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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How do I address this with StepKids mother?

138 replies

WhatToDoWithThisNow · 07/11/2022 15:24

I'm trying to keep this short for everyone, but it probably won't be. I'm not asking if I'm being unreasonable so I don't think this belongs there, but if it needs to be somewhere else, please move it there - what I need to know is has anyone got any advice for how to approach this issue with my step-kids' mother. For a little (or a lot) of background info:
I have two steps-kiddos, one biological (husband's child) one the younger sibling of my husband's child, however her father was out of the country before the test even showed a result so...

Doesn't matter, they come as a set and seem to be awesome kids, so not a problem.
Here is my problem: my step-kids' mother (along with myself) cannot seem to draw the line financially, so to speak.
And I cannot ask my husband to address this with her because they have absolutely no contact. I don't 'blame' either one of them for taking that position, honestly, and I really just try to be as accommodating and diplomatic as I possibly can be with this entire situation.

My husband wasn't aware of my stepson's existence until he was almost 4, because his mother had spent his entire life telling several other men they were each his father, and getting support from all of them. (None of them lived in the same country, and none of them knew about each other. My husband was actually the last of the men to know...My husband had a one time liaison with her while they were in the same country, but she was married and when he found out soon after they had slept together, he washed his hands of the situation). He didn't hear from her for years after that. It was only after her main 'relationship' with the primary gentleman went badly that she tracked my husband down and here we are now.
My husband is still very jaded by the way she handled things and how she has (unfortunately) continued to manipulate situations for financial support... He won't have any contact with her. His son is a teenager now and learning English so my husband got him a cellphone so they can communicate and there's no need for him to have contact with her, he says...

I have tried for years to get them to do this between them but he won't often budge and whenever he does, she always does something related to lying about why she needs money (above what he and I send her on a regular basis) and for him it's not the money, it's the anger he constantly feels at the fact that she LIED to basically everyone for so long about the child's paternity and screwed them out of a relationship, etc. etc.
I don't ask what she does do with the money, ever, but her own mother stays in contact with me because it's (in her own opinion) the only way to keep her daughter on the honest and straight and narrow because she herself has been manipulated out of money and her main concern is her grandchildren, always)
I'll give you an example. When I was pregnant with our eldest child, my husband found his dream car for a good price. He bought it and was fixing it up, and hoped to save some of it for when our child was old enough to help, and he was going to hand the project car down to our child. (Remember, we didn't know his son existed at this time)

After we learned of his existence, she contacted my husband is a frenzy saying she and her brother had had a huge physical fight and the child had been injured in that altercation, and he needed to be seen at a hospital. She had no money, of course. My husband immediately sold the car for a pittance compared to what it was worth, and sent the money on over.
This is the beginning of my contact with my stepkids' grandmother because she wanted to check where the money had come from (she was still living in the country at the time)
When I told her what we'd been told she was horrified. Her son would never do anything like that to his own sister and certainly wouldn't hurt his nephew. So we were duped and my husband was enraged. Stepkids' mother then admitted she lied - I won't bore you with the details...

It's like every single extra lie about something just shuts my husband back down and it's months again, if not years, before I manage to convince him to extend an olive branch. It's exhausting and so I just don't bother trying to push the issue because it's not fair to him. I will add that, while it is not how I would have gone about things, I understand she was in a tough situation, and wasn't using the best judgment... so I do try to not judge her.
Oh, and stepson was born was born some time before we were together or married so there is no contention or acrimony - no cheating...

Anywho, I am typically of the opinion of being pretty much all-in financially - whatever money is needed and available is what is sent over without issue... But things have changed now and I cannot seem to figure out if I'm a dick or if she is overstepping.

Step-kids' mother does not work. I am not blaming or judging her at all, it is simply the way things are. She has no employment prospects and no education... In her home country she has no support at all, she only has her own mother who now lives in a different country and is letting her and the children live in her home while she is out of the country... When she met my husband she was married to a citizen of a different country and traveling for work with her husband... He found out she was seeing other men, had her deported, divorced her, and so on. So that's how she ended up in her home country, pregnant with no support. I imagine it's been a long and hard slog for her. She has had only basic schooling and has never worked a job.

