Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I think I am being completely head ducked

178 replies

Thingsneedtochange000 · 28/08/2022 22:34

Please tell me what you think of this kind of behaviour.

Last day of holiday with boyfriend. He is 50 I am 40. We are having a great time, out for lunch, by the beach, we have two separate flights to catch in the evening. We’ve spent four days together no problems.

we finish a bottle of wine at lunch, feeling a bit tipsy, I ask him to kiss me. Just a kiss on the lips not a snog. He says no. Okay. We go to the beach, hang out, laugh some more, swim in the sea. Literally leaning against each other, holding hands, making jokes. I ask him again to give me a kiss on the lips. Just a peck. He says no again. It becomes a bit of a joke. Me begging and him refusing, although I really did want to just be able to kiss him on the lips.

As we are waiting for the taxi and getting into the taxi to go to the airport the joke continues. I said please now we are about to go our separate ways I just want you to kiss me. He was very assertive, the tone completely changed and said “no sorry I really don’t want to.” I asked why. He said I just don’t want to and I have a right to not do something i don’t want to do.”

I am ashamed to say I cried because it was the last time I would see him for a while and he was talking to me as if I was forcing myself on him and he was some kind of victim of my sexual advances (bear in mind this is a three year long, emotional and sexual relationship we are in.)

as soon as I started crying (I was also a bit pissed) he sat back and said “my god, you are so pathetic.” This made me feel 100x worse I said why, why won’t you kiss me? Why is that pathetic we have done it thousands of times before? He said it’s completely pathetic I shouldn’t have to explain why.

I then got out of the taxi and stormed off with my bag and caught another taxi to the airport. He sent a series of texts saying again how my reaction is pathetic then told me he was turning off his phone and would not be checking messages. I got on the plane crying. And the same thing happens every time (the same thing but different has happened before,) I start to panic that I have done something stupid, that actually i am an awful, chaotic crazy person, who cannot respect other people’s boundaries and that I have fallen I to the trap of his stereotype of me. As this crazy, unhinged person who loses it and storms off over something small. So I send a view texts apologising for over reacting and saying how sorry I am and how I will respect his boundaries in the future. This is so confusing to me because I don’t feel I crossed his boundaries, just wanted something we normally do in the course of our relationship.

this is increasingly happening in our relationship. He will take a stand over something or over a principle. Something we usually do as matter or course or have done for several years already: like kissing, holding hands, talking about a certain topic. He will suddenly act like I am crossing a boundary and become formal with me , almost like he wants to see my reaction. The jarring nature of jovial and loving to formal, cold and spontaneous boundaries catches me off guard and I find it very upsetting and will often cry or beg him to tell me why he has suddenly become like that. He then has carte Blanche to say I am over emotional, over sensitive, getting upset over nothing. It’s just a boundary why can’t I respect that? Have I ever heard of #meetoo? He is a person who wants to respect his own principles and live by them. Why can’t I respect that?

why does he do this?

I am walking on eggshells, waiting for the next surprise or boundary, starting to fear getting it wrong. It has also created a physiological sense of heightened anxiety in me where I feel like I could lose him any second and I feel desperate to keep him. The time before when this happened, he blocked me on his phone for four days. It was hell and it was because I had caught him Out in a small white lie about his work. I wanted to understand why he did not tell the truth and was asking him gently. He accused me of being abusive and systematically abusing him over years.

please help what is going on?

OP posts:
KettrickenSmiled · 29/08/2022 10:11

girlmom21 · 29/08/2022 09:01

I actually completely agree. If the OP had said he'd been harassing her for kisses and she didn't want to and his insistence had put her off kissing him completely everyone would tell her to LTB.

FFS

It's not about kissing/not kissing on one day.
It's about the fact that this guy behaves similarly all the time - so much so that OP is walking on eggshells.

Are you really so ignorant about how coercive control works that you are unable to read OP's very clear description of a pattern of manipulation, mind games & undermining - & see what is really going on here?

SunnyD44 · 29/08/2022 10:14

I think you’re missing the point.

The kiss is simply an example of his controlling behaviour. Surely you must be able to see there’s a pattern of behaviour with this cruel and sadistic man?

No I get what you’re saying and I said right from the start that this relationship needs to end.

But there is no way that OP or anyone else can place blame on DP in this circumstance.

