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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Where is ChopinandChampagne? LB update?

1000 replies

gianfrancogorgonzola · 07/11/2022 12:34

Really hope you see this C&C, I was following your other threads (name change a lot) and wanted to check in to see how you are.

🙏🏼

OP posts:
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5
ChopinandChampagne · 30/12/2022 08:26

REignbow - thank you for your nocturnal message. It was much appreciated in the small hours. I was cogitating, suffering from insomnia, and my head was all over the place.

I am now clear, thanks to everyone's fabulous advice, that I will just post the stuff to LB's parents, as soon as possible, with no note. She has asked for space from me, so she must have it and, frankly, I need it too. If I send any gifts or messages, it will create anxiety for me, and could be regarded as 'stalker'ish'. It is simpler and cheaper for me to post to the UK and then it's not my problem any more. I think it's a cheek not to offer to pay the cost and to try to 'guilt trip' me, but that's just how they are.

I have to say that I don't understand all this blocking of numbers. What if there were an emergency and I needed to contact her? Has she gone from loving me to not even wanting to know whether I'm alive or dead, in the space of a few days? At least I have her address, I suppose, or could contact LB's DPs, but if DH had been diagnosed two years earlier, he might have died before she found out. Anyway, it is what it is.

Netaporter - We updated our English wills after DH's diagnosis and told the solicitor who drafted them that we had property in France. It was only when I read an article in a Sunday paper that I realised that there might be a problem, so we took advice from a French property specialist here in the UK. She drafted amendments to the wills, so that they should pass under English law, as this is where we live/are nationals etc. My understanding is that it would only be a minor, dependant, ex spouse, or potentially an adult child who is suffering from financial hardship, who could bring a claim in France. However, most purchasers don't want to run the risk of buying without an assurance that there won't be any claims from disappointed beneficiaries.

So, just to be clear, DD1 does not have an entitlement to any share but, knowing LB, he will be pouring the poison into DD1's ear, saying that I am trying to cheat her out of money which is rightfully hers. And she would believe him and all trust between us would be destroyed, forever. LB is clever, he will not be fobbed off by a lawyer's letter and his eye, as ever, will be on the main chance for more free money. I remember when DH's aunt was hardly cold in her grave before they were harassing my lovely BIL, as executor, for the inheritance. I was so embarrassed, but he dealt with it as quickly as he could, wished them much happiness in their new home etc.

In fact, I have recently reviewed my emails with the lawyers and said to them, in terms, that I don't trust my SIL etc, as I feared that there could be trouble further along the road, especially when it became clear that DH's illness was terminal. It was just another thing to worry about during what was an absolutely dreadful time. I think that is one of the reasons I have been putting off dealing with it for so long. I don't ski any longer and visiting the chalet would just be too painful. I would rather just sell up and use the money over here, and I don't want DD2 and DD3 to have the problems of selling it

I don't actually mind giving DD1 her 'share' but, if I do, I would want to do it in a generous way, and to honour DH. But LB will suck the joy out of it, like he does with everything. Part of his 'ownership' and control of DD includes not wanting her to have gifts from anyone else - or, I should say anyone, since he never gives her anything. He just wants money, which goes straight into his bank account. However, I would want any early inheritance ring fenced for DD1 and the DGC, and I know that this would cause trouble between them and between them and me, and contaminate the whole thing. He would insist that she is only getting what she is entitled to. It will become another pAnd it's horrible to have to deal with all this when I am still grieving. It's over two years now, but it's still so raw.

Billybagpuss - yes, we owned half each, but whereas the English properties were owned as joint tenants, where the survivor inherits automatically on death, the purchase of the French property was purchased as tenants in common, which is how the notaire drew it up, as it's far more common in France. We didn't think about it at the time. It was 20 years ago now.

I do have a notaire who was instructed a long time ago. He is English and dual qualified and generally excellent, but his wife has terminal cancer, so he is struggling at present and not really dealing with it. However, he did speak to me a couple of weeks ago and wants to go down the route of asking the DDs to sign off on the letters. He said he would normally email me for me to forward on and then speak to them individually. In fact, he even suggested doing it the other way round and speaking to them first - I can just imagine LB's reaction! He also mentioned that a French marriage contract would have avoided all of these problems, so I am wondering why this was not suggested by the lawyers at the time.

tribpot - I know you are right and I need to get my act together. I also plan to get POAs in place and my pensions written in trust, together with my life policy, so they fall outside the estate. I just want it all done and dusted, so I can try to get on with my life. There has been so much stuff to deal with.

