Son went on a huge Incel rant

[Username50201]

So my son is 24 years old and I've always know that he has never had a girlfriend but the other day he went on a huge incel rant because he cant get women. My son does have a few friends and I even ran into this girl who he works with who said that he's a lovely lad so I dont think he acts like this outside the house.

But he is VERY obsessed with his appearance, He has a birthmark scar on his forehead (which aint even really noticable) and a small pink mole on his face (again, Cant really see it) which he is insecure about. He's visited plastic surgeons and paid consultation fees, he's currently thinking of getting them removed although apparently there is some risks like it might leave him looking worse.

He's always buying clothes, skincare products, teeth whitening kits and He will be at the gym most days.

But the other day he went on a huge rant as to how ugly he is and that no woman ever matches with him on dating sites, he also tells me how all his mates and the men around him get girls while he doesnt. He's not even ugly at all, he's tall, he keeps himself athletic and very intelligant (has an IQ of around 150 apparently).

But he said to me that the only way he is ever going to get a girlfriend is if he pays for a mail order wife and the only way he can get sex is if he pays a prostitute.

He believes he is ugly because he doesnt get any matches on tinder even tho he said to me that he swipes right on most women. I then said to him that maybe he is going for girls out of his league in which he replied "Well as long as they are not fat, dont have kids but want some then I'll most likely be interested"

He also feels pressure that he has to earn more money and be more sucessful than everyone else around him or else women wont be interested in him.

Another thing is that he always talks about how every other man is better looking than him and how he doesnt stand a chance with women

I wouldn't be surprised if there are red flags on his profile that are putting women off. Could be defensive/sarcastic comments, unsmiling photos that are all bathroom selfies or doesn't give any sense of him as a person at all. If he's got all the things going for him that you say he has, and he's swiping almost all of the girls be sees, then he needs to make sure that his profile appears approachable and friendly.

People need to stop getting Incels mixed up with extreme mysogonistsor frustrated nice guys (reminds me of that episode of law and order SVU). Anyone can be an Incel (see femcels and gaycels), not just heterosexual men! In fact the Incel movement was started by a gay lady
OP's son just sounds frustrated (hardly surprising as there is a surplus of men) and should just forget about dating or sex for the time being. Wasting energy on something that is unobtainable at present is not healthy. And, yes, needs to be told no one owes him anything, like he doesn't owe anyone anything. Also, a lot of young men exaggerate or lie about their attractiveness and sexual conquests, so to just take it with a pinch of salt and that he's not the only one 'missing out'.

What male role models does he have?

Doesn't sound like an incel rant to me at all.

It sounds like he's lonely, depressed, has low self image and is lashing out. With you telling him that some girls are 'out of his league' I'd wonder if his upbringing has something to do with his low self image tbh - I can't imagine saying that to my dc.

If he was ranting about how women are shallow whores who fail to recognise how he deserves their attention/love/sex - THATS an incel rant.

Tell him to spend the money on good therapy rather than cosmetic treatments.

Tell him that men with his attitude are dangerous to women and this could be what is putting them off. He needs to drop his male entitlement and start seeing women as intelligent, motivated, social beings, not just somewhere to stick it.

Mail order brides not a thing but he can marry a woman from outside the UK and live here if he gets the necessary visas. Married women do not have to have sex with their husbands so that's no guarantee for him either.

He needs to grow up.

I'm on a dating site at the moment. The minute a man lays down his list of requirements, I'm off. It shows a complete lack of interest in the PERSON. No woman wants to be with someone that selfish or self-obsessed. That lack of awareness of others is highly unattractive. A relationship is about two people connecting emotionally and physically and he seems stuck on the physical. Surely he knows that??? Has he been brought up to see women as lesser brings? Yuck yuck yuck. As his mother I would be questioning what I had been modelling to him for the last 24 years!!

It's disturbing that he and you keep saying "a woman". Like a car or a house. Even discussing buying one.

I don't care what he looks like, no human being will want to or be able to have an emotional or sexual connection with someone who sees them as a commodity.

The issue is with him and his attitudes. He can change or he can stay celebate- no one owes him a thing.

Not wanting a woman with children is a weird criteria at 24, that sounds incel-y, purely because it sounds like something he's parroting from Reddit. And to an extent the weight criteria too.

Definitely lots of insecurity, which I don't want to judge to much because I'm sure we've all been there, but yeah.

