a chance at happiness. That is not accusatory. OP confessed to it.

She’s been ignoring it for four years and that is a very long time for a man to just ignore his desires. At some point she should have wondered to herself “is he going to be okay?” It’s not a crime for a man to want to have sex with his own wife.

terriblemomm · 24/11/2022 12:34

Rhondaa · 24/11/2022 08:25

'I've come to the realization that far too many men don't really like us except for services we provide to them. If their woman becomes defective, they have no problems walking out on their families just to get their dick wet or leaving when she has a serious illness'

So sad to read some of these comments. Some people have clearly had very dysfunctional relationships with unfaithful partners and are projecting massively. Some men do very much 'like their partners' and they don't want to be rejected for years and years. There is nothing wrong with that! Intimacy is an i important part of a strong, healthy, loving relationship.

Finally someone is sane. I feel like so many people on mumsnet not only have huge issues with men but sex also. They then get angry and lash out when the men say they aren’t happy in a sexless marriage and start accusing them of being horrible sex friends. If that was true OP’s husband would not have waited four years and wouldn’t have asked permission for an open marriage. He would have just moved on to cheating.

Some of these PPs expect the marriage to be so one sided. OP can have it all her way with sex once a year on christmas night I guess and OP’s husband just suffers in silence and is not allowed to voice his unhappiness.

LemonDrop22 · 24/11/2022 12:39

MaybeIWillFuckOffThen · 24/11/2022 09:06

Not sure if you're saying psychological or physiological there due to spelling. Obviously any psychological issues should of course be investigated and treated. Physiological ED (in the absence of psychological issues) is most often a symptom of physical illness (e.g. heart disease, obesity, blood pressure, substance misuse) that should be investigated.

Low Libido in women is a common result of pregnancy, birthing, breastfeeding, and the intense physical labour and sleep deprivation that is part of raising small children - it is a physiological hormonal response to stimuli, not an illness. It is an evolutionarily sound behaviour. It is not the same.

I believe in equality, but that is not the same as interchangeability in all cases. Unless a man has experienced pregnancy, childbirth and breastfeeding, the cause of low libido is not going to be caused by a normal hormonal response to these experiences. There may be variations between how women respond to these hormonal fluctuations, just as there are in women's response to hormonal flux in their menstrual cycles, but in aggregate it is normal (e.g.) for women to experience a dip in mood before their period, and it is normal for women to experience reduced libido in post-natally.

Both these responses can cause social problems that need to be addressed (you can't go around telling your work colleagues to fuck off when you're pre-menstrual, no matter how much you feel you might want to) but their existence does not suggest biological dysfunction that must be resolved. Quite the opposite. It is the system doing exactly what the system does.

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Agree 100%.

LemonDrop22 · 24/11/2022 12:40

MavisChunch29 · 23/11/2022 23:18

They have been together 15 years. No matter what their age it would be natural for the passion to cool off a bit after being together that length of time.

Sex infrequently sounds entirely normal with small children. The problem is women brought up on More magazine and Cosmopolitan position of the fortnight and men brought up with porn.

Regular sex is not a necessary norm in a relationship or otherwise, we've been sold a pup by the patriarchy since the Pill arrived. Before that couples did not have regular sex unless they wanted a baby every year.

Have a nice cuddle, there are plenty of ways to have intimate relations without intercourse (how unimaginative and heteronormative most posters are here) And if you need an orgasm, there are plenty of ways to do that without PIV sex.

👏

MaybeIWillFuckOffThen · 24/11/2022 12:43

terriblemomm · 24/11/2022 12:23

I think your interpretation of the situation is all wrong. Going to a councillor IS a way of saying “what shall we do about it?” but OP has rejected all reasonable attempts to do anything about it. Her husband has clearly vocalized that he isn’t happy with the situation but she has shot him down to the point that he feels he is either stuck in a marriage where he will never be happy again or he is forced to leave his childhood romance and children to figure something else out that will give him a chance at happiness. That is not accusatory. OP confessed to it.

She’s been ignoring it for four years and that is a very long time for a man to just ignore his desires. At some point she should have wondered to herself “is he going to be okay?” It’s not a crime for a man to want to have sex with his own wife.

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"all reasonable attempts"? One attempt. One. In 4 years. followed almost immediately by the suggestion of an open marriage.

As I say it's hardly a sustained campaign to save their sex life is it?

I really don't think he's a bad guy, but neither is he the martyred saint you'd all have him be.

LemonDrop22 · 24/11/2022 12:47

If a woman sees herself as a fuck doll

Bizarre.

That was the opposite of what I was saying ..... That's why the statement satirically summarising his attitude towards sex and his proposal of an open relationship was from his point of view.

Rhondaa · 24/11/2022 12:47

'As I say it's hardly a sustained campaign to save their sex life is it?'

So you'd rather he'd been nagging her for 4 years?! Who tf wants a 'sustained campaign'.

He has obviously been patient and understanding but after 4 years (barring the annual get it over with shag) he'd have to be a saint to not want to actually do something about it.

MaybeIWillFuckOffThen · 24/11/2022 12:59

Rhondaa · 24/11/2022 12:47

'As I say it's hardly a sustained campaign to save their sex life is it?'

So you'd rather he'd been nagging her for 4 years?! Who tf wants a 'sustained campaign'.

He has obviously been patient and understanding but after 4 years (barring the annual get it over with shag) he'd have to be a saint to not want to actually do something about it.