Hope everyone is still with me.
So my husband and I send money regularly, and whenever extra expenses pop up. The silver lining is that, financially, we can just about afford to support two households because where they live the cost of living is a fraction of where we live. Does that make sense?
So the kids are cared for, all of them.

Here is the rub. My husband has (over the years) voiced his objection to basically me sending as much money as I do. He's not dumb, he knows what things cost here and over there and he thinks I'm overly involved (I am). He thinks now that my stepdaughter is in school (which we pay for) that their mother should go get a job, even if it's in a factory a long distance away.. Or means moving the kids from the stability of her mother's/their grandmother's home, into the city so she can work...

And the thing that has really thrown a spanner into the works is this past weekend she messaged to ask for money. No problem, except we are cutting back everywhere because we are having another baby and so everyone is having to make concessions. We are still able to give the kids what they need and some of what they want but we all need to be very careful about spending. I don't involve myself with what she spends money on because the kids are fed and have their uniforms and attend school so the money must be going on them, surely.
She now wants money because she has enrolled both the children into an extracurricular activity that is not related to school or Church (religion is very important in their community) and has contacted me asking me to send x amount of money to cover the registration costs for a huge jamboree they're having, and because she has offered to supply and cook all of the food for it.

This is the time of year whenever my husband and I move things around, squeeze and pinch so that all of the children can have some presents at Christmas. There is no other way to say it, really. And he is very upset that she enrolled them both into this extra curricular activity with absolutely no way to pay for it at all.
I wanted to gently ask her why she has done this, but it's not my business. I wanted to ask her how she plans to support this long-term, but it's also not my business and, although my stepson is old enough to contact his dad without her, stepdaughter is not and I don't want any hard feelings that develop because of this to result in stepdaughter missing out or contact (electronic, there is no physical contact, have never met either child in person) being withheld...
The activity is very costly, year round. Which is the reason our residential children at home don't participate in it, so it's isn't as though our children at home are having a go at it and the NR children aren't being offered the same opportunity...
Idk what to do. My husband is adamant that we should not pay for it, but I don't know if that's exactly the correct position to take.
What do I do? Any advice? Anyone ever been in this situation. I know I need to talk to him but it always ends up him feeling bad based on my argument of my position, and him giving in, but I do worry he thinks I value my coparenting relationship with the kids' mother more than I do his opinion on these matters.
I have nobody to ask in real life because my family all think I'm stupid for even entertaining her and not just blocking her because there has never been a DNA test, because by the time she finally agreed to do one, we only asked for one of those peace of mind tests... And she sabotaged the test by telling the post office there (the sample needed to be mailed) that my stepson had TB (he didn't!) and they then would not ship the sample. Also there is no reciprocity between our countries, so no court in either of our lands can force her to submit to one... So, no joy there...
Thanks for reading all of this, you're a gem.
Sorry that was very long.

OP posts:
LemonDrop22 · 08/11/2022 11:47

Sperm can live for almost a week. If she had unprotected sex with 4 men within a week of ovulation (and then within 48 hrs of ovulation) it could be any of them I suppose. Unless she knows it's more likely to be some of them due to the timing of the sex Vs her likely ovulation. She may not be that switched on.

I wonder what dictated the order in which she approached the 4 men claiming paternity.

LemonDrop22 · 08/11/2022 11:48

Your h was fourth (?)

Doesn't bode well for parternity if she followed any kind of logical approach for most likely father.

WhatToDoWithThisNow · 08/11/2022 11:48

@LemonDrop22 no ma'am he doesn't. It's not in his nature, he's very linear in most other dealings in his life. Those were the 'nicest' messages, the other ones who certainly be deleted by MNHQ.
He spends his days and nights negotiating with people all over the world and has huge amounts of interface as far as building defense strategies for war ships, but you task him with speaking to her and it's like he either cannot control himself or he just forgets everything he knows and cannot seem to figure out a way to get any information/resolution.

OP posts:
ohmyohmy123 · 08/11/2022 11:49

I am in shock that anyone would pay for a child they didn't know was there's. Especially after hearing all the back story.

