Can someone help me with a tricky friendship issue?

[JockTamsonsBairns]

I've got a difficult friendship issue going on, and I really need some advice as to how to handle it. I'll try to keep it concise, but also try not to drip feed.

About a year ago, I met a woman through a shared interest, and we got on really well from the outset. Let's call her Pauline.
Pauline and I spent a bit of time together initially, and she shared her back history with me quite early on. About 8 years ago, one of Pauline's children died as a result of a RTA and, a year later, her DH committed suicide.
Obviously, this is absolutely hideous for her, and I offered emotional and practical support as far as I was able to.

Over the next few months, our friendship grew, and I was visiting her at her home a couple of times a week (she lives a 40 minute drive from me).
At one point during this time, a mutual friend contacted me and gently and tactfully warned me about Pauline, saying that she was manipulative and that I should tread carefully. I discarded this advice, as I hadn't seen any hint of this myself.

It's relevant to mention that Pauline is a wheelchair user, and I was taking her into town for her shopping and general errands. I was also taking her dog out for regular walks as she wasn't able to do this herself.

Fast forward to about 6 months ago, and the dynamic started to change. Pauline started to phone me throughout the day/evening, asking me to come over to hers more frequently, saying she was lonely/needed some shopping/taken to the hairdressers etc.
I've explained to her quite a few times now that I can't spare any more time than I already do - I work full time (shift work), I have 3 DCs, and I barely have any time to myself.

Over the past month, the situation has worsened. Pauline texts/rings me daily, saying she needs me to take her into town, or that the dog needs taken to the vet, or that she has a hair appointment.

I genuinely can't commit to this. I don't have time to make hair appointments for myself, and my shift pattern means I don't spend enough time with my own children. I haven't seen my own friends for months.

Two weeks ago, things came to a head.
Pauline sent me a message saying that she wanted me to commit to two days a week where I'd be able to take her out. I replied to her, saying that I get two days off a week, and that I need to do my own stuff - just general household things, and spending time with my family.

That night, at 1am, I got a reply from Pauline, saying that if I can't even commit to at least a day a week, then she might as well not be here, and that she has enough medication in her cupboard to end it all.

I replied to that message, just saying that I felt that it wasn't fair to put that on to me, and I advised her to contact her Community Psychiatric Nurse, who she is known to.

Pauline continues to contact me almost daily. I generally wait a day or two, then reply that I'm really busy these days and can't commit to anything.

I'm not sure if I should be more direct with her. I'm mindful that her life has been pretty shit over the past few years, and I don't want to cause her any further hurt. I don't want to ghost her, but my viewpoint isn't getting through to her.

I received a message from her an hour ago - "Hi, I haven't heard from you and I need a catch up. You said you would contact me but again, you didn't. Please reply asap x"

I don't know what to do. I don't want to hurt her, but I need to extricate myself from this.

Sorry, this is really long.

I have also had a "friend" like this and the way I see it now I've had some space from it is that she is a user. There was nothing she seemed to appreciate about me personally, she was only interested in what I could do for her. She was very transactional. Also the way I knew to expect a backlash even before I cut her off was a red flag in itself. Like if I lost a friend I really cared about I would be sad and looking at what I had done wrong and apologising. She just did a big list of everything i had ever done and all support she had ever given me. Like it was all an exchange and she didn't seem to value anything about the essence of who I was, I could have been anyone as long as I did what she wanted that was all that mattered. Hope this helps.

I'd also think about why you raced in to help her so much in the first place. Presumably you enjoyed something about it? Were you telling her that you were happy to help and giving her the message that she can ask you for favours? Lots of 'no problem' and 'anytime' type of comments that she has taken to be true?

If so maybe you could ask for a proper chat with her and tell her what relationship,you would like with her (if any!) If you just want a coffee with her once a week if you've time then offer that. I think you should call her out on being awful to you though.

However it's also ok to just end the friendship if it's not working for you.

Its alot expected though op. I think she will be nasty whatever you do. Everybody prob got sick of her demands..

