Son went on a huge Incel rant

[Username50201]

So my son is 24 years old and I've always know that he has never had a girlfriend but the other day he went on a huge incel rant because he cant get women. My son does have a few friends and I even ran into this girl who he works with who said that he's a lovely lad so I dont think he acts like this outside the house.

But he is VERY obsessed with his appearance, He has a birthmark scar on his forehead (which aint even really noticable) and a small pink mole on his face (again, Cant really see it) which he is insecure about. He's visited plastic surgeons and paid consultation fees, he's currently thinking of getting them removed although apparently there is some risks like it might leave him looking worse.

He's always buying clothes, skincare products, teeth whitening kits and He will be at the gym most days.

But the other day he went on a huge rant as to how ugly he is and that no woman ever matches with him on dating sites, he also tells me how all his mates and the men around him get girls while he doesnt. He's not even ugly at all, he's tall, he keeps himself athletic and very intelligant (has an IQ of around 150 apparently).

But he said to me that the only way he is ever going to get a girlfriend is if he pays for a mail order wife and the only way he can get sex is if he pays a prostitute.

He believes he is ugly because he doesnt get any matches on tinder even tho he said to me that he swipes right on most women. I then said to him that maybe he is going for girls out of his league in which he replied "Well as long as they are not fat, dont have kids but want some then I'll most likely be interested"

He also feels pressure that he has to earn more money and be more sucessful than everyone else around him or else women wont be interested in him.

Another thing is that he always talks about how every other man is better looking than him and how he doesnt stand a chance with women

@5zeds yes he does go to university and is in his final year, he also works and does have a few work collegues of the opposite sex that he is friends with. I even ran into one girl who He works with and according to her she said that hes a lovely lad.

Even his brother says that when he is outside he is a completly different person and doesnt give off any negative vibes.

I do plan on taking him to a therapist/CBT and although Its all good improving yourself on the outside but I really do think its his inside that needs fixed. He does seem to take better care of his appearancr than most men and doesnt have any addictions, Is hard working etc so those are good traits to have but I think he belives that all women want a man who looks like a supermodel.

I do understand because looks are important to a certain degree lets be real but People do also become more attractive when you get to know them.

And also, if you want a family then expect your wife to eventually put on some weight. I even told him this although he did say that he understands that and thats not a problem for him

Hallmarks of a narcissist or sociopath. He needs help beyond the reassurance and guidance you can provide OP.

Um, he's 24. Shouldn't he be taking himself to a therapist?

Has he got any female friends that could actually show him the female’s side of Tinder? I met my partner on there and make and female experiences at every different.

Guys have about 10-20 people matches/ talking to max, unless they’re a perfect 10…. Even us average girls have HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of matches, messages, chase messages, abuse when we don’t reply etc it’s very stressful from the other end and when guys actually does see it they’re like “woah ok I understand”.

Could he go on a different site maybe like bumble? They seem to be a bit more chilled and easier to communicate from the girls side xxx

Sounds like he needs a moral code and a decent male role model.

Nonsense. Hallmarks of an immature young man who has grown up under the appearance-obsessed shadow of social media, and has had his first year of uni ruined by lockdown, which is when most students get a chance for a few drunken snogs and unsuitable dates before they calm down and meet someone they connect with.

He needs to give himself a chance, go on a few dates from OLD even if they don't develop, and get chatting with a girl, not with lots of cheesy lines, but his real self.

Also do you drink? Why don’t you go out for cocktails with him one evening and make him go to the bar so he can get the chance to practice a few minutes of small talk xxx

@goldfinchonthelawn Agreed, didn’t think do that they all would have been out drinking and socialising. Ugh heartbreaking xxx

WallaceAnderland Completely agree.
Does he have siblings OP? In particular a sister? He needs to stop seeing women as objects and relate to some as real people. As his DM you need to explain this to him in no uncertain terms. You are naturally sympathetic to him but it sounds as though you risk endorsing his objectification of female people, and this will escalate without intervention. Does he have a male role model in his life? Please find one for him to talk to, and do so yourself.

He is a young 20s male with hormones flooding his body. There are so many confusing, evil and yet convincing online groups that prey on males like him.

I would try and question him about why he has come to these current conclusions. To question the origins and motivations of others online. To ask himself if he wants a partner that is only concerned about appearances.

I would also check yourself, he is your son, you are naturally biased, is he as balanced as you think? Lots to unload but at least he has you and his family around checking in on him.

Can he go out clubbing instead of tinder?

There has to be a vibe he’s giving out that’s putting people off, because the looks, taking care of himself, intelligence is what a lot of women look for in a man generally. I don’t think his issue is looks based but maybe he’s giving off weird vibes in the dating world? First impressions on things like Tinder are key, so a profile pic where he looks friendly and approachable, and a profile that doesn’t state DONT SWIPE IF YOURE FAT and come across as shallow because that will even put the thin people off. Maybe he’s coming across as a bit of a mummy’s boy too? That’s off putting for most women.

