Married to someone with Asperger's/ASC: support thread 7

[Daftasabroom]

New thread, and as previously:

This thread is for partners seeking to understand the dynamics of their relationship with someone with ASD. It is a support thread, and a safe space to have a bit of a rant. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner. (ASD partners welcome to lurk or pop in, but please don't argue with other posters and tell them they are wrong)

I'm a pretty good communicator, tbh. I mean, I helped kids pass understand concepts, learn skills and pass exams to get into uni for twelve years. Worked in a department with ten other teachers. Was a deputy head of year. Specialised in SEN and trained other teachers in my area.

Have been with my husband for seventeen years and produced two fab kids.

Autistic AF tho 😀

[This is going to be looooog, sorry in advance. I think it will be relatable for a lot of people.]

I'm sorry you went through that. I actually had a long reply typed up for you, but then my laptop ate it, and I had to walk away before I threw it. The gist of it was that the lack of understanding between you was a big issue, but I don't think a diagnosis would necessarily have saved your marriage, because he would still be ND and you would both still have conflicting needs.

I actually do know what it's like to be in those mismatched types of relationships. I'll give a tiny snippet of one -

This one time, when with a previous partner, he took my hand in public. I snatched it away. He was shocked. I said, "I'm sorry. I don't like that." He said "Why do you not want to hold my hand?" Again, I said, "I don't like it. It's a sensory thing. It really isn't personal." But he couldn't accept that, he said I had rejection him. I said it wasn't a rejection! But he just couldn't understand. He thought it should be different with him. "It's not a big ask. It would mean the world to me. Especially because I know you'd be doing it for me". But I couldn't do it. It's hard for others to understand that I feel like ripping my arm out of its socket, setting it on fire, then throwing it into a black hole when someone - anyone - touches my hand. It is not a little thing to me. I can't do it.

This discussion went on and on. Both of us explaining our feelings, but neither budging. I thought he was cruel for trying to coerce me into doing something I didn't want to do. He took offence at "cruel" and "coerce". He thought I was just proving, yet again, how little he really matters, that I just didn't want to do. this. one. little. thing. for. him because I only cared about myself.

His pain was obvious. But when he looked at me, he would have seen ice. Hard-faced. Iron maiden. But, believe me, the pain is there. It just comes out later. I felt like shit. I knew I'd hurt him. I knew he couldn't understand it. I knew he was adding this to my list of flaws. I knew it was triggering his insecurities. He always made sure I knew how worthless I made him feel.

On and on and on. In the end, the only way I could stop the horrific build-up of anxiety in me and my impending implosion, was to shut the conversation down and walk off. Which is another of my flaws, btw. I don't cope well with being cornered. "You always do this! Shut me down because you don't want to talk. It doesn't matter that I want to talk. Who am I anyway. I'm nothing. A nobody." He didn't understand that I literally could not talk any more. He could only see everything I did as stubborn choices.

This type of conflict was constant. It was a cycle. Something would trigger someone, we'd argue/discuss/debate/cry for hours, storm off, wait for the other to apologise, but eventually just go back to normal when it was clear no apology was coming. Rinse and repeat. Dying a little more each time.

That relationship nearly destroyed me. It was awful. We were awful together. He ended up cheating on me and blamed me for not giving him enough love and attention.

Now, my current DP has zero interest in holding hands, so that is never going to be an issue in our relationship. And he knows my love when I express it, which is usually something like me approaching him while he's working at the laptop and gently headbutting him. He smiles and says "I love you too." It's soooo fucking nice. There are no battles. No conflict. We have so much in common. We figured out what works and doesn't work for us. For example, we'll probably never live together because his breathing makes me want to stab him and he can't stand my untidiness. We don't take it personally.

My former partner would say I was an awful nightmare to be with. My current DP thinks I'm the bee's knees. I am exactly the same person. That is why I believe it is the combination of personalities in the relationship that determines if it is a good relationship or not. Not the neurology. Because I am as autistic in this relationship as I was in that other one. My behaviour is the same. Yet the relationships couldn't be more different. How is that possible if autism is to blame?

Sooo, my point is, your needs are your needs. Your ex-DH couldn't meet them. All a diagnosis would likely have done for you is make you feel like you had to suppress your normal, natural needs. But you should never do that, because that only leads to pain, conflict, and resentment, as you know. You deserve to be loved the way you need to be loved.

(I'll shut up now. I think this reply is even longer than the original for some reason.)

Not as good as you think you are because you’ve missed the point of my post.

