Things have come to a head... 'friend' being OTT and flirting with boyfriend

[IDontWantToGoToSchoolToday]

Yes, I have posted about this a couple of times previously. I'm feeling really shit at the moment so I'd appreciate neutral amd supportive comments rather than critical ones. Thanks.

In a nutshell, I'm in a social/hobby group of a dozen or so people. Mostly coupled up. I started seeing someone within the group and one of the 20yrs+ married women started flirting with my boyfriend. It became so OTT that it was embarrassing - other people noticed and were commenting. I stopped engaging with her other than when essential. I didn't ignore her if she spoke to me but I started avoiding being in that situation.

I spoke with my boyfriend about it. People had also commented to him about it. He didn't want to upset her by saying anything directly, even something as simple and non confrontational as, "Don't do that," and decided to just avoid her as I was/not seek out her company. He told me that he didn't know why she was doing it (but felt it was more to do with me than him as, when we'd first met, she told she was jealous of me). He said he found it weird and uncomfortable.

Anyway, it came to a bit of a head at the end of July when she asked me directly what the matter was. So I told her. I was cross about being the one who had to say something because it was nothing to do with me per se and I shouldn't have been the one who had to deal with it. She apologised to me and to him and no more was said. He didn't reply to her apology but it was definitely worded in such as way that it was intended to elicit reassurance on his part. He didn't give it.

We didn't meet up for the hobby over the summer so didn't see her again until a few weeks ago.

The first time, she ignored me, the second time she was friendly. I decided that, for the sake of the group, and so as not to be 'immature' as was suggested by some on here, that I would be amicable for everyone's sake.

However, she seemed to take this as a green light that everything was now OK, 6 weeks had passed and now it's business as usual. She hasn't been as bad and I wouldn't really describe her behaviour as flirting anymore bit she is still very tactile with him and he is now, seemingly, OK with it. I am not. I just feel I've been trampled over.

I feel betrayed by her as a friend. I feel betrayed that he has seemingly put it all behind him and he now seeks put her company for chats again. I'm sure others won't see a problem with that.

But it untenable for me. He and I had a long chat a couple of weeks ago and I said that I was strongly considering leaving the hobby over it because it was just unpleasant for me all the time - I feel disrespected and unvalued. He also told me in this conversation that he knew I would likely walk away from the relationship if I did. He was right.

The next time we were all together, and knowing this, he spent much of the evening chatting with her.

Afterwards, I told him that I would be leaving the hobby. He hasn't said anything about it either way. I have no idea what his thoughts are on it.

It's pretty much sounded the death knell for our relationship. I can't bear to be in the same room as either of them now.

He claims to have no interest in her and, by all accounts, he was in love with me for a while before we got together. He says he can't believe his luck. He tells me, and shows me, that he loves me. We spend all weekend together, we go out, he never behaves in a way that gives cause for concern other than this. He's overhauled my garden, cooks and does housework when he's here, treats me perfectly in every other respect. Talks about a future together and his actions, otherwise, seem to support this. But I just feel he doesn't respect me and has allowed the situation to continue despite knowing what the outcome will be.

I can't leave properly for another 3 weeks because we have a commitment to fulfill and I've agreed to do it. I'd be landing an awful lot of people in the shit if I pulled out now. But it's making me feel dreadful.

He says he has no interest in her but doesn't like to upset people and sees me leaving as choice rather than something he has caused/allowed to happen.

But I feel heartbroken and utterly bereft that I just don't seem to matter. I feel he has chosen being friendly with someone he claims to not even like all that much over an entire life with me.

Yet, I haven't told him to do anything 🤷🏻‍♀️

I set a boundary which he didn't respect, and he was within his rights not to, so I am walking away.

I don't know why some people have such a problem with that.

I am quite obviously not your boyfriend, but from the things you have described, I can see certain similarities between him and I. While I can't speak for him, this is how I see this situation were it me...

I am not conflict avoidant, however, I typically do not engage in conflict or confrontation based on principle. I look at what the end goal is, and have to see some way that a confrontation will help achieve that goal. If I do not see a confrontation accomplishing anything, then I typically won't engage, especially if I see conflict further fanning the situation.

If I were in this situation as your boyfriend, my thoughts would be along the lines of this womans behaviour is making you feel uncomfortable and anxious. On the one hand confronting may reassure you in the moment, but will likely not assuage your feelings in any meaningful long term way because the woman will continue and likely escalate her behaviour. The womans behaviour is the root of the issue, and it would feel to me as if I was somehow expected to make her change, which all the confrontations in the world won't accomplish.

The woman stopping the behaviour is the only way this fully resolves allowing both the relationship to continue, and also being able to stay in the group.

