To think all men are bas**rds...??

[Louloudaisy2020]

Pretty much this really!

While I love women (and men) seeking advice and the support they get on here from the breakdown of marriages/relarionships/cheating etc. I can't help but feel it's a majority of the population and it's getting me down...

All I hear are stories of poor relationships, men with OW, doesn't help around the house, has no respect, doesn't help with the kids etc etc. Most of my friends are also I totally unequal relationships where their partner does 0 in all respects. I too have been there in the past.

Is this what we are all destined for in this generation??

Feed me some good stories and let's put some positivity out there in what seems like a world of negativity (whilst all still relevant and real) at the moment 🥰

Can someone please define "decent man" for me?

I've owned a hotel for many many years, and I agree with the person that said there are levels of decent.

There are the decent men who stopped me from being physically attacked, who also spend most of their weekends making sexist, repulsive comments, and even the occasional grope if they can.

There are the decent men who take their wives and children out for a Sunday roast when the previous evening they were propositioning me and every other female.

There are the decent men who work full time and pop to the pub on the weekend with their mates to watch the footie whilst they all "rate" their SILs or worse "rate" the colleague they were secretly shagging at work.

The men you see at home or the men who go out with you, are very different from the men that go out without you.

So yeah as a few examples how are we defining "decent"?

Yes examples would be great …
how about the supposedly decent men who to their wives and children are living but sneak off to use sex workers or hook up sites
hat about the decent men who are kind to their families leer at it make comments to teenage girls who may or may not be underage
girls hat about the decent men who wt work go above qbd beyond but at home like to watch violent porn where women are beaten abused and degraded

all these men may be called great men by the women they are kind too ( often the ones the paint ad the Madonna dub their Madonna : who’re complex ) but lead secret lives

the sex industry had a HUGE client base of married men who’s wives, families and colleagues have zero idea how they truly see women and treat other women

It's depressing isn't it.

It does seem the behaviour and morality of men is going downhill without brakes with the evolving of the internet industry.

Most people are ‘decent’ people or treat others decently/ live decently, right up until the moment they’re not. I read on another forum that “some people are assholes and some people are broken. Assholes usually stay assholes but broken people sometimes learn and change if given the opportunity.”

My friend's older brother fell out with some of his oldest schoolfriends when they tried to go to a strip club on a stag do. Him and a few others refused to go and were disgusted at the suggestion. The same guy would 100% speak up if he heard men rating their female colleagues in an office or any other locker room type talk. My ex even, has been ostracised in his workplace for similar. I know men who have changed their surname to their wife's when they got married. My own brother took 9 months of paternity leave for all 3 of his children, is a completely equal parent in every sense of the word - my bar for this being set is that the other parent could drop dead, touch wood, and apart from the obvious emotional upset, the surviving parent could carry on raise the children without struggling to know what needed done. Some small examples. I do feel very lucky that I know so many good ones because I always trusted my gut to spot a bad one and never doubted my worth.

Good men do exist, their wives just aren't posting about them on advice pages. There are plenty of them and I can tell you for free they are not hanging round looking to spend their lives with door mats.

I married one of the shit ones 15 years ago and have to live with the consequences of that - DS growing up with a shit dad who chooses to do nothing with him.

I then married (after divorcing obvs) the best guy on the planet. He's amazing and I'll shout that from the rooftops every day of the week after the crap I've been though previously. He cooks, cleans, parents, works hard, loves me and respects me, supports me, encourages me. We work best as a team and I'm happier than I have ever been.

@NewMeforthemillionthtime does he have an older brother cut from the same cloth??

Also guess all the women who’s partners show a wonderful side of themselves but secretly do the above , like leer at and make comments to teenage girls ( not caring if they are underage or not ) , enjoy seeing women demeaned and abused in porn , uses sex workers etc are these unknowing women just thinking too much about how crap men are too ?