Posters are saying he should have kissed her or explained why he didn’t want to (which is not ok) and completely ignoring the fact that it was her that was completely in the wrong.

I genuinely don’t believe anyone would stick up for the DP if this was a reverse.

Can you imagine a man being drunk and keeping on at his partner to kiss him and then storming off in public and crying because he didn’t get what he wants?

There may be other examples of him being abusive, but this isn’t one of them.

SunnyD44 · 29/08/2022 10:16

It's not about kissing/not kissing on one day.
It's about the fact that this guy behaves similarly all the time - so much so that OP is walking on eggshells.

How do you know that though?

OP has tried to play the victim in a scenario that is 100% her fault.

So how can you possibly infer that in other scenarios it must be him that’s the problem.

KettrickenSmiled · 29/08/2022 10:18

How do you know that though?

By reading the words OP wrote. It's not hard, if you're not wedded to a false premise of victim-blaming.

GreenManalishi · 29/08/2022 10:20

Nasty bastard. It' doesn't matter why he's like this and you'll send yourself mad trying to work it out. Get rid asap.

The minute you find yourself walking on eggshells, get out of there. He's had three years to mess with your head so you might need some support to extract yourself. Tell your trusted family members and friends the truth about how you feel and what has been going on. Don't hide things or spin it to make him and your relationship look good. When you hear yourself making excuses for his behaviour or blaming yourself for being too sensitive, or overreacting, or bringing it on yourself.... you're not. Time to get away from him.

badhappening · 29/08/2022 10:20

Yes this man is a head-fuck.

Why on god’s earth do you allow someone to put you through this and at 40!??

To be blunt and with the greatest respect you do sound very weak and full of stupid excuses why you can’t bin him.

You need to man up and get rid of him. There are lots of ways to do this with grace so you don’t look like the crazy one (as you say).
.

FinallyHere · 29/08/2022 10:26

*why does he do this?

I am walking on eggshells*

That's why, it keeps you walking on eggshells and all the power with him.

Well done for getting your own taxi. Your instinct was correct, you need your own life separate from him. In your place, I would never contact him again, just block him. Write off anything you have left at his place.

Get on with building a better life

You may think that people judge you as the 'crazy' one. That is just part of his many different ways to control you. Trust that sensible people will see through him just as you have done.

If one of your reasons to not break up with someone, is that they will behave badly, then it really, really is time to break up. All the very best.

And yes, some therapy, too.

SunnyD44 · 29/08/2022 10:28

By reading the words OP wrote. It's not hard, if you're not wedded to a false premise of victim-blaming.

@KettrickenSmiled I’m not victim blaming.

Can you honestly admit that OP was wrong in this scenario?

Or are you one of the posters who come in threads just to say that OP can’t do any wrong.

honeylulu · 29/08/2022 10:29

What seems to be going on here is that this man is always on the alert for ways to show you he is the boss and you are his inferior. I get what others are saying in terms that "he should not have to kiss if he doesn't want to" and would normally agree but I don't think that is what is going on here.

You both seemed to be having a lovely affectionate time. You suggested a kiss as the mood/moment seemed perfect but he spotted an opportunity to teach you one of his superiority lessons and refused. Firstly to show you that you don't get what you want from him. Secondly because it would hurt/slight/confuse you and make you anxious to please him and be restored in his eyes to desirable status.

Unfortunately you played right into his hands by asking and then begging for a kiss, not once but twice, which he delighted in rejecting as it gave him the opportunity to tell you how "pathetic" and desperate you are (i.e. inferior) to want a kiss from his superior self.

Please get rid of him. You aren't losing anything special. You will be escaping from being the tortured mouse in his horrid little cat and mouse game. The lovely side of him isn't real, he fakes it just long enough to keep you reeled in for another dose of his sadism.

He sounds like a sociopath.

bloodyunicorns · 29/08/2022 10:30

Yuk. Acting like this at 50?? He sounds awful.

Bin him calmly and politely, then go total grey rock. Block him. Tell him you're bored with his behaviour, you deserve better.

He clearly likes seeing you beg and cry so don't. Don't give him the satisfaction.

He's immature, abusive and a twat. You can do better.

Musti · 29/08/2022 10:30

He’s pathetic and enjoying messing with your head.

2catsandhappy · 29/08/2022 10:38

You have been given good advice here. I think @honeylulu has summed it up best.
Change his name to headduck in your phone, re-connect with friends, do things that you enjoy. When he gets in touch, if you feel you must reply, a thumbs up emoji works well. If he turns nasty, report him to the police.