Yes, I’ve read exactly this thread before. The last one was zapped.

That doesn't sound like a huge incel rant, that sounds like an outburst from a young man who has no self esteem and compares himself to the rest of his peers and thinks he will never match up. Worrying about him going down the incel rabbit hole is a bit misguided when he is telling you clearly that he is not doing well (At all well - his mental health is a concern). I would be helping him get set up with a counsellor and to encourage him to focus on himself just now, he is at risk of getting into a poor relationship, just to have one at all.

He is 24, and a lot of people on mumsnet think that is old enough to sort themselves out. But I disagree, he is telling you a lot of what he is thinking - this is good, and you are in the position to help him through this.

The university might have clubs and groups that he should look into joining in his final year. Casting his net wider for people who accept him, and who don't judge him, might be helpful.

Thank you, I knew I'd seen it before.

Have you asked this question before?
Could swear I’ve seen it.

@IrisVersicolor Why was it zapped?

This
Tell him to look around at the fat, bald men, the ones with 3 teeth, the ones with facial disfigurement or disabilities. Look at them and look at their lovely partners. Why are they together? Love, respect, mutual support. He want's a prostitute who'll cook his dinner and worship him. He could try the 'mail order' route but these women are not stupid and know their worth, they won't put up with him for long will they?

My cousin is 28 stone and was bald at 19, totally bald. He has a beautiful wife and 4 lovely kids because he shares a hobby with her (D&D) and took time to get to know her and to allow her to see who he was. Your son can learn a lot from those he derides and insults.

He comes across as a bit obsessed with his looks, and that will put many women off, even if they are quite into their own appearance. Most women want to be the pretty one in the relationship.

He also sounds like he is getting more gratification out of complaining about women than actually putting in any effort to find one. As a university student, he has so many opportunities to meet young single women that doesn't involve online dating.

You don't know what he is actually saying to the women that he is meeting or messaging. Some young men can be fairly horrible and I think increasingly women are wising up to that and giving them a hard swerve at any sign of it.

But at his age to even be talking about mail order brides is extremely cynical. The reason most men go down that route is, as I'm sure you know, because most of these women come from poor countries or repressive regimes which limit female opportunities for work, which means they have no option to get out of poverty other than by marrying a western man. Often one that they barely know.

LocalHobo Sounds like he needs a moral code and a decent male role model.

I agree with this.

Hes watching andrew tate

Of course you can’t take him to a therapist to get him “fixed” because you don’t like his attitude

This, in spades.

I have met many single men online who appear good on paper - but their anger seeps out their pores.

I know one surgeon, very handsome and has so much going for him. He is late 30s - he is angry. Very angry. Which results in behaviour that comes off as controlling and manipulative. He cannot get a woman to stick around for more than a few weeks as woman just will not tolerate it any more. When you meet him on a platonic and friendship level he is lovely and makes a great friend. I think until he softens himself and makes himself more vulnearable he is going to continue the cycle. He critics womans weight to their faces - He has told me he asks woman early on 'how often they go the gym' and he told one 'I thought you said you would not eat humus again as its making you fat'. He had no idea that this would put woman off as he thought his muscles and career would counter balance. He was so in his ego he didnt think to even ask for advice until a very nice woman (with a lovely reputation I have known her 10 years) texted him to dump him and he just couldnt believe it. He had no idea his games, negging and unavailability was undesirable.

You sound like a lovely mum. I would approach the anger issue with him as he sounds angry. I dont think he is a narcissist or a sociopath - he just needs some love and direction and thankfully he is young enough in his dating career it can be totally changed ❤️🥺

He sounds like a real catch op. I cannot for the life of me understand why women are not queuing up to ‘get’ with him🤔

@Username50201

What I would do is contact some young mens mental health charities in your area, who may be able to help with companionship and helping him find different ways to see his problems. I would also talk to your GP.

You do need to take it seriously. He is locked within himself and has stopped seeing himself or women as human beings.

When people do this they can get caught up in social isolation and declining mental health for life.

Lack of confidence is not attractive. He needs to like himself before anyone is romantically interested in him. He seems to have a lot of self hatred which is very sad. He does need some input and CBT could be a start

I think other posters most be reading something different to me because I don't see anything in your posts where he has denigrated or attacked women - more that he has turned in on himself and considers that he is inadequate. I don't think he fits the Incel description yet as he doesn't seem to be a raging misogynist, but you are right that he could be radicalised in that direction if his feelings of rejection and lack of self worth aren't tackled proactively and constructively