I notice your comment that the other people who used to help Pauline out 'melted away' soon after you came on the scene.

I bet they did!

OP, two things can be true at the same time - that Pauline needs and deserves help, and that you are not the person who can or should be giving it.

Walk away, sever the ties firmly but with finality, and feel relief rather than guilt.

@JockTamsonsBairns - you need to back away completely & block her number. Tell her that's what you're going to do & explain that you've told her how busy you are but she hasn't listened. Then carry it out. Put your own family first.

I could have written this myself. I only told my similar friend today that there's a difference between an occasional chat and her calling and texting repeatedly every single day and I can't talk on the phone every single day. I've known her years and she's also had a dreadful life but I'm constantly having to reinforce boundaries because these sort of people have no concept of personal boundaries and become emotional vampires sucking up every scrap of your sympathy and time if you allow them. I love my friend but I do have to keep boundaries intact because given the opportunity she will not acknowledge they exist. I've had all the late night texts, the suicide threats, at one point she was practically stalking me 24 hrs a day to the point I blocked her and the local church intervened to give me a break and they got social services involved and psychiatric help, then gradually and very slowly we started to build bridges again and she has been much better but I still have to keep boundaries in place for my own wellbeing. It's not her fault but some people are so needy that once they find a good listener they won't let go of you. Recently she told me doctors had decided to reduce her medication because she's been doing so well and my first thought was oh no, not again.... and sure enough I'm getting phone calls every day again and more than once a day, demanding constant attention and wanting sympathy and someone to talk to. She'd have me on the phone all day every day if I let her, so again I've had to remind her I'm her friend and I'm there for here but there are boundaries with friendships and we don't need to speak on the phone every single day. I'm seeing how it goes now and I'm optimistic we won't go back the way it was before. But having been there I'm much quicker to make it clear to her that I can't be on the phone talking every single day. It sounds like you're heading where I was and this is the time you need to block her like I did. It's not nice but you are not her therapist and she's isn't your personal responsibility. She is putting far too much pressure on you emotionally and becoming too dependant on you doing everything for her, the balance is all wrong. You are not obliged to commit days to her and her demands are unreasonable. I'm afraid you do learn to be firm when you have a needy friend but for your own mental well-being don't be manipulated. Even when I was working 12 hour days and still trying to run my own household she was pouncing on me the second I walked in my door wanting my time and attention, wanting me to go round the second I got in for a cup of tea because she's lonely, putting notes through the door, waiting outside for me etc and it got exhausting. I was practically hiding from her in the end scared to go out in case she pounced on me. It's really no way to live, believe me x

I'm really grateful for all the replies. It's given me the impetus I need to put boundaries in place - something I haven't been very good at in the past.

To answer some of the questions/points that have come up..

@billy1966 your remark "Learn from this" really hit a nerve, but you're absolutely spot on. This isn't the first time I've been drawn into a situation where my boundaries have been blurred, or absent - although never quite to this extent.
Another pp mentioned being a people pleaser, and that resonates.
You've given me a lot to think about. Possibly too much to go into on this thread, but I was raised by an absent and neglectful mother and it seems to be in my nature to move quickly to 'look after' people. I'm very possibly looking to fill a void somewhere?
It probably won't come as any surprise to anyone to learn that I've been a carer for 26 years. I've never thought about this too deeply, but now I'm thinking that I get a lot out of nurturing people in a way that I was never nurtured myself?
Maybe that answers the questions raised by @UghNoTime too.
I'll reflect on this.

@Pinkjacket22 what you said about the relationship being transactional makes complete sense.
I went up to Scotland in the summer to visit my mother, which is difficult for me emotionally. Pauline was texting me every day, often twice a day, while I was up there. Most of the messages were along the lines of "How are you? Message me ASAP, I'm worried about you" type of thing. I sent the occasional reply saying "I'm absolutely fine, no need to worry, just spending some time with my sister and nephew". But, she persisted with the texts, like she needed to get a twice daily update as to how I was.
It felt strange. I don't even text my own husband twice daily when I go up to Scotland to visit.