How is it self fulfilling for these millions of women saying how wonderful their partners who are doing these things behind their backs ?

maybe have a think about how ridiculous your claim is before you try dismissing the very real behaviour of many men

so The millions of women murdered stalked and sexually abused are doormats
fuvking hell

@Natty13
‘Good men do exist, their wives just aren't posting about them on advice pages. There are plenty of them and I can tell you for free they are not hanging round looking to spend their lives with door mats.’

Its really quite disgusting to imply that the millions of women who are with men who cheat , sexually harassed other women ( even teenagers ) without their knowledge , use violent abusive porn or sex workers behind their wives backs are all doormats. There are many many many strong independent intelligent women who think their partners are great UNTIL they find out they are doing these things

What point are you trying to make? That we can never be absolutely certain what speculative atrocities somebody might commit that we don’t know about when we aren’t around, so it’s best to assume that everyone is indeed secretly raping prostitutes and sexually harassing teenagers and treat them with according disdain? I don’t think I’d be a particularly nice person to be around if that was my starting base for engaging with fifty percent of the population.

No the point being made is that these things are being committed in high numbers… it’s not some tiny percentage of men commiting all the sexual harassment, violent porn and worse etc .. it’s much more than a few
look at the stats they simply don’t add up to MOST men being decent …
you can say what you and be judging if women who feel a lot of men are bastards … all of say is they are realistic and have their heads out of the sand ….

@ComtesseDeSpair

I don’t by any stretch believe all men are bastards and I do believe there are decent men but I most surely believe there’s major issues with many men and a lot of hidden hostility towards women… much more than via versa
out of interest what percentage of men do you believe are doing ANY of the things mentioned ?
5, 10 , 50?
if it’s a tiny percentage how do that account for all the stats

It does seem the behaviour and morality of men is going downhill without brakes with the evolving of the internet industry.

Nah, it's always been grim. The Internet has provided more opportunities but it's probably also why we know about it more. It's not like porn and prostitution and rape and domestic abuse and violence against women were invented by the Internet. It was always there. Things like laws on rape in marriage and coercive control and so on means these things are more likely to be reported and thus known about more widely.

There have always been good men, too, but there were always the ones who beat their wives, drank the family into penury, used prostitutes, etc. There weren't any good old days.

Yes there was a big survey done across several countries that showed men hugely underestimate how much sexual harassment women experience.

The survey actually said women underestimate too but not as much as men.

‘The question was part of the pollster Ipsos Mori’s Perils of Perception survey, which measures the gap between the public’s understanding of issues and reality.’

in UK when asked what oercenage of women have experienced sexual harassment since age 15 , men said around 45 percent and women said around 55 but the truth is 80%

Who do people think is doing all this harassment of 80percent of women 🙄

Agree Toob.
We all want to believe the men we know, married to, sons, brothers, fathers are all good men. I've no doubt some of them pull their weight around the house, it doesn't not mean they are behaving the same respectful way when they are on their own or with their mates.

This is why I ask what is "decent" because I can hand on heart say I could tell you something bad about almost all of the men I've had to meet, but if you don't think leering at young girls, or chatting up random women, making misogynistic comments, makes them creeps then I can understand why you think many men are decent.
My bar is luckily a lot higher and I regard anyone who partakes in the behaviors I've described in this post and my last, as not decent men, so unfortunately the absolute overwhelming majority of men to me are not decent.

Is it possible that the samples used in your survey are not cross section of wider society?

Okay, but - and this is just a general point about your implication of the survey - and not a comment on the burden of sexual harassment girls and women are exposed to - but whether the number was 45%, 55% or 80% this study only demonstrates the scale and breadth of the harassment - it is not a study that explores the gulf between our perception and reality of the number of harassers.

Given that one single man who inflicts sexual harrasment on girls and women isn't limited to one single woman, and could well fall to the hundreds - that study tells us nothing about the scale or percentage of men who go through victimising women in this manner.

