Non-parents dating parents

[WhiteChocMocha]

I don't really need advice as not much can be done, but maybe hear from someone who's been there and how they got through. Basically, due to schedules, me and my SO just don't get a lot of time together.

Seeing a single dad with a demanding job and primary age DC - he has 50/50 childcare but in reality does more like 60%. He's a very involved parent and has proper quality time with DC, which is something I really like about him. We both have full-on jobs - he works looong days and I'm away a lot with mine.

We aren't out to his DC and won't be for a while. Maybe I'm old-fashioned but I don't think it's fair to come into a child's life without having decided there's a long-term future. For me, I can't decide that before having been with someone 1-2 years. His view is similar, we have talked about it openly.

With all that and other life commitments as well, we get max 2 mornings a week when we can potentially see each other. However, if I'm away for the week, or his DC is ill, or anything else, that week's out - and it happens quite often.

We're really happy when we're together, just smiling non-stop and talk every day, I've never felt so supported by a guy and he really cares about my mundane daily life. I really fancy him and want to see this out, we've known each other a while too.

It's just that with current schedules and life events, we've recently been seeing each other every 3 weeks. I've just found out that I won't see him for another 2 weeks now as I'm working away and... I'm just devastated, I miss him so much in between.

Inevitably because I'm not a parent, even when I stay busy etc, I have more time in my hands to miss him. When he's had a long day and he tells me about how he's feeling, I just wish I could be by his side. It's tough.

I'm guessing it's a common issue for parents that work full-time, probably even more so if both people have little ones. How have you gotten through those initial months/ years of dating when DCs and work have to come first and making time for a relationship is a big challenge?

Just for context, a couple of my friends have gone 'come on, you can't both be so busy, if you really want to see each other you'll find time'.

I've actually taken the diary out and shown what our weeks look like, and they realise there actually literally isn't any time. I'd love a weekend away with him or even see him at night and not in the day, but we'd have to both book holidays to do that as we both work unusual hours and a lot of weekends. Add to that living in different cities, though thankfully in the same region.

I’d look for someone else.
If you’re seeing him on average once every 3 weeks for a morning, that’s 17 times a year.
If you want to see him for 2 years before deciding if he’s the one for you, that’s 34 meets. That’s really not long to decide if you want to spend the rest of your life with him, meet the kids etc, but it’s taken a heck of a long time to get there.

There are more available men out there…….

I think this is the reason why so many rush in to introducing kids, and I respect you for not doing that, you're making a good choice even though it's the hard one.

You are probably at a point where you need to decide if despite the man being what you want, is the situation? Do you want to continue in this way? Can you actually decide if you want to be with his long term when you're only seeing him once or twice a month? That isn't remotely reflective of what life will be like spending significant amount of times with him.

I think that's where my brain would be right now.

This is exactly why people often end up introducing a new partner to dc a bit earlier than you would ideally, because it's very difficult to have a relationship if you work full time and have younger dc who can't be left home alone.

On MN you'd be criticised by some for even dating until your dc are 18 (usually those who are married and have no idea) but it's normal and normal to meet dc once you're serious, I would say at least six months in.

mumsnet loves to say wait a year but realistically it’s very tricky for the reasons you say but I also think it doesn’t allow you to create a relationship that is based on what the reality of your lives together are in the real world; what I mean by that is that after two years it will be very tricky to move from your relationship only being about you two to it then being about his child and incorporating co-parenting and an ex. You’ll get used to it how it is being quite protected from that perspective and his children will also be used to it being like that.
Obviously I’m not saying rush into anything but after 6 months I think you should know if something is going to be long term enough to meet children. Until then you just have to make the time as much as possible is my experience and expect him to make what time he can

I am a non-parent now living with a parent and I don't think our relationship would have survived on max 2 mornings a week. I also don't think I would have been willing to wait for 2 years to decide whether or not we had a future together.