Finally @Cameleongirl . You mentioned other children and, yes, there's a backstory here. Pauline has 3 remaining adult children, all in their mid/late twenties. Both daughters are NC with her, and her son is very LC.
I've known this from very early on, but she has never divulged the reasons.
I've witnessed some pretty awful manipulative behaviour from her towards them. A few months ago, she paid a local handy-man to empty her loft - asking him to bring everything down to the living room. I did ask her why she would want that doing, and she just said she needed to know what was up there. I didn't really understand that response, but it was nothing to do with me to probe further.
Once the whole lot was piled up in her living room, she sorted out all her DCs childhood possessions - teddies, toys, collections, school reports, diaries. Just the usual sentimental stuff that parents hang on to.
She put all their things into one big box each, and then sent them a text saying "Your belongings are here for you to collect. If you don't come and get them within 7 days, I'll assume you don't want them and arrange for them to be taken to the tip".
Not one of them responded. So she got the handy-man to come back and put everything back up into the loft.

This has been so helpful to write it all down.
Her five siblings are NC, her adult children are NC/LC, and even the church volunteers have made themselves scarce.
I know what I need to do.
I feel awful for her, I can't change that, but I don't have the ability/time/resources to make her life better. 😢

Yeah, I used to get all the please call me now urgently stuff too. It was never urgent. I think you know what's needed sweetheart, be brave and be fair to you x

@LuckyLil Jesus, that sounds horrific. A lot of what you describe is so familiar to me - the expectation that I'll be responsive at any time of the day or night. And, if I'm not, then I get a pointed reminder of how dreadful her life has been.
I feel like Pauline has carved me out to be her saviour, everyone else has deserted her, so she's hung her coat on my peg. I feel overwhelmed and suffocated by her demands on me.

Gah! I get this frequently!
"Please phone me, I need to talk to you urgently".
I leave it a few hours, then phone her. And everything is fine. I ask her what the urgent matter is, and she just says she's been worried because she's not heard from me.
🤦‍♀️

OP, she sounds terrifying.

Lots of us can allow our ego to persuade us that we can help someone altruistically, when infact it is about us feeling good about ourselves.

Once you recognise it in yourself, acknowledge that it can cause you a problem, you can be wise to it in the future.

I know this from my 20's and early 30's and can now spot a needy/manipulative/CF from 20 paces with my eyes closed.....hard won wisdom 😁.

This has been a tough lesson for you, but one you will learn from, just like I had to, a long time ago👍

She sounds downright scary, OP, please cut contact with her ASAP.

I would be honest - Pauline, things have got to the point where you are saying you feel suicidal and needing several days a week of support which is impossible for me to offer you. For that reason I am going to take a step back so you can connect with people like your CPN who are more qualified to help you than I. I will not be able to respond to questions at the moment but wish you all the best.

Exactly this.
I had one of these women and that's what her Community Psychiatric Nurse advised me to do.

I often thought the please call urgently stuff was a rouse to get me to call her because she knew I wouldn't bother calling if it was something mundane. It is overwhelming and suffocating. I'm in a much better position now because it's possible to meet for a coffee then not hear from her for a week or so which is far easier because the expectation on me to be there at her every whim has gone, but still it was such a memorable time for all the wrong reasons that I'm now very aware not to let things slip back to how it was. It was almost like I didn't even exist as a person and was just there as an object solely for her needs and entertainment, more like a therapist than a friend. I once deleted over 4,000 text messages from her in just 8 weeks it got so bad. I don't even know when she actually slept because the messages were coming all through the day and night at all times. You don't have to be horrible to her to be fair to yourself but be prepared that you might need a full block to bring back some balance. Even when I stopped taking calls she'd engineer situations to get other people to call me on her behalf because she needed to speak to me 'urgently' etc. Be strong because she may not be prepared to let you slip away without a final desperate attempt to get you back in her life, probably there will be some terrible drama that she can't possibly survive without your support etc. Like I said, be strong because this is probably the time she will work even harder for your attention because she'll know she's losing you. I started getting money or gifts through the door to try and buy me back which was just put back through her door. I had to be really tough to be kind. I don't think she'll ever understand why her demands were just too much but I know she's got someone else now who she depends on a lot which gives me breathing space I didn't get before. Just a tip but I learned the hard way that a lot of the things she told me about all the tragedies in her life were not quite how she had presented them to me and she'd purposely go against all the advice people gave her so that she could come running to me when things went all wrong and feed off yet more sympathy and commiseration.