Thanks for listening! I need to try to get back 'on form', as I have a few social events coming up over the next few days, including DH's sister and her family coming to visit, and we will be joined by DD2 and her boyfriend. My DN is also bringing her boyfriend, so hopefully it will be a lovely family get together. Actually, there is no 'hopefully' about it. My SIL, like my BIL, is lovely and like a sister to me. It will be great. 😀

Cavagirl · 30/12/2022 08:34

I don't know about another therapist. I think once the stuff has been posted, there won't be any contact for a long time, so there won't be anything to talk about. I just need to get on with my life, as best I can.

Two questions for you, Chopin. What do you think therapy is for, generally?
How are your current counselling sessions useful to you?

RandomMess · 30/12/2022 08:51

It's good that you have lovely family time coming up.

I think regarding the French house let LB take you to court in France - he won't want to spend the money on that. Also if/when DD1 raises the French house issue you can explain that you and her Dad made the will after his diagnosis and his express wishes were for you to inherit all monies first, so to honour him please just crack on and sign it. She isn't against emotional manipulation and in this case you would be stating the truth.

A therapist very experienced in toxic relationships sounds very much in order tbh.

Flowers
pifflesticks · 30/12/2022 09:04

Oh Chopin, the only way to get out of the cycle is to stop playing the game. Send the stuff off in a box and let your daughter pay any tax on it. Don't include anything else and for goodness sake stop trying to ring her. Any interaction you have will just open up another round of 'let's give mum a good kicking'. Nothing will change unless you take yourself out of the game. You need to get some space from all this crap and heal from it.

ChopinandChampagne · 30/12/2022 09:18

Cavagirl - I consulted my current therapist for bereavement therapy, to help me cope with the loss of DH.

RandomMess - that's a good strategy. If the lawyer says that's what DH expressly wanted, she will look bad if she goes against it, and it would confirm my recently expressed and unpopular view that most issues have been about money and gifts.

pifflesticks - you are right. I will start packing the boxes today!

Angelswithflirtyfaces · 30/12/2022 09:21

Chopin your 8.26am post -
You are still laying any potential fall out and money grabbing of the French property towards LB?
Has it still not occurred to you that DD1 is just as complicit in grabbing.
I know its easier to blame the situation on him but she has shown you again and again her own agenda.
I know its painful but you have to start facing the reality of this awful situation.
I mean that kindly.

Cavagirl · 30/12/2022 09:33

I consulted my current therapist for bereavement therapy, to help me cope with the loss of DH.

I know, I've been on your threads (multiple names!)
My question on what you believe is the general purpose of therapy was because your earlier post seemed to imply as long as there was nothing at present to deal with, with DD, any situation to navigate, therapy wouldn't serve any purpose for you.
So many posters are recommending it because the purpose of therapy in this instance is not to aid you navigating an existing situation. It will be to ultimately come to terms with your relationship with DD, LB, and the DGC (and probably the wider family), understand better your role in it - and probably some strategies for future theoretical situations - and, with that acceptance, ultimately feel more at peace, hopefully.
Keeping on keeping on until she clicks her fingers again hasn't worked for the last years because when a new situation has arisen you've behaved in similar, familiar ways (understandably) and have ended up just as miserable as before. So that isn't really a long term strategy.
That's why everyone is suggesting to get a (specialised) therapist.

FerretInAFrock · 30/12/2022 09:41

Yes, just pack the stuff in boxes and send them to LBPs.

Then when DD1 brings up about the presents in a hurt “…you disrespected LB, my children had cold feet as their slippers were delayed..you didn’t do/pay for XYZ” you can say “I sent them on to LBPs as per your wishes”

ChopinandChampagne · 30/12/2022 10:35

Boxes packed, all 15kg worth! Can arrange pick up Tuesday for delivery Thursday for £23, so not too bad at all!😁

ChopinandChampagne · 30/12/2022 10:39

In fact, I could have had them delivered to Ireland for £58.67, but it would have cost me £140 to take two suitcases return, plus I'm not sure I could have coped with it. Will arrange pick up for Tuesday, problem sorted.