I would likely struggle with understanding your feelings in the matter because I would have been doing everything right as far as helping you feel secure in our relationship, and would see the situation with this woman as annoying yes, but knowing I could not change her, knowing she was not a threat to the relationship, knowing I had tried to help you understand she was not a threat, that you know how she is with men in general, how others view her

You can say 'can't you see you're embarassing him and he's too polite to say anything?' if you want to step it up a notch

I did say almost those exact words to her when I spoke to her.

Along with, "he hoped that just avoiding and ignoring you would send assuage but it clearly didn't"

In her apology to him, she quote me directly. She obviously didn't believe me and thought that he'd reassure her.

He went down the no response is a response route which I think is fair enough.

However would you try and avoid singling them out for private one on one chats (rather than being cordial but keeping things at a group level)
Also avoid standing there with your arms around her? Most people would treat and avoid that one and it's fairly easy to do.

How important is she to this group? Is she particularly talented or good at getting people involved / drumming up support or something etc? Because it seems to me she’s tolerated even though she annoys a lot of people and there has to be a reason for that surely? If it’s that then is it possible he is more concerned about keeping her in the group for what she can offer in the way of skills or whatever else? And that if this group is partly his baby as it were, that takes priority - even over both his and yours discomfort?

You may say that you haven't told him to do anything but by setting your boundaries and expecting him to comply you really are. Boundaries are fine they can be personal, things you won't do or mutual things neither will do. You've unilaterally set a boundary that you want him to adhere to, nor a mutual boundary and not his boundary, yours. Both of you are within your rights to walk, you for him behaving in a way you find unacceptable and him because he doesn't want you telling him who he can talk to. Today its this lady from your group who will it be next.

But surely if that were the case it would only be the lady from the next group because yet again he still isn't exercising any boundaries?

And as the OP says he hasn't actually done anything other than speak to someone she doesn't want him associating with.

That's fine if you want to be in a relationship where your being told who you can talk to. It boils down to the other lady is being inappropriate and her partner doesn't care because at the end of the evening he's still going home with OP.

OP I totally understand why you feel the way you do and that it's about his inaction/inability to listen to what you've said and do something about it.

But I think this is a bit vague:
"A couple of weeks ago, I told him I'm leaving the hobby after the next commitment. I said that he was the only thing keeping me there and he said is that because I'd have to walk away from all of it - including him - when I've left. I said yes.

He said it didn't have to mean the end of the relationship. I said, given the reasons I'd be leaving, it did."

Have you explicitly said something like "I have told you that her behaviour is an issue. I need you to tell her to stop. If you can't/won't, let me know" or similar. I know that sounds like an ultimatum so maybe it could be worded better but ultimately sometimes you have to make what you need crystal clear. It may seem obvious to you what action he needs to take but it might not be obvious to him. I say this as someone in a 16 year relationship where I have had to be incredibly directive on a couple of occasions. I found both times that while my husband understood and agreed with my concerns he genuinely didn't realise the action I felt he should obviously take as a result. Once it was a similar situation to yours.

I just think it's worth giving him the opportunity to know exactly what you mean/want to see and seeing what he does with it. If you have to stay another couple of weeks that'd give you the chance to see if he does.

I think you're giving up way too easily. In fact, you are concentrating far more on what you think he should be doing, than what YOU should be doing. She puts her arm round his waist, you go up and nudge her off and take her place. You get tactile with him in front of her. Why on earth are you willing to lose him and your hubby for this woman? You are playing right into her hands. It sounds like your boyfriend wants to keep you but he's a typical useless bloke, and clumsy with it.

*hobby, not hubby.

He'd rather lose me than her is the bottom line. Or is, at least, how it feels.
Or maybe he is in a damned if he does and damned if he doesn't situation. The guy literally can't do anything else.

I told him the last time we spoke about it in July that if there was anything else at all that made me uncomfortable, I'd be leaving.
Yet even after this bombshell, you're still there, and now you've told him you're leaving him in 3 weeks

He allowed it to happen.
Seriously what are you going to get out of this? So you can stand back and smirk at her whilst he does your bidding and tells her off?

Why you're still blaming him I don't know. He cannot control her, or her behaviour, and I'd put good money on the fact it wouldn't change one bit, even if he did tell her quietly to back off.

You are literally the one with the problem with all this. Leave him right now if you're that unhappy. All sounds like something from the playground.

Oh believe me when you're assertive enough to make it crystal clear to someone that certain boundaries are absolute, you most definitely can change their behaviour. The problem here is that no clear attempt is even being made. That to me speaks volumes personally, either he's oblivious or on some level enjoying the attention. My other half would have made sure long before now in no uncertain terms that she needs to keep her hands to herself a back the fuck off, and she's not being asked. She's being told. Trust me, It would have stopped. People like this only disrespect your personal space if you allow it. Notice it was only one particular man last time, then only one particular man this time? Choosing her targets rather wisely isn't she? Because she knows exactly which ones won't put up with her shit, that's why.

Why not actually directly communicate this to him? ‘I will leave you if you do not do XYZ.’

