Son went on a huge Incel rant

[Username50201]

So my son is 24 years old and I've always know that he has never had a girlfriend but the other day he went on a huge incel rant because he cant get women. My son does have a few friends and I even ran into this girl who he works with who said that he's a lovely lad so I dont think he acts like this outside the house.

But he is VERY obsessed with his appearance, He has a birthmark scar on his forehead (which aint even really noticable) and a small pink mole on his face (again, Cant really see it) which he is insecure about. He's visited plastic surgeons and paid consultation fees, he's currently thinking of getting them removed although apparently there is some risks like it might leave him looking worse.

He's always buying clothes, skincare products, teeth whitening kits and He will be at the gym most days.

But the other day he went on a huge rant as to how ugly he is and that no woman ever matches with him on dating sites, he also tells me how all his mates and the men around him get girls while he doesnt. He's not even ugly at all, he's tall, he keeps himself athletic and very intelligant (has an IQ of around 150 apparently).

But he said to me that the only way he is ever going to get a girlfriend is if he pays for a mail order wife and the only way he can get sex is if he pays a prostitute.

He believes he is ugly because he doesnt get any matches on tinder even tho he said to me that he swipes right on most women. I then said to him that maybe he is going for girls out of his league in which he replied "Well as long as they are not fat, dont have kids but want some then I'll most likely be interested"

He also feels pressure that he has to earn more money and be more sucessful than everyone else around him or else women wont be interested in him.

Another thing is that he always talks about how every other man is better looking than him and how he doesnt stand a chance with women

Does he see the taking care of his appearance as simply a ploy to attract women? If so, that will be obvious. Some men will sit there, all groomed, clean, smart, and make intelligent conversation - but none of its real. They’re all just tools to get a woman into bed - any acceptable woman.

Once you spot this, then it’s incredibly off-putting as you realise you could be anyone, and everything about your date is fake and manipulative with you as some bit-part player.

He’s 24. His mum is fussing about him. He’ll make friends and meet someone in his own time.

There must be something offputting about his personality then. A nice looking lad at uni should have ample opportunity to meet childless not overweight women there!

I remember when doing OLD, if I saw men stating that they wanted you to look like your pics, no fake make up, not overweight etc, I dismissed them despite not being overweight, looking like my pics and only wear subtle make up.

So I would advise him to chill out about his looks, smile, have fun, join clubs and if there is anyone he’s getting on with, he can ask her out.

I never want to date someone with kids. It's a perfectly normal choice to make.

Women are human beings not commodities to be bought, ysed and discarded. How attractive would you find your partner OP if he treated you as something he could buy to use for his own gratification. He talks about paying for prostitutes ( so buying sex and using the women as a sex toy effectively) and buying a wife , so again a living sex toy and someone to clean up after him and meet his needs. What about a potential partners needs?
He may be physically attractive and look after his outward appearance but his inner self sounds ugly and not someone a young, intelligent, women would be drawn to.
Maybe he needs to se his money to work on his mental health rather than paying to have a spot removed, as he just sounds so shallow.

I never want to date someone with kids. It's a perfectly normal choice to make.

Don't reply if you can't be bothered to read my post. That is NOT remotely what I said.

To me sounds like he has zero confidence which is impacting his mood and attitude towards others. Unless he sorts that out he will not be attractive to anyone as that negativity will come across in his interactions. Might sound harsh but I can imagine, from the information you have given us, him being one of those guys who questions or gets angry when a girl doesn’t respond or cuts contact on dating sites. The hottest guy in the world may get any girl but will she stay with him when he has such a negative attitude or personality.

If he was just after getting a woman into bed for a quick shag, he wouldn't care if she had children or not. A man who wants a woman to not have any children, but wants children, is a man who wants to start a family of his own.

I really don't think many women recognize a decent man these days.

What if she's a widow?