@Mothership4two it's a lovely story but always used to make me cry!

I absolutely agree with this

Do not apologise. In doing that she will think you feel bad and try and tug at your heartstrings even more. And you also haven’t done anything to apologise for.

At this point you have to be direct. You don’t have to be rude or anything, as Pictish said, you can be polite and direct with your approach, without apologising.

Thanks. I'll read this over and over a few times in the next day or two.
I really appreciate your words so much. You've pitched a perfect balance, and given me the trigger that I've needed.

When I started this thread, I thought I would get a range of responses - I expected some people to say that I should stick by her, on the basis that she's clearly hurting. But, the responses have been unanimous - so I know what I need to do.

Two weeks ago, things came to a head. Pauline sent me a message saying that she wanted me to commit to two days a week where I'd be able to take her out. I replied to her, saying that I get two days off a week, and that I need to do my own stuff - just general household things, and spending time with my family

This is just bonkers. I realise it built up gradually though. The cheek of her!

I agree. I'm going to think carefully about my response to her. I'll take on board the excellent advice I've been given here, and I won't apologise.
If I'm being brutally honest, there's still a part of me that feels some empathy towards Pauline - but I now know that's down to the work I need to do on myself, and that'll take time.
I've taken so much from this thread, and I'm so glad I started it and reached out to people far more knowledgeable than me.
I need to work on myself, and stop seeking affirmation from 'looking after' the Paulines in the world.

I know! The last time I got a proper get-together with my own full group of friends was Easter week!
We're all in touch regularly via messaging, but we've all got busy lives - work/kids/relationships, just the usual stuff.
It's insane that Pauline thinks I can carve out two days a week to go and see her.
I don't have two free days a week to see my own husband and kids.

I don't have two free days a week to see my own husband and kids.

Think about the consequences of this.

And then think about it again.

And again.

There is a phrase Pamela Connelly used " detach with love"

You can empathise with your heart but you can also take practical steps to limit your time with her, or reduce it to nothing.

It sounds like her life is deeply unpleasant, bur you cannot save her. She will take everything you have to give and then demand more. I knew a couple of people like her, one a very close relative.

She does not have the right to demnd you are at her beck and call because you have children who need you. Their needs come first and she is sucking you dry, and stealing your energy which should be for them.

She does sound like she is deeply jnappy but you cannot save everyone. Nurture your children, not her.

@LuckyLil Even when I stopped taking calls she'd engineer situations to get other people to call me on her behalf because she needed to speak to me 'urgently' etc.

I had something like this when I blocked the number of someone who started as an occasional friend & got more & more demanding until it became ridiculous. Instead of accepting it or emailing me & asking why I'd blocked her, this person contacted mutual friends & asked them all if I was alright!! When I replied to one friend very diplomatically about the situation, she told me she understood completely & I wasn't the first...

Good luck OP! I found the only way was a complete break & a refusal to be drawn back in in any way.

It’s only natural to still feel empathy for someone, despite their behaviour, if you’re a very compassionate person.

It’s not a bad thing per se, it just shows you have a big heart. I was the same for a long time. Gave people too many chances because there was still that compassionate part of me that couldn’t quite let go and say no.

I’ve toughened up more as I’ve got older, purely because of having so many people take the piss out of my good nature! But I still have my moments!

It’s quite clear you are a good and kind hearted person. But the Pauline’s of this world will take advantage of that. So it’s about setting some boundaries for yourself and putting yourself and your own mental health first sometimes 😊