She is using her children's as pawns. It would surprise me if they weren't even her children and she was part of a scam getting money from lots of men each month.

WhatToDoWithThisNow · 08/11/2022 11:49

@LemonDrop22 yes ma'am he was the 4th, if you DONT count her husband who was the one person with access to the child when he was a baby, and WAS able to get a test. He nipped that in the bud immediately because their marriage was registered in the Philippines and he didn't want her telling people he was the child's father

OP posts:
WhatToDoWithThisNow · 08/11/2022 11:51

Well ladies, He's up, and we're going to talk. He's given me and hug and told me not to be so hard on myself. He's getting coffee and going to start calling in a few hours whenever clinics open up. I'll keep everyone updated if anyone wants an update.

OP posts:
LemonDrop22 · 08/11/2022 11:51

WhatToDoWithThisNow · 08/11/2022 11:48

@LemonDrop22 no ma'am he doesn't. It's not in his nature, he's very linear in most other dealings in his life. Those were the 'nicest' messages, the other ones who certainly be deleted by MNHQ.
He spends his days and nights negotiating with people all over the world and has huge amounts of interface as far as building defense strategies for war ships, but you task him with speaking to her and it's like he either cannot control himself or he just forgets everything he knows and cannot seem to figure out a way to get any information/resolution.

It's very hard when you're in the middle of it and it affects you personally, but it seems like you would both benefit from switching over more to your logical and analytical minds. The easiest way to do that would be to imagine you were a relative or friend of people in your position and what advice you'd give them..

ICanHideButICantRun · 08/11/2022 11:52

Honestly, you are the most naïve poster I've seen on here. The ONLY reason she hasn't done a DNA test on her son is because she knows or seriously suspects he's not your husband's child.

And do you really think she spends your money on scouts etc for the child? She has greed written all over her - if she gets money it'll go on herself.

PeekAtYou · 08/11/2022 11:52

I think that you should block her on your devices. That way you can't be manipulated into sending her money.

As annoyed as your h is, he needs to minimise the amount he talks to her and let her have the last word on text. Of course he's thinking stuff like "stand on your own feet for once" but that inflames things and guarantees a reply when he should be focused on wrapping things up as quickly as possible.

It will be interesting to see if the DNA happens- the fact that she brought up lies and cheating makes me think she's not sure and doesn't want to do something that makes the money stop.

LemonDrop22 · 08/11/2022 11:56

On a related note, I do not understand why so many men are willing to have sex with randomer without protecting themselves against STDs or pregnancies.

Supposedly intelligent men.

LemonDrop22 · 08/11/2022 11:56

*randomers

aSofaNearYou · 08/11/2022 12:00

I don't have time to read all the updates but I read the OP - I think you should take a massive step back and let him deal with it entirely. You are allowing yourself to be manipulated and I think he has a better idea of it.

Being brutally honest, given he's never met her at all so there is no relationship to preserve where she considered him a father figure, I don't see why he has anything at all to do with the younger child. She isn't his. It sounds quite likely the boy isn't his either, and a DNA test should have been insisted upon. But there's no reason for him to be paying for her other child as well.

WhatToDoWithThisNow · 08/11/2022 12:03

@ICanHideButICantRun if you liked that, then you'll love this.
For his 9th birthday, (i believe it was) I asked him what he wanted. She TOLD me (translating for us) he wanted to go to a themepark that is comparable to Disneyland there, I can't remember the name of it, and so I said okay. At the time my husband was going through chemo and I was the only one working. So I do what I need to do, take on clients (self employed) and save and save. His mother and I had agreed that he would take ONE friend, because it's what he said he wanted. The money I sent would have covered travel, lodging, and a day at the park for him and friend.
The DAY I was waiting for pictures of his happy time there she sent me an email (pretty sure I still have it)
Reading along the lines of
'Please dont be mad at me but I asked child again what he wanted and he said he wanted a party for his whole class, instead...
So I booked a day spa for 20 of his classmates and they could all have a party and celebrate together'
My husband told her that wasn't the fucking deal and she'd better take him to the theme park, and she responded saying it was a done deal and had already happened!
What effing 9/10 year old wants to go to a damn day spa for their birthday instead of a theme park?!
It was what SHE wanted. Then there were the sm photos all over fb of her posing and relaxing on the day spa sign 🙄.
We fell out hard over that, and that was actually one of the times when I cut off contact for several months. I used to have a backbone...
Then she reached out asking to put it all behind us and start over (another test was agreed at this time) and we all just carried one...
Yep. Probably just change my last name to 'Mug'.
Be back later, ladies.