To be honest I don't think it sounds like he has time for a relationship right now. My advice is not to let your needs and wants get sidelined just because he has children. You might be able to overlook it now but you will end up getting resentful and you can't realistic build a serious relationship with 1 or 2 mornings a week with frequent gaps in contact/

If he can't find time to be a good father to his children and a good partner to you then he isn't available for a relationship.

Yes I completely agree with your first point. We have some common friends that have introduced kids to new partner within a few months. My close friend has now been with someone about 6 months and met the kids. After such a short time, you don't really know the person yourself and are still in the honeymoon stage where they only show their best side. But I'm also pleased to see our friends be happy and in love.

I've known the guy a while and I know this has legs. I've also spent longer periods of time with him before we started dating, we know each other well and we're both quite sold on each other. We've discussed this previously and had a period where we weren't seeing each other at all as it was too emotionally challenging in between, but we quite quickly decided we wanted to keep trying (he instigated).

So I'm not looking to make any big decision, I want to see this out... It's just tough right now 😌

"To be honest I don't think he has time for a relationship right now"

Yes, you're right. Or maybe he would, with a woman that's available 24/7 😂But I am quite busy too.

We have talked about it. Basically if it wasn't for me already existing, he wouldn't be looking to date right now, as he thinks he wouldn't be able to offer what most people want from a partner.

However, we just got to a point where we obviously had feelings for one another and were emotionally close. So it was either walking away from all that or giving it a try, somehow.

How did you navigate finding time/ at what point did you decide you needed to blend your lives in order to make it as a couple?

Can't you spend more time together in the 40-50% of the time he's not go his dc if that's just doing normal stuff together rather than dating stuff?

People managed to have relationships with dc full time (my dd has never stayed overnight with my exH) and jobs, you have to prioritise the relationship and spend time together in every day life, so going to the supermarket or just being in the same house while you're doing housework, rather than going on dates.

Being in a relationship where you don't live together is always a time challenge, if I'm at DPs house for the evening I'm not at my house where I could be putting in a load of washing for example.

You might have to prioritise this relationship over some of the other things you're both doing, presumably hobbies, friends etc. are taking up time as well as his dc.

You've both got your heads screwed on haven't you.

Just keep in mind that, you could spend five, six, seven years seeing each other every 3 weeks but nothing will show what it will be like to spend a lot of time together with his kids too. You can't possibly know. You're doing the right thing by the kids being as certain as possible before you introduce, but there really is a limit.

For us it was easier once DP had met my dd and could come to my house (about six/seven months in) but she was secondary school age and old enough to stay home, so a different situation to younger dc.

Do you want to have children yourself op @WhiteChocMocha ? Is this something that's important to you? Do you see yourself cohabitating together (how would that work)?

Although I agree that it's better not to meet the kids until you are sure about the partner; meeting the kids may actually change your mind about the partnership so you are potentially wasting the next couple of years of your life getting to know someone when ultimately it's not going to work out. Add in your busy schedules, it's going to take you a long time to get to know this man. A (very) part-time relationship probably suits him as his kids are his priority but does it suit you?

I couldn't deal with that little contact. Children or no children, if a relationship is important you do find ways to be together and personally I wouldn't want to dedicate a year or more to a relationship without seeing if the dynamic of being around the children works. But I didn't want a texting buddy or someone to call, I wanted a proper relationship.

I have children but they are adults

@MrsMontyD yes that's a good idea. I literally wouldn't mind hanging out at his while he's doing laundry if that means we can spend Monday morning together.

I do more hobbies/ friends to stay busy when I'm not working. He spends his available time with me, but for sure errands etc take time away from that and we could get more time together if we did do the 'boring stuff' together.

@WhiteChocMocha

I can assure you that I knew my dp very well before 6 months (covid helped, nothing like being in lockdown 24/7! )

It's not a calendar thing it's number of hours spent, 6 months should be lots of time though, I knew after a couple of dates - if you don't feel that way perhaps it's because he's not right for you

How old are you and do you want children of your own?