I've already posted saying how he could have raised it much earlier in a constructive way. Can't be arsed to type it all again. Instead he let it fester. And left it so long that when he finally did broach it, his first port of call was 'let's get counselling' instead of 'what's going on here, let's talk about it' - and then when that conversation didn't go his way, almost immediately 'let me fuck someone else'.

And no I don't think it was her obligation to probe him about it, when he hadn't brought it up, he was the one with a developing unhappiness so he was the one who should have brought it up - women are not there to provide emotional literacy translation services for the men in their lives.

And frankly who wouldn't love a 'sustained campaign' from their partner to connect with them, understand them, foster intimacy with them? Not just a daily whinge of 'why won't you have sex with meeeee?' but a genuine proactive attempt to maintain/reignite/heal their intimacy?

MavisChunch29 · 24/11/2022 13:05

Thank you @LemonDrop22. It's like screaming into a void, frankly.

terriblemomm · 24/11/2022 13:11

MaybeIWillFuckOffThen · 24/11/2022 12:43

"all reasonable attempts"? One attempt. One. In 4 years. followed almost immediately by the suggestion of an open marriage.

As I say it's hardly a sustained campaign to save their sex life is it?

I really don't think he's a bad guy, but neither is he the martyred saint you'd all have him be.

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lol I’m not saying he’s a saint but all of the comments so far have been heavily in OP’s favour and I have a very very hard time believing that he’s said nothing over the course of four years. Honestly they have both contributed to the failings of their marriage. It sounds like they’ve both had their heads in the sand about it for awhile.

You’re the same one saying “in ancient times people had fifteen kids and just gave up on sex. Just cuddle up on the couch and eat popcorn and pretend it is not a problem.” 😂

You’re clearly very biased so yeah a lot of us are defending the man because of your unbalanced opinions.

At the end of the day the man is entitled to his feelings. I guess it is up to OP if she decides to just let nature sort it out. But she will also have to decide if she is willing to live with the fact that her husband may grow to resent her and leave because of that.

There is some obvious projection happening here and it is concerning that there are people who obviously have deep sexual issues in their marriages giving OP advice.

MaybeIWillFuckOffThen · 24/11/2022 13:17

terriblemomm · 24/11/2022 13:11

lol I’m not saying he’s a saint but all of the comments so far have been heavily in OP’s favour and I have a very very hard time believing that he’s said nothing over the course of four years. Honestly they have both contributed to the failings of their marriage. It sounds like they’ve both had their heads in the sand about it for awhile.

You’re the same one saying “in ancient times people had fifteen kids and just gave up on sex. Just cuddle up on the couch and eat popcorn and pretend it is not a problem.” 😂

You’re clearly very biased so yeah a lot of us are defending the man because of your unbalanced opinions.

At the end of the day the man is entitled to his feelings. I guess it is up to OP if she decides to just let nature sort it out. But she will also have to decide if she is willing to live with the fact that her husband may grow to resent her and leave because of that.

There is some obvious projection happening here and it is concerning that there are people who obviously have deep sexual issues in their marriages giving OP advice.

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You’re the same one saying “in ancient times people had fifteen kids and just gave up on sex. Just cuddle up on the couch and eat popcorn and pretend it is not a problem.” 😂

I'm bloody not!!! Why are people on the opposite side of this argument so bloody hard of reading? Where have I said that?

Honestly I need to get a life. I actually find this discussion interesting so I read all the posts properly, engage with specific arguments, come up with examples and rebuttals - then people just accuse me of saying things I abso-fucking-lutely have NOT said, don't even bother to quote what I said that they THINK means I am saying that, and just fart off some sentences off the tops of their heads. Which I suppose is fair enough for a pointless online forum but it's bloody frustrating. Sigh. I really do need to get a life. If I could get Mumsnet to ban me for my own good I would! 😂😆😭

AllOfThemWitches · 24/11/2022 13:17

Wow he has the patience of a saint tbh. I wouldn't be happy with sex as infrequently either but I'd probably just end the relationship so hats off to him, hope it all works out alright.

TarquinOliverNimrod · 24/11/2022 13:21

The OP’s DH sounds eminently sensible and decent, not to mention bloody patient. I would have been long gone if I were him.

Sorry, OP, but you don’t come across well here. Going off in a strop when your poor DH tries to raise how he feels is just disrespectful. You don’t deserve him. Let him go and have the opportunity to have a shot at a relationship with a loving woman.

Melonapplepear · 24/11/2022 14:01

MaybeIWillFuckOffThen · 24/11/2022 13:17

You’re the same one saying “in ancient times people had fifteen kids and just gave up on sex. Just cuddle up on the couch and eat popcorn and pretend it is not a problem.” 😂

I'm bloody not!!! Why are people on the opposite side of this argument so bloody hard of reading? Where have I said that?

Honestly I need to get a life. I actually find this discussion interesting so I read all the posts properly, engage with specific arguments, come up with examples and rebuttals - then people just accuse me of saying things I abso-fucking-lutely have NOT said, don't even bother to quote what I said that they THINK means I am saying that, and just fart off some sentences off the tops of their heads. Which I suppose is fair enough for a pointless online forum but it's bloody frustrating. Sigh. I really do need to get a life. If I could get Mumsnet to ban me for my own good I would! 😂😆😭

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I've noticed reading comprehension seems to be a real issue on Mumsnet, I despair at times 😂😬

MavisChunch29 · 24/11/2022 14:07

It's not lack of reading comprehension, in this example it's deliberate.