OP posts:
WhatToDoWithThisNow · 08/11/2022 12:05

@LemonDrop22
Judge Lake (paternity court) said just out here having sex like AIDS doesn't exist!!!
I don't judge them though because they were just stupid and young but you're not wrong. They ALL dodged a diseased bullet, yes ma'am.
Now people are older and wiser and I would HOPE think better of that kind of behavior 🤷

OP posts:
PussInBin20 · 08/11/2022 12:16

Well she’s shown you she can’t be trusted a zillion times over, yet you still pay. Just why?? Why are you so invested in this when your DH doesn’t want to be? On some level you must be enjoying all the drama, as you simply have no reason to engage with her, her Mum, her ex-husband, all the other men….

WhatToDoWithThisNow · 08/11/2022 12:21

Oh and someone earlier touched on 'guilt'. It probably actually is guilt on my part because my husband and I work very hard to give the children in our home a much better standard of living than we ever had. We have gone through some shit. We almost lost him, he lost his career (he wasn't fit for duty) and had to carve himself out a new one, we have young children etc. So lots of normal and not so normal happenings but the thing that sticks in my mind is that we have children living in the home and it grates on me that stepson has SUCH a terrible standard of living (compared to my children at home). And that is fueled by his mother, when he was younger, she would talk to him and translate for me and my husband, and whenever I started learning the language, I could understand some of the stuff she was saying to him and he was saying to her.
Nothing she was saying to me is what he was saying.
She would tell me/my husband that he was commenting on what a big house we have (it's a regular house, honestly) and what a big TV we have (it's a regular TV) and things of that nature, when in reality he wasn't saying anything of the sort. It was stuff SHE was saying to HIM!
Anyway the guilt sent in early, I admit. But my husband struggled because she had every opportunity to send him to live in this country, with his gran, so not even us, we'd never take a child away, but she changed her mind 4 million times (which i can understand as a mom) but hell, if you have such a terrible time raising your child why not do what's best for them?!
So I guess my husband was of the opinion (an opinion I shared) that just giving the child a standard of living was no big thing.
And like I said the amount we send has not always been that amount. sometimes it's been a pittance, whenever he was out of work and we were paying for the Mayo clinic, etc. It has only been such a high amount the last few years now that his company is doing well, even with covid.

OP posts:
WhatToDoWithThisNow · 08/11/2022 12:23

Okay he's going to start calling around. He back to talk later if anyone is around for an update.

OP posts:
KettrickenSmiled · 08/11/2022 12:30

WhatToDoWithThisNow · 08/11/2022 11:48

@LemonDrop22 no ma'am he doesn't. It's not in his nature, he's very linear in most other dealings in his life. Those were the 'nicest' messages, the other ones who certainly be deleted by MNHQ.
He spends his days and nights negotiating with people all over the world and has huge amounts of interface as far as building defense strategies for war ships, but you task him with speaking to her and it's like he either cannot control himself or he just forgets everything he knows and cannot seem to figure out a way to get any information/resolution.

FFS. This, & your legion paragraphs at 10:57 detailing all the interaction your DH is having with this woman is INSANITY.

If he is a negotiator, he ought to understand that you don't negotiate with (emotional) terrorists. Yet this, & your update, & the bonkers text exchange, all show him doing just that.

Has he not hard of JADE? It;s something every negotiator should be aware of.
duckduckgo.com/?q=justify+argue+defend+explain&t=newext&atb=v321-1&ia=web

What's he getting out of this totally needless back & forth?
It must be satisfying something in him, or he'd stop doing it.
What use is all this angst, all these tortured text messages, all this argument?

If he is a negotiator (if this is real at all, frankly) he should know damn well that he holds all the cards. That all he needs to is lay them on the table, disengage, & wait.