I’m not sure what the big deal is in introducing the children now it’s been six months. Moving in together after a fortnight, having them call you mummy, putting you in a parent role, doing this over and over with a succession of new women - obviously bad. Simply having the children aware that dad has a girlfriend, it would be nice for you to get to know each other, and you might join them all sometimes for dinner or a day trip, completely fine. It’s the former that damages children because of the turmoil and instability, not the latter.

What you have now isn’t a relationship. You’ll end up two years down the line and still having no idea whether you’re really compatible because the brief grabbed moments a couple of times a month at most don’t replace actually developing a bond with somebody through sharing loves and experiences. If there’s no likelihood this is going to change for years, I’d throw this man back and find somebody with less baggage and more time.

There's also the danger that you're in a bit of a Romeo and Juliet mode are moment (not unlike people having an affair) snatching moments together behind the DCs backs, you need to experience real life together.

I don't see any issue with meeting his dc and slowly introducing you into their lives, your boyfriend will just have to accept that if this relationship doesn't work out he's going to have to wait before being able to introduce anyone else, serial girlfriends isn't good.

How did you navigate finding time/ at what point did you decide you needed to blend your lives in order to make it as a couple?

Well it was made slightly easier as I knew him vaguely before we dated as we had mutual friends so I actually met the kids at a BBQ before we dated and we had got on really well.

When the children were younger he would go and see them after dinner to put them to bed sometimes in the week so we would meet afterwards. I started seeing them occasionally in group settings after about 6 months of dating and we built it up slowly. Building from sometimes being there for dinner on contact time to spending weekends with them.

I don't actually think meeting children as a good mate of their dads is particularly harmful. I think suddenly appearing after 2 years, already in a serious relationship where you are thinking of things like moving in together would be more disruptful.

We didn't move in together until we are relaxed with each other and had build a natural relationship which suited me as I was in no hurry to move in with him. I lived with my ex and didn't want to go through breaking up with a live in partner again so took my time.

@passport123 @zonky I'm mid 30s. I'm not going to have biological children of my own - he knows this.

From that point of view I'm not in a rush to settle down etc, I just want a really great guy that we can have a nice relationship with, not just anyone. We talk about his DC a lot, I am interested and he shares, both the good and more challenging bits. In the long-run I do see us living together and actually really like the idea of being there for both him and DC - however, I prefer to live in the present for now and not get invested in a future life that may or may not happen.

What is his relationship like with his ex? Do you ever feel like second best as his priority are clearly his children (as they should be)?

@gogohmm 'I knew after a couple of dates - if you don't feel that way perhaps it's because he's not right for you'

I kind of know. I wouldn't use up this amount of headspace and make big compromises on a guy I'm not sure about, no chance. Meeting guys generally isn't an issue for me but honestly no other guy makes me feel like he does, I regularly tell myself to 'get a grip' when I feel like I do today and miss him this much.

Honestly for the long-term we are thinking more about some practical aspects. I've lived quite an independent life up to now, in the sense that nobody depended on my decisions, I could pursue my career etc. I do feel like I'm done with that life now but I just want to take some time to let the dust settle etc. I wouldn't forgive myself if I started playing happy families with him and DC without having realised how big a change it was.

Maybe I'm making too big of a deal of starting to build a relationship with DC but for me it is a big deal. We both have quite a cautious attitude to family-related things and perhaps a bit prone to overthinking but that's just how we both are.

I'm dating a man with no kids and I have 3 full time. He already knew my kids as we were friends (and had previously dated as teenagers prior to me meeting their dad). I let him be around them relatively early as a friend. I know mumsnet is against it but I'd known the man 17 years, seemed a bit silly to wait. Plus my children liking him was my priority. Id say meet the children as a friend and build it up, you can't carry on only seeing him once or twice a month.

He'll have you be a skivvy to his children in no time. Men are much more prone to move a woman in sooner as they need 'help' with the home, and if you're keen, even better!