I mean, you're a woman, would you be attracted to someone who is with you purely on the grounds that you aren't fat, you've not got children and you are willing to have sex with him?

If he thinks he needs money and looks he's wrong - he needs respect.

It’s an interesting first thread for OP, isn’t it? Asking advice on ‘Mail order brides’ for his/her son.

You can tell he doesn't have a wealth of experience and few interactions with real women.

And tbh, I don't know why people are saying he's not an incel, he quite literally is involuntarily celibate and spouting the what that community says. He's not on the extreme end but he can very easily go down that rabbit hole

Does he want a life partner or just sex with any non-fat woman who'll give it to him? 🙄 Good looks and money are rarely top of the list for sensible women. Number one is usually a decent personality. Which he doesn't seem to have. He's is own worst enemy. Bitterness is not a turn-on.

This. Make friends with girls and then as his social circle widens he may meet someone he's compatible with. When he says "fat" does he mean actually fat or anyone above a size 8 for eg.

@fanjosaysi Really? I certainly wouldn't have wanted to date someone who already had kids when I was 24. Hell I didn't even entertain the idea of dating someone with kids until I was mid-30s.

I don't think it's that weird criteria at all?

You keep trying to point this out, but nobody’s listening.

You have made him sound appalling.

Did he go to university? Does he not work with people of the opposite sex or have friends??

I sympathise with him even if he is being awful, because DS had a similar feeling. It is painful for them.

DS finally plucked up courage to join Hinge which is much gentler than Tinder, snd within a couple of weeks had a few repeat dates and now has a girlfriend.

Encourage him to focus on his interests and what sort of things (apart from the obvious) he'd want to do with a girlfriend - how would he want to spend time with her? Then get him to try somewhere a bit less pressured than tinder, and to focus on the girls who look pretty but normal, not posing too much. If he chats to them first for a week or two, he will see if he builds up a rapport with any of them.

I met an old friend yesterday who chatted 5 hurs a day with a man she met online during lockdown. When they got out of lockdown they moved in together the day they met in person, because they were so sure they liked eachother.
A year on, they are getting married and they really do seem like soulmates.

I bet your DS is lovely looking, but even if he weren't, he could still find love if he focuses on how he connects with a girl, not just whether they like the look of each other.

You need to read what I wrote before jumping in. I said because it sounds exactly like something off a subreddit if you're familiar with incels.

There aren't many 20 somethings with kids so this criteria clearly did not come from real world interaction. Not like every 22yo he tries to date is a mum, is it? Weird criteria to have

He sounds a bit immature and as PP have said needs to have better life experience and to form meaningful friendships and relationships with real women and not judge people from online experiences. It does sound like he has complex issues with self esteem combined with arrogance and entitlement to a relationship. Mental health issues are rife amongst young men, he needs to recognise his attitudes are not healthy for him or for any potential partner. Does he have any mature male role models he can talk to? It sound like he needs some guidance or counselling but he won’t be receptive until he realises there is an issue.

Sounds like he is self absorbed, has low self esteem, and doesn’t really like women beyond what they look like. He appears to be obsessed with appearance. None of that is attractive to most women. Does he have any women friends? Can he relate to women as people? Because that sounds like a major stumbling block to me.

@fanjosaysi Ah ok that makes more sense, sorry.

But with regards how many single Mums he encounters I'd say it depends a) what age range he's actually looking for, we've both assumed similar to him but we don't know and b) where they are and the local socio-economic situation. Some places have more young parents and single parents than others for various reasons.

I remember when I was about 16 thinking I would never have a boyfriend because I thought I was fat. A more mature friend (male) told me that you make love with a person not a body.

It seems like your son hasn't learned this yet.

Women are just people. They aren't a trophy or a measure of your prowess or anything.

In NZ there was a song, in the 80's, called 'It's Got to be Perfect'. A particular line I remember is 'too many people take second best, but I won't take anything less - it's got to be PERFECT'. Even in my teenager years I took exception to this. I wasn't perfect. Why should I expect not to compromise in my relationships? Maybe he should think about this?

Also, I reckon that chip on his shoulder is making him look like Quasimodo. Most probably to potential girl friends and all. I tell my girls no one is thinking about them as much as they are, other people are actually obsessing about their very own selves!

Does he have any female friends? Does he even like women, you know, as human beings not status symbols?