Son went on a huge Incel rant

[Username50201]

So my son is 24 years old and I've always know that he has never had a girlfriend but the other day he went on a huge incel rant because he cant get women. My son does have a few friends and I even ran into this girl who he works with who said that he's a lovely lad so I dont think he acts like this outside the house.

But he is VERY obsessed with his appearance, He has a birthmark scar on his forehead (which aint even really noticable) and a small pink mole on his face (again, Cant really see it) which he is insecure about. He's visited plastic surgeons and paid consultation fees, he's currently thinking of getting them removed although apparently there is some risks like it might leave him looking worse.

He's always buying clothes, skincare products, teeth whitening kits and He will be at the gym most days.

But the other day he went on a huge rant as to how ugly he is and that no woman ever matches with him on dating sites, he also tells me how all his mates and the men around him get girls while he doesnt. He's not even ugly at all, he's tall, he keeps himself athletic and very intelligant (has an IQ of around 150 apparently).

But he said to me that the only way he is ever going to get a girlfriend is if he pays for a mail order wife and the only way he can get sex is if he pays a prostitute.

He believes he is ugly because he doesnt get any matches on tinder even tho he said to me that he swipes right on most women. I then said to him that maybe he is going for girls out of his league in which he replied "Well as long as they are not fat, dont have kids but want some then I'll most likely be interested"

He also feels pressure that he has to earn more money and be more sucessful than everyone else around him or else women wont be interested in him.

Another thing is that he always talks about how every other man is better looking than him and how he doesnt stand a chance with women

Why wouldn't this thread be genuine, this is a real problem. OP is brave coming here sharing this. I feel for you @Username50201 my son is 16 and I don't think he's respectful to me at all. Not an incel (yet?) but having attempted to engage with some of these lunatics on line it's impossible.

I don't think what the OP is describing is her son not being respectful, exactly? It's more than I am surprised a son would discuss his sexual preferences/sex life in this amount of detail with his mother, and when I used the word 'genuine,' what I guess I meant was, if he really is talking like this to her, then what on earth should we think he says to potential romantic partners?

I sometimes do iq testing as part of my job.
First - No reputable test measures up to 150. This makes me suspicious that he has done a Mensa type test. They deliberately do a test where the standard deviation is 25 whereas the standard tests (BAS and WAIS in UK) use a standard deviation of 15. This is done for reasons of ego because obviously it inflates the numbers. So an IQ of 115 on standard measures becomes 125 on these tests. An IQ of "150" on these tests would be 130 in usual testing. But it doesn't sound as good.

Second - IQ tests are notoriously poor at measuring a person's worth in many ways. It is based on a narrow definition of intellect that completely ignores social intelligence, kindness, efficiency, tolerance, etc etc.

One of the dangers of this sort of test is that it makes people think they are "elite" in some way. This is pernicious thinking. Clever people aren't better. And an IQ of 150 is not measured on standard tools even if you do hold store by this kind of thing.

QueSyrahSyrah

Thank you

There is lack of confidence and then there is whatever that is. There are quite a few unattractive qualities there (not his looks) and there is no way he can hide all that when he talks to a woman so he will give a vibe that will make women stay away. He needs to talk to a professional.

Character is more important than looks. The sooner he starts working on that the quicker he will have relationships. But these things take time and patience and cannot be forced. 5-7 years of working on himself is needed.

Goodness what kind of relationship do people have with their adult children if they can't discuss this sort of thing? Its not like he gave his mother any detail (which would be ick) since he hasn't been sexually active. My son (18) has confided in me that he is concerned that he hasn't had a girlfriend (he went to an all boys school and has just finished A levels), and joked that he doesn't want to be a 20 year old virgin. I managed not to clutch my pearls. I think fair play to the OP that she has that sort of relationship with her son that he can come to her with his worries

Not wanting a woman with children is a weird criteria at 24

Why?
Not wanting to deal with other people’s kids is a fine boundary to have.
And I say that as a woman.

