Married to someone with Asperger's/ASC: support thread 7

[Daftasabroom]

New thread, and as previously:

This thread is for partners seeking to understand the dynamics of their relationship with someone with ASD. It is a support thread, and a safe space to have a bit of a rant. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner. (ASD partners welcome to lurk or pop in, but please don't argue with other posters and tell them they are wrong)

I think us ND in happy relationships just know enough of each other's language that neither has to translate much for the other. I saw a couple of you mention having to change your language and tone when talking to your partners. Being "blunt" - which to us is being direct, expressing clear expectations - works because it leaves less room for errors (misinterpretation) to occur during the translation process. Which means less conflict. Which means less anxiety, guilt, frustration etc.

If my DP wants a hug, he says, "Give me a hug, woman." I'll say "Fiiine. Needy git." and happily hug him. Or if it's during an unhappy moment, I'll leave out the cheeky comment (I had to learn humour isn't always appropriate). But there is no shame involved. There shouldn't be shame. You have nothing to be ashamed about in asking or telling your ND partner what actions you want from them, and they shouldn't feel ashamed for being made the way they are. Good people actually do want to make you happy. It may not be something they need personally (which is often why they don't think about it), but if it is something they can do, they will do it. Selfish partners won't.

A lot of the time they probably don't know which behaviour is appropriate or even wanted, because every situation is different, and sometimes it is the wrong thing to do, and they'll have chosen wrong in the past so now they have a fear of saying or doing the wrong thing again. It is also worth noting that rudeness, aggression and violence are not autistic traits. If your autistic partner behaves like that, it is not because he/she is autistic. He/she just just bog-standard abusive.

I saw someone talk about being ill and their partner not helping. For me, that is a fear thing. Them seeing their loved one ill or in pain is terrifying. Because it reminds them of how important you are to them. You are their person, their rock, their love, remember? They don't know how they would cope without you. That fear either paralyses them so they are completely useless in a time of crisis, or their brain blanks it out, they go into a kind of protection stasis mode, then act as if nothing is wrong. It's not serious. She's fine. If she gets on with things that proves everything is fine. But neither behaviour is because they don't love you. Quite the opposite, imo. At the time there is no way for them to communicate this, but maybe later, when their brains have unlocked, they might be able to talk about it. But not everyone has this self-awareness. It's worth noting that this reaction is common in non-ND people too, so it isn't necessarily because of their autism.

Going back to my language barrier analogy, some of us ND look like we function so well that you would never know that we're not native NT speakers. But we still do have to go through that translation process. We're just faster at it. But it tends to fall apart under stress, upset, tiredness, when unexpected things happen, when outside factors affect our ability to think. That's when the autistic "accent" becomes apparent. We tend to be much better communicators in writing because there is time and distance. You can't see us sitting here, chewing on our hair or tapping each finger against our thumb one at a time. We have time to think. We have the time to check and change what we have written before we send it. (This essay has actually been edited to be shorter!).

Have you tried this with your partners? Say what you need to say in text or email then give them time to respond. It might be easier for them to explain their thoughts and express their feelings to you. I know it is for me. In person, I just go blank.

But I do think it is often different for women, because we really are conditioned from a young age to put other people first, to be kind, to please others. It is why ND women mask better. (Masking is performing that final translation stage in the process.) It's something we do for other people, so we can communicate with them in their language, so we can function in this foreign world, because we are aware most natives of this world do not have the ability or the interest in wanting to communicate with us in our language. Boys, traditionally, don't have that same pressure put on them, so they mask less as children, and therefore they get diagnosed earlier.

Also I do think autistic people with ADHD present a lot differently compared to people who are "just" autistic. It feels like there is a different kind of energy(?) involved. The autism and the ADHD push against each other in some ways. Or rather, when the ADHD is coming on strong, it masks the ASD. There is more motion and emotion visible, and more overthinking, more conflicting processing, more analysing going on inside. Which may sound useful for being able to interact with the world, but, believe me, it is a clusterfuck of a combination. You don't know whether you are coming or going.

Anyway, I do hope this helps to give a little insight into what might be going on in your partners' heads. I know it's hard to understand things you don't experience yourself. You only know what you know. Then, when you have a partner who can't communicate in a way that you can understand, you can only interpret their behaviour based on your own knowledge and experience. This is why a lot of ASD people get upset at these threads. You are describing behaviours which are very common and familiar to a lot of us ASD people, but your interpretation of it is not what we are intending with those behaviours. It's so negative. It hurts to know that this is how people see it, and sometimes hurt people react from a place of trauma because these misunderstandings are something we've been dealing with our whole lives.

Peace n love.

Ugh! Sorry! That still looks like a wall of text. 😩

This is why a lot of ASD people get upset at these threads. You are describing behaviours which are very common and familiar to a lot of us ASD people, but your interpretation of it is not what we are intending with those behaviours. It's so negative. It hurts to know that this is how people see it, and sometimes hurt people react from a place of trauma because these misunderstandings are something we've been dealing with our whole lives.