I know there are good men out there - they're in my family. My dad was a brilliant man before he passed away 7 years ago. My uncles and cousins' husbands are great men. My brother is a great man as well.
Unfortunately, my husband turned out to be an outdated misogynist who recently told me that, when I'm home from work, I'm a wife and mum and if I want anything else for myself, I'm being selfish. I'm planning to LTB this weekend.
I thought my husband was a good man, but he's just another b@$t@rd.

I'm not sure it's helpful to hear how great other people's partners are when it hasn't been your experience. Just because 'My Bryan's lovely' it doesn't mean you've less chance of ending up with a wrong 'un.
Your odds of avoiding the men complained about on these threads can only be lessened by being very discerning and very cautious, by cultivating independence and strong self worth, being clear about what's important and not compromising on that. By believing that being single is better than being with a substandard partner.
Never allow a relationship to be the only thing in your life, keep your independence and your network of female friends. This gives you the resources you need to nip any unacceptable behaviour in the bud, knowing you can move on should you need to.

A huge part of vulnerability to bastards is what the men were like in your life as you grew up. They set the benchmark.

my father and my brother - on any human level, not just for a “man” were and are exceptionally kind, loving, respectful, thoughtful all round wonderful men.

so my expectations for a romantic partner was and always is - very very high!

Absolutely!
I'm scared about leaving my H this weekend and know I've got a tough road ahead. However, I'm SO looking forward to being on my own (well, with my DD as well) and not having to deal with someone like my H anymore. I'm looking forward to being independent, living my life as I want to, not having to worry about his opinions on what I'm doing and being the woman I was before I married him.

Is that what I said? No, no it wasn't and don't try to twist my words.

I meant the multiple, multiple women who post here day after day saying things like "I have done all the cooking, cleaning, housework and childcare for 15 years ehile working 60h/week while my husband does his hobbies, scratches his arse and ignores my birthday every year. Am I being selfish asking for him to watch the kids while I take 7 minutes to do a poo even though I use that time to also buy his socks and do an online food shop?" Doormats. MN is full of them. All the women I know in my life who would tolerate this crap have ended up with a man who takes them for granted. The ones who have higher standards for themselves funny enough haven't ended up being taken for granted and worked like a skivvy.

This and what @Toob
Yes examples would be great …

how about the supposedly decent men who to their wives and children are living but sneak off to use sex workers or hook up sites

hat about the decent men who are kind to their families leer at it make comments to teenage girls who may or may not be underage

girls hat about the decent men who wt work go above qbd beyond but at home like to watch violent porn where women are beaten abused and degraded

all these men may be called great men by the women they are kind too ( often the ones the paint ad the Madonna dub their Madonna : who’re complex ) but lead secret lives

the sex industry had a HUGE client base of married men who’s wives, families and colleagues have zero idea how they truly see women and treat other women

…wrote* *are really good and important things.
And I think it soeaks volumes that they got ignored.

For one we should be honest and say that many women have really liw bars as to what a decent man is.
MN is filled with women who think porn is totally cool and fun.
So their standards are low to begin with.

And two, it’s alao clearly about ego.
The whole ”I picked a good man”, many don’t want to see who they really are sharing a life with.

This and what @Toob
Yes examples would be great …

how about the supposedly decent men who to their wives and children are living but sneak off to use sex workers or hook up sites

hat about the decent men who are kind to their families leer at it make comments to teenage girls who may or may not be underage

girls hat about the decent men who wt work go above qbd beyond but at home like to watch violent porn where women are beaten abused and degraded

all these men may be called great men by the women they are kind too ( often the ones the paint ad the Madonna dub their Madonna : who’re complex ) but lead secret lives

the sex industry had a HUGE client base of married men who’s wives, families and colleagues have zero idea how they truly see women and treat other women

…wrote* *are really good and important things.
And I think it soeaks volumes that they got ignored.

For one we should be honest and say that many women have really liw bars as to what a decent man is.
MN is filled with women who think porn is totally cool and fun.
So their standards are low to begin with.

And two, it’s alao clearly about ego.
The whole ”I picked a good man”, many don’t want to see who they really are sharing a life with.