Sooo, my point is, your needs are your needs. Your ex-DH couldn't meet them. All a diagnosis would likely have done for you is make you feel like you had to suppress your normal, natural needs. But you should never do that, because that only leads to pain, conflict, and resentment, as you know. You deserve to be loved the way you need to be loved.

ill agree with that. Fully.

As I said before, I wish someone had said that years and years ago when it became clear that autism is a constant feature in my family.

BUT this was NEVER what was said. This is the first time I’ve ever seen an autistic person expressing things in that way.
What has been said repeatedly to me was that I was at fault for not adapting to my dh needs. It was all about FAULT, not doing enough etc…. There are many examples in these support threads about it.

You didn’t understand, it was OBVIOUSLY an autistic shutdown.
Well if you had made the effort to learn about autism you would know…
This is just ableist…..

(and no I’m not going to go back and find the exact posts or argue that this is not what they meant. This is how I understood some of the posts and they’ve always made me feel like shit knowing the effort ive put in trying to understand and adapt).

I am sorry that people have said that to you.

It's not something I have ever done - I have focused on what I can or cannot change in my comments, because the only thing any of us can change is that within ourselves.

With one exception. I cannot be less autistic just as I cannot be less physically disabled. I have spent a lifetime being told to mask more, be less autistic, try harder, do more, be less me. And I can't do that.

Just wear the jumper. It looks nice and we are going out to dinner. For example. As a child. I don't like it - but I get labelled difficult. Why do I have to be difficult. Why can't I just wear the nice clothes that my parents bought for me. Why do I have to be so awkward I'm an embarrassment.

But the jumper makes me feel like my skin is on fire. I want to rip my arms off and scratch at my torso until it bleeds because the sensation is overloading my brain and I can't block it out. But I have to. Because it's dinner with grandma and I have to smile and be pleasant while my body is on fire and it feels I'm being stung by thousands and millions of bees and I have to try to answer people politely and remember to smile. And then I get berated because I didn't make small talk. And I was rude.

My physical disability has an effect on my communication. I have severe brain fog, aka cognitive issues. It affects my ability to concentrate and my memory. Sometimes, I forget the end of my sentence and simply can’t carry on.
Sometimes, like yesterday, we start a conversation with DH and the dcs and I can’t even remember what was the original point of the discussion - what was the original question. I struggle to express myself sometimes too - everything comes out jumbled even though I know what I want to say.

Seeing how DH and dc2 function, I’d say it is still completely different. The communication difficulties are easier to solve.
In MY experience, it’s linked to the fact I still have full awareness that I have some issues and I have a flexibility that DH hasn’t.
eg when DH is ‘stuck’ on some understanding, I can tell him the same thing in many different ways (because I’m aware of my own communication issues), he just doesn’t get it. Once he thinks ‘this is what Vahiné means’, it’s extremely hard for him to change that.

Spectacularly ableist AND patronising @Christmascountdownison - quite a duo

@BadNomad many thanks for your reply, I really appreciate it and your first relationship sounds exactly like my marriage and I too am sorry you went through that. It is awful. I totally agree with you that I, nor anyone, should have to change and bend to be something they're not, I am who I am and I've learned this through years of therapy after we split. I even had to start writing down what I like, something as simple as liking tea, as I was so lost in our marriage and bent so much to try and be the person I "thought" my exDH needed. We are alike in so many ways, share similar interests, get on very well as friends (we still live together!) but are poles apart in communication and affection in a romantic relationship.

I have a DS12 who is just diagnosed so trying to navigate this too, he is someone who also would rather set his arm on fire than hold my hand, when I just want to snuggle him endlessly!

Again, many thanks for your reply it has really helped me understand my exDH's side of things and how I made him feel.

I am glad you're in the right relationship for you now. x

Thé issue i have with either saying it’s because of autism (even though there is no way the autism doesn’t play a part) or screaming ‘it’s ableist’ (and I can see why some would say that) is that it getting everyone stuck in a ‘it’s your FAULT if there are some issues in the relationship’.

For me, looking for fault isn’t helping (I’d say that with an NT/NT marriage too). Both partners always have a part to play in the situation. Incl the fact BOTH OF US are responsible for staying in a relationship that doesn’t fit our needs….

I also think that when you approach things as ‘it’s your fault/autism fault/ableist fault’, people feel trapped in a corner and react in anger. (There is a hell of a lot of anger on this thread). People hold onto their beliefs/pov even stronger and nothing changes apart from more and more people feeling hurt.

You're a pretty good communicator? No, you're really not. You seem to lack self awareness in that area I'm afraid.

