Friend with very different moral code to me

[ImJustMadAboutSaffron]

Would you remain friends?

I've asked questions about this friend before and given lots of detail. I'm not going to do that now, even though much more has come to light, as people may just yell "you're over invested" or "you're a nosey parker" than give practical advice.

I've had about three get-togethers with her over the past month and have kept the chat light and social, and tried to deflect or grey rock if she brings up these topics. I've known her for 35 years, we met at nursery school.

Would you stay friends with someone who is completely at odds with your own moral standards (and those of the rest of your mates)? Or would you live and let live and just meet for chats, coffee etc and leave it there?

Plenty other people in the world to be friends with.

I think it depends on what it is. If I felt it was misguided, cognitive dissonance, ignorance etc then I might maintain a surface relationship.

If however they'd given serious thought and decided they're OK with things that I consider morally bankrupt then no. I don't hang out with people who think the poor are to blame for everything, racists, bigots, etc. It's those who stand silent that allow these things to continue. I've lost a few friends who can't get on with this and I'm OK with that. I just hope that it makes them consider what their vile opinions propagate.

Yep.

It depends, really. I have a friend who says bigoted things and conspiracy theories and sometimes I try to bring her back to earth, but I ignore the minor ones and keep her as a friend because she is really good fun and I love her company. If anyone else said those things I wouldn't excuse them and I'd ditch them as a friend.

No it isn't racism or being bigoted.

I generally try to separate people's views from how they are as a friend. I've got a friend with a totally different moral code to mine, she is deeply conservative and holds some views I find offensive. However she's one of the few people who always remembers a difficult anniversary for me, she invited me to stay at hers for a period when I was struggling, in those personal ways she's a really good friend and I value that. If you get something else from the friendship I don't think it should be a deal breaker - perhaps the problem is that you don't?

If you like this person can you just agree to disagree?
Or is she the type of person with whom you cant have reasoned debate? ie: her opinion is the only correct opinion?
If that is the case then bin her off. These sorts of people just get too draining in the end.
Then they wonder why they have no friends

It depends whether she is good company and whether you enjoy spending time with her when you both talk about or do other stuff.

I mean if you’re anti abortion and she’s pro abortion and she wants you to volunteer at Marie Stopes while you keep inviting her to Westboro-style protests, the friendship has no future. But if you’re both also into dogs and enjoy dog talk over coffee why not stay friends?

The current social system depends on everyone cutting each other out for not completely agreeing, the more people who can find common ground, the better the hope for humanity.

There was a reason politics and religion were taboo topics last century.

Depends what it is and how well you get on. Tbh I don't really have much time for casual friends with whom I can't have a proper conversation.

Depends if it's actually morals, or politics. If morals, then surely no.
Why would you want to be friends with someone who is behaving immorally?

If it's political- they see the world differently, would disagree with your definition of 'moral'- then that's perhaps better to keep the friendship and enjoy the challenge.

There might be a grey area for minor things- picking flowers that aren't in your garden, keeping a £5 you find on the floor type stuff, claiming your DC is only 3 to get a cheaper ticket, when they are actually 4. Depends how strongly you feel.

I would imagine it must be very difficult to maintain any deep friendship with her. After all, friends confide in one another and conversation should flow freely. If you are having to kerb your genuine responses to her then this isn't a deep friendship.

I think you could do the occasional coffee and chat, but make her aware that you have boundaries in place and that you refuse to discuss whatever it is she is doing.

Have you felt yourself trying to figure out why she is behaving in the way she is?

Also depends how judgmental they are about others. DM is very judgemental, but bends the rules for herself all the time. Winds me up terribly!

Is it that she's having an affair? I wouldn't end the friendship over something like this (love gossip) but I would if she was, say, a neo-nazi.

I am friends with people who bring me joy. I don't do automatic grandfather rights friendships. I cut people off if they no longer bring me joy, and expect them to do the same to me.

It's as simple as that.

Unless you tell us what it is it's impossible to give you an opinion!?

It's not about her views on social issues, but more what she's doing in her personal life that I find abhorrent and which are damaging. She knows this, and doesn't talk about it as she knows what I'll say, but occasionally things slip out. She also lies about it and contradicts herself, but to avoid being judgemental and nosey I try and avoid it if I can.

I've known her all my life, more or less and she was a fabulous friend when we were growing up. This has only been in the last 2 years.

Drip drip drip

I have a friend who has different political view to me. We just don’t talk politics and she’s a good friend to me. We are both pretty tolerant though, might not work for you if you’re not.

If her 'moral code' is something that impacts her behaviour I think it's likely to be difficult to remain friends without being dragged in to something that you're not comfortable with. Years ago I had a friend who repeatedly cheated on her partner and seemed to get a kick out of being with married men. For a while we just agreed to disagree on the subject but it became impossible not to feel involved as she would tell her partner she was with me (when she was with another man), expected me to 'cover for her' if people asked awkward questions etc. On one occasion she came on a girls weekend away but unbeknown to any of the others arranged with a married colleague (with a pregnant wife at home) for him and his friends to be at the same hotel so that they could be together without raising alarm bells with their partners. That was too much for me and after a rather heated argument we had to stop being friends. To this day she still considers herself the wronged party and me nosy and judgemental. She had know from the start that I did not agree with cheating but just saw it as a bit of harmless fun (she never had any intention of leaving her partner for any of the other men). Her perspective was that she didn't expect me to do the same, just to tell the odd 'white lie' (her words) to support a friend.

If it's something she has free choice about, then you can make clear by your actions that it's unacceptable- cool the friendship.

If it's something she may be feeling pressured in to (trapped by an abusive relationship for example) then she needs support to change things.

If it puts you in a compromised position (she's having an affair and you are keeping her secrets) then it's not acceptable and you need to back off.

Yes, I would stay friends. None of us is perfect and most people are doing the best they can. I have friends who have different approaches to vegetarianism, religion, politics, different tastes in music, interests I don't share, etc. We respect each other's right to a different opinion. I don't think life is about hanging out only with people who are just like you.

Last time I did that I was ripped to shreds. But I will.

In a nutshell - she's been having talking telephone therapy for anxiety and depression but doesn't seem to be improving. She's due to start that again.

However she is spending lots of time with men on line, some married, discussing their wives with them, talking like a dominatrix, sending naked photographs and lots of other sex chat. My thoughts were she is prioritising this over her mental health and making it worse. Also she's getting mixed up with men whose wives we would tell to LTB. I hate it all, and have pulled back from that because of my annoyance, disgust and frustration at her behaviour.

Otherwise she's good company and an old friend with a lot of history.

I had a friend who was actively / happily cheating on her partner, thought it was great to gossip about it and share the details with the group. We all found it gross, no one speaks to her any more. Last we heard, she found out HE was sending sexy texts to a neighbour, she hit the roof and asked for a divorce, playing the terribly hurt wife whilst completely leaving out the part where she had been shagging around for 3 years. One of the group sent him an email detailing what had been happening so he can at least have a leg to stand on in the divorce.

I don't do the drip thing, thank you very much.

I've kept it simple because when I told the whole story before, I have been pilloried, and that detracted from any sensible practical advice I could have received. If you like, search my posting history to read it. I have given a bit more detail later.

But I do not play silly games.

From your latest update, she obviously has MH issues.

If you've tried to support her and she isn't improving, I would cease all contact with her for the sake of your own MH.