What is the point in quouting that one sentence and eliminating the rest? Because very few women have children between 20-26 say. It is not a normal criteria for a 24 year old man to have. It sounds like something he saw online and is repeating rather than something he's ever experienced @YouAreNotBatman

You are now the third person who hasn't bothered to take the time to read my post. Stop getting outraged and slow down. I don't think there's anything weird about not wanting kids but we are talking about a 24 yo dating other 24yos.

Incel forums are also hostile towards single mothers and other women who don't meet their standards, if I'm not mistaken. Which is what I was getting at. To me, it sounds like something he's got off Reddit, not a real problem this 24 year old man has ever encountered.

I thought this was a good podcast on incels which may be helpful for your son:

Hopefully it's ok to post YouTube links here.

He sounds very shallow and insecure and I’m doubting his sexuality from what you’ve said.

I suggest he starts therapy as he may find what his looking for.

I am guessing you've had the it isn't his face/body that is ugly but it is his attitude. Self loathing and being judgemental is a combination doomed to being single. Like emotional self harm.

Any chance he'd go to a counsellor rather than a plastic surgeon?

These dating apps are poison.

They're all 80% men and women only swipe on the best best looking men because they have so much choice.

I know a few good good looking fellas who look perfectly nice in real life but get no likes on tinder because they're not a 8/10 love island looking model.

What absolute balls.

You can tell a lot about a man by what he writes on his profile, regardless of his pictures. I think men really underestimate how much of themselves they 'leak' on their dating profiles. Sometimes they're hilarious unintentionally. Trying to present a certain way but a profile full of red flags you can see from space.

If your profile is getting zero interest your profile is unattractive. You need better pictures and a better write up.

Men have overall been in for a shock, since women now can choose who they want to be with and feel less forced by circumstance and societal expectations.

Bare minimum is no longer enough and now most men need to develop likeable personalities.

Dating apps are bad for everyone, but Hinge or another app would be much better than hook up driven Tinder.

He needs to start viewing women as people, people who don't owe him anything.

He needs to work on his personality and perception of the world/women as with that attitude he's never going to get far.

Would your son be interested in joining the forces OP? A healthy routine, hard work and social circle the forces can provide would likely be very beneficial.

I bet it is his profile. There is nothing more off putting than seeing someone writing 'does no one ever talk on here?' or having a rant about woman being rude by ignoring messages etc. If he's at university he'll be in contact with women, perhaps he is putting them off by coming across bitter.

His attitude is the problem. I know lots of non-model looking men in relationships, same as non-model looking women. Personality is a huge factor and females are learning more about red flags at a younger age. He should speak to someone (relationship counsellor?)

That may be true of Tinder but it isn't true of all OLD sites. I know some men who are not conventionally good looking at all who ended up with gorgeous long term girlfriends and fiancees - who have great personality and looks, because they are really lovely men who chatted respectfully and thoughtfully and engaged with the women as human beings not as potential shags.

This is true.

How is this incel? He sounds like he has low self esteem and is extremely sexually frustrated.

Has it occurred to him that women may also have requirements which mean they couldn’t be with someone? Not just looks, but attitude and personality?

I think it’s his personality that is shining through his profile and is putting women off. It’s all about him and what he wants. He seems to have forgotten that he’s making a first impression with an actual person, not ordering a takeaway. He’s asking for a non fat woman with no kids yet. He might as well be saying that he doesn’t care about their personality or their interests because that’s of no interest to him. He’s only concerned about how attracted he is to his future breeding machine. No wonder he’s not meeting anyone.

There is nothing wrong with not wanting to date someone who has children or is overweight. He just needs to expand his social circle more and get out there (and get off the internet).

You’re his mum so probably are not seeing how he is presenting himself. His app profile might be off putting to women and he sounds a bit boring for a man in his mid twenties-does he care about anything but his appearance and how others look.
Also talking about mail order brides means his attitude to women is that they are objects to be purchased-women sense this and are put off obviously.
He needs to get interesting and interested in others or he will end up with no partner.

All the posters saying this isn't Incel..... You clearly have no experience of Incel, red pill, mgtow etc movements.

Everything he is saying is literally incel/red pill 101 .... Text book.

It is certainly underpinned by low self esteem, shallowness etc though.