I think the same can be said the other way too. Lots of posters myself included have been through trauma in their relationships with their ND partner, when ND posters come here belittling and denying their experiences and trying to shut them up it hurts and is triggering because often the behaviour by those posters is the very similar to behaviour that that posters have experienced from their partners.

Thank you. You should have seen the bits I cut out. There was a whole story about communicating with my dog ffs.

Thank you @BadNomad I think those posts were incredible.

I know. When under stress, that translation process I talked about falls apart.

We see how you describe autistic behaviours and don't agree with your interpretations of them. We repeatedly try to express that in our straight-to-the-point, lacking-nuance style. You misinterpret that as thinking we are trying to belittle/deny/shut you down. We get more annoyed because you are misinterpreting what we're trying to say. You get more annoyed because our frustration looks like anger and bullying. We misinterpret (I hope) your escalating frustration as bullying and hatred for autism/autistics etc etc.

It's just a breakdown in communication. Neither side is taking time to think from the other side's perspective. Everyone is just reacting. Which is what happens a lot in relationships where there is a language barrier like this.

Thank you @BadNomad. I have visions of you being a therapist who specialises in ND/NT relationships and if you aren’t, you missed your calling in life :) Absolutely profound posts from you.

The part about being their person, their rock really hit a nerve. Whenever I asked my exDH if he actually loved me and why (because I just couldn’t understand from how he treated me how he could possibly love me) he would always answer “ yes I love you because you’re my wife.” This would always upset me even more as it sounded so devoid of any depth, emotion or understanding of me as a person, that he had to love me because he married me. Your post really resonated with me in this respect as I see he was telling me I was his person in his way but I never heard it like that. Thank you.

😔
That makes me sad because if I was your DH then, yes, that would have been what I meant. In fact, I have said "Of course I do. I'm with you, aren't I?" before. Because it seems so obvious to me. It's why I don't ask it. I just assume if someone is with me, it's because they want to be with me, and I'm happy and content with that.

Would he ever ask you that question?

It's common for men to be quite useless when it comes to feelings and emotions anyway. Probably because of social conditioning, or the families they grew up in. They're good at suppressing them. But then when you add in autism, it's hard to know what is nature and what is nurture.

Im afraid that by now this thread has more autistic people on it than the people who came here because they were struggling.

It's become the Autistic Thread for Autistic People supporting each other about how wrong the partners are. There are a few really helpful autistic people, but all other voices are being drowned out. Where's that happened before?

Sorry @BadNomad because you have a lot of insight and useful comments to make but it seems to me that this thread has lost its original purpose and at this point I don't really care if my ex-H was afraid of what to do when I was ill and going into sepsis and he refused to take me to hospital. I just needed him to do it.

@BadNomad no he never would have asked me that question. It would seem ridiculous to him even when things got as bad as they did. As you say it’s just too very different ways of communicating, add in a large dollop of childhood trauma on both sides and it’s a recipe for disaster no matter how much you fundamentally love that person. It is very sad for sure.

Sepsis btw is a very life threatening disease.

Sorry @BadNomad because you have a lot of insight and useful comments to make but it seems to me that this thread has lost its original purpose and at this point I don't really care if my ex-H was afraid of what to do when I was ill and going into sepsis and he refused to take me to hospital. I just needed him to do it.

That's ok, I'll step out. I did think "support" covered wanting to understand why autistic partners do what they do, but I understand if you just more of a vent and sympathy thread.

🤗(<-- Genuine non-contact hug, in case it looks like sarcasm!)

@TomPinch

That was a horrible, unfair post and you’ve made me cry. Just like my school
bullies, my university bullies and my work bullies did.

Right now Im upset and cross because a couple of posters have quite deliberately destructively imo derailed the thread in a very unpleasant manner and the people who came here in the first place are genuinely struggling.

So I realise I've been unkind and at this precise moment I can't say I'm sorry as I'm beyond fed up that people are being driven off the thread. I do recognise however that you meant your posts, which were effective and well written, helpfully.

It's sad that you won't actually listen to what they are saying and instead react in a 'nasty bullies attacking me' kind of way. I completely agree with @TomPinch your posts are not coming across the way you think they are.

@BadNomad Your posts were fine, I guess. I'm just upset. This thread was a lifeline during an appalling time, and it has been invaded and possibly destroyed by a very small handful of individuals. So I am not being fair, and your posts were appreciated by others, so please ignore my ungraciousness.

And I'm sorry for that, and certainly not what I wanted to do. But you need to take responsibility for the things you say, just like everyone else does, and you need to listen and take seriously what people say to you, even when you don't agree with it - because you might just be wrong.

I'm afraid it's just not good enough to compare me to the bullies of your past, as that, once again, is not taking responsibility.

Once again, I said what I said because I believe you are genuine and well-intentioned. If I thought otherwise I wouldn't have troubled myself.

The title of this thread could not be any more specific. If people don't like it, please create your own thread.