I also don’t think anyone said ‘it’s the same than in an NT/NT relationship’.

But simply that in ANY relationship, regardless of whether one partner is ND/physically disabled etc…, the aim should be that your needs have to be met. And that sometimes, you can’t find a way to have those needs met, regardless of how much you or your partner try.

Btw I want to say thank you to all the people that have posted in the last couple of days.

I went to bed reeling yesterday
But somehow comments that made me angry and those who made me think ‘hell YES!!’ helped the penny dropped for me.

For the first time, I have a feel of what could be a good way for me to move forward. Without this guilty feeling that I am somehow not good enough/defective.

Lets see what comes out of that.

some - not all - of the autistic people here are only interested in their own pov and will hammer on at it even when it's as appropriate as a hat on a fish in a tree.

If you feel you're the one giving and your partner is the one taking and you're unhappy about that, leave Back in fantasy land eh? what do you do when you have kids who won't be safe with their father because he doesn't see danger, or if you don't have money?

Such a simple, and very unrealistic, comment.

---

It’s all done separately because that’s what the ND person wants and there’s very little compromise.

I will say about this that I'm not sure it's what the ND -wants- as such. I think it's simply a difference in style that runs so deep that in some relationships there is no way to bridge it, even where there really is love on both sides and a strong desire to make it work. Sometimes love is not enough :( (in quite a few contexts)

I like the hat on a fish in a tree analogy 😁

I can't wait for the whole holiday season to be over now. Once I'm home I'll be able to start figuring things out. Will I still be on this thread next year? I thought I was leaving this time last year but things got better or looked like they might. But honestly I don't actually think they're ever going to now and thank you to the posters who understand why and to those who clarified why (albeit not always intentionally).

It is possible for two good people to love each other in their own ways but have completely different understandings of what love is. I think I'm the closest thing to 'love' that my husband has ever had but it's a bit like an octopus loving an emu. Which would be fine if the octopus actually recognised that it's an octopus and that emu love isn't just a textbook list of behaviours to tick off.

I said on a previous thread that my husband said I'm his best friend and I was both moved and baffled because he doesn't even know me and he has no real desire to share our inner lives. And that's why it's so lonely being with him and in the end it will never change. There's just an emotional range that isn't there and it's sad because he is trying very hard to be a caring partner in his own way and doesn't actually understand what's missing.

I really resonate with both of you @FMSucks and @BlueTick for what it's worth and with so many of you here. You have really helped me understand things more clearly. (Though I have to say I'm ND too - ADHD in my case, which seems to be a common pairing on these threads. Maybe a mutual attraction based on neurodiversity while appearing on paper to counteract each other's deficits. The trouble is I can learn strategies that help me function better but I'm not sure my husband can expand his emotional range because he doesn't actually see what's not there).

Yeah I get told I’m patronising a lot - I’m also autistic so 🤷🏻‍♀️

Me too @Christmascountdownison - so what's your point?

You get told you’re patronising a lot too? What a coincidence 😂.

@BlueTick and @SquirrelSoShiny

@SquirrelSoShiny I like the octopus and emu analogy! :)

I think now that if you genuinely try your best, and keep trying and give it time, then one of the most important things is to know when to cut loose.

Had I left ex-H earlier, I think that in time there would be the possibility of friendship. He's being kind and really quite pleasant at the moment and things are civil. But I don't think atm that we can ever be friends at the moment because the moment I think of him, there's a block of cold ice tinged with fear in the pit of my stomach. It's a shame, as he's not, at heart, a bad man at all and he really does love his children and used to love me, and I used to love him. But a very strong desire to make it work plus circumstances meant I couldn't leave in time.

Solidarity @ReleaseTheDucksOfWar and ty for all ur kind and insightful posts, they have helped x

I love both the octopus and emu analogy and the the hat on a fish in a tree image.
English not being my first language, I’m having great fun with those 😜😜😉

The issue of wrangle deeply with one persons needs vs your own is one I can totally relate to.
Also the issue of putting myself first, putting my needs first at least some of the time Wo feeling guilty about it.

This thing about ‘competing’ disabilities has been exactly what it was about.
I have to say I wish DH was like @BadNomad and able to express what is an issue for him and why. Not having to guess all the time (and I suspect often guessing wrong because, you know, I can’t read minds) would have made things easier. Easier to find a compromise or a different way to do things. Also easier to realise if your needs weren’t compatible.

A lot of sadness and regret for me today tbh.

You used the term 'flip back' @BlueTick, not me.