He doesn't need information/resolution.
All he needs is "get the test sorted, no more cash til you do, bye" & then put her on mute, check for return messages once a week, & forget all about it until she complies.

I think the pair of you like having this 3rd, very squeaky, wheel in your marriage, There's no other logical explanation for your ridiculous behaviour.

ReadingFestival2022 · 08/11/2022 12:32

WhatToDoWithThisNow · 08/11/2022 12:23

Okay he's going to start calling around. He back to talk later if anyone is around for an update.

Just spent the last hour reading this thread. OP, you're a good person and you've gone above and beyond for a family in need.
Please don't be hard on yourself - very few people would do what you both have done.
If I had one piece of advice though - please don't do the test through a local clinic in the PH. The level of corruption out there is rife, and she will find a way of fixing/altering the results. At least through the consulate you will have piece of mind that it's legitimate.
Hopefully you will find out the truth soon enough and can all move on - with or without them in your life.

KettrickenSmiled · 08/11/2022 12:37

It probably actually is guilt on my part because my husband and I work very hard to give the children in our home a much better standard of living than we ever had.
Do you seriously believe that you & DH are this woman's sole resource?
She'll have other men on the back burner, she may even be lining up a new husband, she has her mother ... if all else fails, she can choose to work.

Which doesn't mean you have to cut her off if DH wants to continue making these DC's lives better. But is ALSO doesn't mean he has to engage with her. The kid is 14, he doesn't need his mum on a vid call or whatever. And DH doesn't need to speak to his mum. You both seem addicted to the drama.

WhatToDoWithThisNow · 08/11/2022 12:43

@ReadingFestival2022 I was about to log out but we have heard that before about the clinics there, and I didn't want to say anything because it would only inflame this thread more. Her mom was the one who told my husband not to use those clinics and when my husband asked stepsons mom is she'd be willing to do a consulate test, she agreed but ONLY if my husband went there and signed the BC!!
That all got thrown out the window (the BC) but she was the one who really pushed for him going there (when stepson was young) so they could do the consulate test, but she demanded he go in person there to the Philippines.. Then a while later when she and my husband weren't speaking, she encouraged me to look into it and get it set up and everything... That was the time the consulate was too far...
I cannot make this shit up!
@KettrickenSmiled I'll give him the link and bring it up to him. Thank you.

OP posts:
WhatToDoWithThisNow · 08/11/2022 12:47

@KettrickenSmiled she doesn't anymore I know because, without sounding crass, she is a bit past her prime (aren't we all). I don't really know how else to say it. She doesn't have the charm with men anymore. The way you describe it was how exactly how things WERE carrying on when the child was younger and not a teenager and she had men running after her etc. Then she got pregnant by another American man who was married and he was out the door when she told him she was late... So the cycle started over but this time she had lots of sympathy because she was a young mom with two kids etc etc. Her mom actually foots the bill whenever my husband can't or just won't. Past her retirement and living here and working so she can send money back to finish building her home, the home her adult daughter and two grandchildren live in, which will be her real retirement whenever she finally finishes working...
As for the new husband, she has actually tried. Not that it has any bearing on this topic or issue, but she isn't allowed to enter the US for a period of some time because she committed, you guessed it, fiance visa fraud!!
Another long story...

OP posts:
WhatToDoWithThisNow · 08/11/2022 12:48

Okay I need to be off y'all its been uplifting getting all of this feedback and I needed the kick up the rear. I'll update after he has a test arranged but I am out of it. She's blocked on my sm and my husband has his email open to her.
Talk later ladies (for real this time)

OP posts:
KettrickenSmiled · 08/11/2022 13:05

she doesn't anymore I know because, without sounding crass, she is a bit past her prime (aren't we all). I don't really know how else to say it. She doesn't have the charm with men anymore.
How do you know?
You've never even met her.

Talk about enmeshment ...

PinotPony · 08/11/2022 13:57

This has to be the most batshit crazy thing I've read on here.

You both sound like you enjoy all the drama of it. All the talk of citizenship and such nonsense... The argumentative messages between your DH and her...

It's very simple. Tell her she gets no more money until she produces a positive DNA test. Then don't engage in any other discussions.

Why can't you do that?