I already feel lighter! I'm not sure how happy LB's DP will be to receive them though!

Trampoline11 · 30/12/2022 10:43

Well done Chopin! Glad you feel lighter. That's lovely to hear. (Don't change anything will you by next week?!)

ChopinandChampagne · 30/12/2022 10:43

And I may seem to keep doing the same thing over and over, but this thread has really helped me focus. DD1 is not a very kind human being in some respects. I can see that now, but I accept that I have been in denial for some time.

Thank you! Daffodil

Suzysuz · 30/12/2022 10:45

Bargain £23 for the peace and just to be rid of it all!

Re the French property, I would be tempted if possible:
-let solicitor handle ALL comms to them

  • I don't think DD1/LB will sign anything unless there is a clear motivation
  • I wouldn’t trust DD1 to honour DH’s wishes, you will be painted as having made it up / fake news / they’re isolated and into their conspiracy theories I recall?
  • so it will be about money, no surprise there
  • I like the earlier suggestion of offering her what is actually her value share straight upon sale (whether you mention you will deduct this from overall inheritance is up to you, I just wouldn’t even open that topic as, actually, it’s nothing to do with them and will be clearly noted in your will), OR it goes in pot for overall shared inheritance - all based on them signing the doc and can seek own legal advice
  • They will opt for money now
burnoutbabe · 30/12/2022 11:00

if the french place can be let out, i'd do that and re-assess in 5 years.

If the cash is needed for you NOW, then i'd look to remortage it and get cash that way.

anyway to avoid having them having to sign anything,.

Or ask what insurance you can get against any dependent claim

ChopinandChampagne · 30/12/2022 11:01

Trampoline11 - I won't change my mind and I have blocked her. I have decided that I deserve a good new year!

Also, it would be just like her to pull a stunt such as telling me to keep all of the Christmas presents which I have bought and lovingly wrapped for the children, thereby inflicting maximum hurt and leaving me with hundreds of pounds of unwanted things, which I would have to unwrap in order to return or gift.

In fact, I think I will also block the DPs temporarily for the same reason, so she can't send any spiteful messages via them. I can always say later it was done in error and the parcels will be halfway up the M1 by then! 😂

ChopinandChampagne · 30/12/2022 11:22

Also, I am going to have two of those Coptic crosses made into a pair of earrings and wear the third on a gold chain. They will make a lovely set. A Christmas present to me, which will remind me of both a wonderful holiday and my adorable DGC, whether or not I see them for a while!

Trampoline11 · 30/12/2022 11:36

I can feel a wonderful, free 2023 coming for you Chopin. I know I'm a stranger but I am rooting (sp?) for you. You sound so strong and dare I say, happy.

Keep going lovely lady.

EarringsandLipstick · 30/12/2022 11:56

Oh Chopin I know you've had a sleepless night. But already I can see his much stronger and determined you are - your posts sound so different.

You are clear, and you have a course of action.

Of course it's not easy, it's extremely painful.

But I think the exhaustion you were experiencing as you tried to navigate the minefield of your relationship with DD1 was beginning to make you ill. Without all that energy being wasted, you'll have more opportunities to make further good decisions to allow you live the best life you can.

2023 is looking much brighter for you 🌷🌻

Glindara · 30/12/2022 11:56

I am glad that you have taken decisive steps with the gifts and blocking for the next week so that you concentrate on your extended family visiting. It must be a relief to have the gifts sorted and not having that hanging over you. Immerse yourself fully with your SIL and DNs as this will be a lovely emotional connection with your DH - and I hope that there will be some laugher in the memories amongst the tears.

With the French property - I would look at getting additional shit hot legal support to deal with getting them to sign. There will be various strategies to approach and various layers of contingencies that can be deployed to “negotiate”.

It’s not unusual for someone to be obstructive but LB/DD1 are not above the brains of a shit hot city firm who have deal with these types day in day out. Let them devise a strategy and deal with them directly.

We had to deal with something similar in my family and it was actually excruciating (although ultimately satisfying) watching a family member get done up like a kipper (very quickly) just because they were so belligerent, entitled, greedy and obstructive. It takes a certain skill set to achieve this and the guy you have at the moment won’t cut it for this part. It’s a different issue / task. Get the big guns in to drop a couple of letters - it won’t cost £100k.