Indeed all he needs to do is say loudly so anyone nearby can hear, just to make it obvious she's being told off, 'look idontwant says I shouldn't talk to you so back off'.

I only hope that other mumsnetters will be happy being told to curtail their relationships because their partner doesn't approve.

OP,

He has shown you who he has over an extended period of time.

You keep complaining and he keeps ignoring.

He likes you but he really isn't into you enough.

If he was, this would NOT be an issue.

You are bending over backwards for this group and displaying poor boundaries while at it.

You said the behaviour was not acceptable and have carried on for months.

Stop going to the hobby.
So what if it blows up.
Thats on HIM, you told him repeatedly.

I mean it kindly but you are now at fault for lack of follow through.

You are unhappy and will no longer attend.

Thats it.

"I told you, you ignored me. I will no longer atrend and feel uncomfortable".

Do not be guilted.

He chose to ignore your boundary, he can accept the consequence.

Stop talking about it.
Its over.

He chose himself, what is easiest for him.

Not you.

You deserve better.

Honestly I wouldn't have tolerated this for a minute.

He has.
He doesn't deserve you.

Take back control.
Leave the group.

Of course that is the case. And he would have been, and would be, free to walk away himself. I haven't suggested otherwise.

But what he can't do is trample over my boundary and expect me to just put up with it.

Tbh, I had committed to some stuff in July last year and felt I wanted to honour those commitments. There always nothing booked over the summer and no contact so no issues.

This thing in a few weeks was booked at the beginning of this year. Most of these things are booked in advance. It's unfair to cancel at short notice. There is nothing booked for the rest of the year.

Realistically? She is far less important than I am.

If she left, it wouldn't affect the group technically in any way. She wouldn't need to he replaced and it would function just as well without her. She is unable to attend all of the events/evenings for rehearsals and her absence makes no difference.

They would be unable to run without me or someone doing my role. It won't be easy for them to replace me, which is why I never miss a commitment and why, despite my feelings, I've been reluctant to leave previously.

If I can't attend the hobby, they tend not to do it because it doesn't work properly without me.

I would understand if her role was crucial but it's not. There are several people who do the same as her.

But she wouldn't leave without being asked and no one is going to ask her.

I suppose its the equivalent in an orchestra of the percussionist vs one of the violns. If one of the 2nd violins doesn't turn up, no one's really going to notice. If the LSO rocks up and the percussionist has texted on the way to say they're not coming, it's all going to fall apart a bit.

Except that I have curtailed a friendship since being with him because a male friend behaved inappropriately towards me and without respect for the fact I had a boyfriend. The first time, I did the, "Don't be a dick," thing. The second time - well that was in April and I haven't see him since.

I didn't need to tell anyone else. My boyfriend didn't even know. Hasn't even met him. I don't even someone to tell me how to behave because I have integrity.

If he dislikes it as much as he claims to, then he should be putting his own boundaries in place 🤷🏻‍♀️ For himself.

The fact he doesn't... Well that says enough.

I take it that you’re not going to answer this?

@IDontWantToGoToSchoolToday If you are so important to the activity and she isn't, and she's acted inappropriately and annoyingly quite a lot as far as several people are concerned, could she be booted from the group? As your OH is one of the founding members, he could probably make it so. Problem solved.

But from what you say, I'd say the feelings are somewhat mutual between them TBH. He even called her over to him unnecessarily, knowing what she's like and how you feel about her.

I've really struggled to answer this because it's a bit late really for any corrective measures to he taken. The damage has been done. There isn't really an X, Y, Z anymore.

Because kicking her out is a solution. It would mean I didn't have to tolerate her presence but would it address the fact i feel I can't trust him to protect the relationship? No.

Him leaving is a solution. It would.mean she no longer had access to him but would it address the fact I feel I can't trust him to protect the relationship? No.

Him publicly humiliating her so she gets the message loud and clear is a solution that would give me a sense of redress 🤷🏻‍♀️ but not one I'd want.

What action is there he could take now? There's nothing.

I've already said I'm leaving. I've all but left. I'm not engaging with them until the week before the October event.

I don't want to give ultimatums. I wanted him to respect me enough to do the right thing back when it was in full flow. But he didn't.

Now it just feels too late and the time has passed but the way I feel about it hasn't changed.

He knew that, if I left, I'd walk away from all of it. Cut it all out of my life like it was never there in the first place and that he would be part of that.

We spoke earlier this evening and he knows. But as for what an x,y,z would look like now? I have no idea.

If you are so important to the activity and she isn't, and she's acted inappropriately and annoyingly quite a lot as far as several people are concerned, could she be booted from the group?

Theoretically, yes. But there isn't anyone 'in charge' as such. They've never kicked anyone out. They know exactly why previous people have left and have had plenty of warnings/opportunity to address it. Whilst they think it's a bit unfortunate, they tend to just let it happen and then deal with clearing up the fall out.

OP - you are right. So sorry it has come to this.