OP, have you read his profile? I wonder what he’s expressing or how he’s describing himself. I wouldn’t want someone who’s obsessed with his looks, or whose anger and resentment shows through, or who seems to have no interests or anything to arouse my interest. You may be able to help him write something more attractive.

But he definitely needs to work on his attitude to women too.

He's a stupid man child who thinks women are toys. He wants one because all his mates have one.

I'd be tearing him a new arsehole if he were my son.

The women he's encountering on dating apps are seeing straight through him tobthe ugly entitlement and petulance inside and hearing all the alarm bells.

So he has a job, does he have hobbies and a large circle of friends, those are other ways of meeting people.

I think its a big stretch to call that an incel rant. OK, in an ideal world, you would want him to consider women beyond their appearance, but I don't think its too awful for a young person of either sex who is into fitness, not to want an OW partner, or for a childless person to want a childless partner. Dating a woman with children may not be ideal for an inexperienced 24 year old.
As PP said, he's showing no signs of anger to women or entitlement, merely frustration and concern there's something wrong with him.
Unless you're picking up other red flags of poor attitudes to women, I'd not go thinking of him in those terms. Incel is probably the worst label a woman can give to a man, and from what you've said in your post, I don't think he deserves that.

I wouldn't say that this is incel, more low self esteem.

Doesn't sound like incel to me. More has very low self esteem. But on Mumsnet men can't have these feelings and they must hate all women.

Tbh I think what he's said about himself about myself. I don't think anyone is attracted to me and I think if I lost a bit of weight, fix something's about my body I'd be more attractive. He seems very conscious of the marks on his face and thinks this is stopping him from finding anyone.

Can you recommend him seeing a doctor or speaking to someone?

I'd encourage your son to:

1 Spend less time on the internet
2 Get off dating apps
3 Start a hobby or sport that he is passionate about. This will increase his confidence and widen his social circle
4 Forget about getting a girlfriend or going on dates as he may be putting too much pressure on himself and subconsciously self sabotaging himself.

Can he borrow a dog 'he is looking after for a friend' to make him look a kindly bloke in his dating profile.

His attitude is appalling, that goes without saying, but he sounds depressed, socially anxious, possibly Body Dysmorphic and projecting. I think therapy is a sensible step and also if you can advise him to (I realise this is difficult at the moment!) speak to a G.P.

I know I'm in a minority here , but I haven't got a clue what "incel" means . Can someone explain please ?

Prostitutes? Mail order brides? In what world is that just insecure rather than woman hating?!

His standards for a partner should be about interests, personality, shared beliefs, and life goals. So yes, a desire for children and being at a similar stage in life should be major criteria. That he doesn’t mention wanting to find someone who loves reading, camping, restaurants, gaming, or whatever other way he loves spending his time is the real concern. So yes, his standards are extremely skewed. Any woman with self-respect is going to see that immediately and not be interested.

the world is full of happily partnered couples of various levels of attractiveness. It’s because they realize that the substance of a person is what matters.

He needs to get busy with hobbies that give him opportunities to develop interests and relationships. widen his social circle.

counselling

Involuntary celibate. A subset of people (often but not always Men) who blame their lack of success with relationships and/or lack of sex on the people (often Women) they'd like to be having relationships or sex with.

Extremely hateful towards the people 'withholding' what they want, while simultaneously entirely unaware that being a hateful and vile troll living in your Mum's basement often without any real life or interests isn't going to make them especially attractive to anyone 🤷🏻‍♀️

Honestly, if you're giving an accurate picture of him, I suspect it's his attitude/behaviour rather than his looks that are at fault. Most people would be turned off by someone who mentions their IQ, especially if they believe it's around 150 - my first thought would be 'bullshit' and my second 'why do you think I would care?' And the same with the obsession with his appearance and the competitive attitude. Let alone the bit about prostitutes/mail order brides.

If this is a genuine thread, and if he really says things like this to his own mother, frankly, it's not exactly surprising women aren't falling over themselves to declare him a prince among men.