LadyEloise1 · 30/12/2022 12:22

@ChopinandChampagne you have revealed far more of DD1s personality on this thread ( how she treated you, her dying father, her "best" friend, her sister, her dgf - throwing a yogurt pot at him, her uncle grieving for his brother and pushing for the money ) and tbh she now appears not as the poor little wifey being totally controlled by an abusive man but comes across as an entitled little madam.
I'm sorry to say as I know how much you love her.

Take a break from her.
You need it.

billy1966 · 30/12/2022 12:23

ChopinandChampagne · 30/12/2022 10:43

And I may seem to keep doing the same thing over and over, but this thread has really helped me focus. DD1 is not a very kind human being in some respects. I can see that now, but I accept that I have been in denial for some time.

Thank you! Daffodil

Good for you.

The examples of her unkind behaviour are very stark.

It really does cement the positions of her sisters and friends.

Time and maturity has given them a perspective of wanting to protect themselves, and who can criticise them their boundaries.

Ordering food that you know your sibling won't want to eat, is such a deliberate act of premeditated provocation to cause upset, that these type of incidents can become the building blocks of estrangement.

One thing to perhaps also reflect on in the triangulation that has been going on, is whilst you hope for DD1 to pull away from the malevolent force LB is in her life because of how you see him, we have been trying to encourage you to do the same with DD1.

It is not easy to pull away and see the birds from the trees.

Such is the behaviour that you have described and how your daughter hurts those around her with impunity, whilst refusing to own it, goodness knows what lies she has told herself and LB over the years.

You have done the right thing in packing those things up and sending them on to his family.

I think if you are brave enough to take an extended break from this, with some good therapy to help you, you WILL make sense of this.

The hurt will take time to dull, but, and I do mean this with the greatest of respect to you, from how you describe your daughter and her behaviour over the years, there was always going to be drama, upset and possibly an unsuitable partner in her future, that yourselfand your darling husband were always going to have to navigate.

Your husband and yourself modelled a loving respectful relationship and she was reared with kindness and privilege.

Her nature is her nature, and nurture can never fully overcome that.

She is your first and they are sometimes a bit of an experiment to parents and we do take how they turn out as a personal indictment of us.

However, we are at our best as parents if we see them with a clear eye and force ourselves to be honest as to who they are, and not what we wish them to be.

I write this to you because I have to remind myself of it with my own eldest at times.

We cannot save them from themselves and we cannot set ourselves on fire at the alter of their choices.

You love her dearly, but you can do that by modelling a strong boundaried woman who will not be a manipulated emotional punching ground for your child.

Keep posting your thoughts, as I think when you do that you can put a trouble feeling down and leave it, knowing it is there for you to tackle again later when you wish.

Wishing you well.

Lunde · 30/12/2022 12:24

@ChopinandChampagne
"Billybagpuss - yes, we owned half each, but whereas the English properties were owned as joint tenants, where the survivor inherits automatically on death, the purchase of the French property was purchased as tenants in common, which is how the notaire drew it up, as it's far more common in France. We didn't think about it at the time. It was 20 years ago now."

So your DD1 would be entitled to 12.5% (25% of your DH's 50% share) of the property (minus legal and selling costs).

If you do decide to pay them I would insist that it must be paid into a bank account with her name on. If she chooses to put it into LBs account subsequently - well that it her choice

pifflesticks · 30/12/2022 12:32

Fantastic. What a superstar getting that done. We are all cheering for you here.

Lilliflip · 30/12/2022 12:34

LadyEloise1 · 30/12/2022 12:22

@ChopinandChampagne you have revealed far more of DD1s personality on this thread ( how she treated you, her dying father, her "best" friend, her sister, her dgf - throwing a yogurt pot at him, her uncle grieving for his brother and pushing for the money ) and tbh she now appears not as the poor little wifey being totally controlled by an abusive man but comes across as an entitled little madam.
I'm sorry to say as I know how much you love her.

Take a break from her.
You need it.

Yes to all of this. It’s hard when those we love hurt us but she sounds like she has a long track record of deeply unpleasant/ hurtful behaviour. @LadyEloise1 is right, you definitely need a break from all the manipulation to get yourself back on track.

LadyEloise1 · 30/12/2022 12:42

Another great post from @billy1966. I am
in awe of some of the posters on this thread with their wise words and their eloquence.

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