PastMidnight · 29/08/2022 10:43

SunnyD44 · 29/08/2022 10:14

I think you’re missing the point.

The kiss is simply an example of his controlling behaviour. Surely you must be able to see there’s a pattern of behaviour with this cruel and sadistic man?

No I get what you’re saying and I said right from the start that this relationship needs to end.

But there is no way that OP or anyone else can place blame on DP in this circumstance.

Posters are saying he should have kissed her or explained why he didn’t want to (which is not ok) and completely ignoring the fact that it was her that was completely in the wrong.

I genuinely don’t believe anyone would stick up for the DP if this was a reverse.

Can you imagine a man being drunk and keeping on at his partner to kiss him and then storming off in public and crying because he didn’t get what he wants?

There may be other examples of him being abusive, but this isn’t one of them.

"Can you imagine a man being drunk and keeping on at his partner to kiss him and then storming off in public and crying because he didn’t get what he wants?"

She wasn't drunk, and she explains how it ostensibly started off as a 'joke'.

I'd stop digging if I were you.

OP: as others have said, you've received some amazing advice here. Ignore the minority of thinly veiled personal attacks.

SunnyD44 · 29/08/2022 10:48

She wasn't drunk, and she explains how it ostensibly started off as a 'joke'.

@PastMidnight OP said she was drunk.

And she thought it was a joke but he obviously didn’t which is why he had to sternly tell her to stop when she kept on which resulted in her storming off and crying.

girlmom21 · 29/08/2022 10:54

@KettrickenSmiled I'm not saying he's not dick, but the kisses thing is wrong

KettrickenSmiled · 29/08/2022 10:59

SunnyD44 · 29/08/2022 10:28

By reading the words OP wrote. It's not hard, if you're not wedded to a false premise of victim-blaming.

@KettrickenSmiled I’m not victim blaming.

Can you honestly admit that OP was wrong in this scenario?

Or are you one of the posters who come in threads just to say that OP can’t do any wrong.

Clearly MNHQ as well as all but 2 PP here agree @SunnyD44 as your victim blaming post has now been deleted.

You need to spend some time reading up about domestic abuse & coercive control before you end up doing it to somebody else.

For OP's sake - can you drop your hobby horse now, & leave people with experience & constructive advice to it? Oh, & don't @ me again, I don't want to deal with you. Thanks.

PastMidnight · 29/08/2022 11:02

SunnyD44 · 29/08/2022 10:48

She wasn't drunk, and she explains how it ostensibly started off as a 'joke'.

@PastMidnight OP said she was drunk.

And she thought it was a joke but he obviously didn’t which is why he had to sternly tell her to stop when she kept on which resulted in her storming off and crying.

Sigh.

No, she tried to make light of it to reduce the discomfort.

But I can't give you lessons on empathy so I'll leave it there.

SquirrelSoShiny · 29/08/2022 11:04

honeylulu · 29/08/2022 10:29

What seems to be going on here is that this man is always on the alert for ways to show you he is the boss and you are his inferior. I get what others are saying in terms that "he should not have to kiss if he doesn't want to" and would normally agree but I don't think that is what is going on here.

You both seemed to be having a lovely affectionate time. You suggested a kiss as the mood/moment seemed perfect but he spotted an opportunity to teach you one of his superiority lessons and refused. Firstly to show you that you don't get what you want from him. Secondly because it would hurt/slight/confuse you and make you anxious to please him and be restored in his eyes to desirable status.

Unfortunately you played right into his hands by asking and then begging for a kiss, not once but twice, which he delighted in rejecting as it gave him the opportunity to tell you how "pathetic" and desperate you are (i.e. inferior) to want a kiss from his superior self.

Please get rid of him. You aren't losing anything special. You will be escaping from being the tortured mouse in his horrid little cat and mouse game. The lovely side of him isn't real, he fakes it just long enough to keep you reeled in for another dose of his sadism.

He sounds like a sociopath.

Agree with this wholeheartedly. I think it captures the dynamic nicely.

Once you have experienced one of these characters it leaves a scar that makes them easier to spot next time unless they're the more covert 'I'm the victim here' kind.

SunnyD44 · 29/08/2022 11:17

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SunnyD44 · 29/08/2022 11:20

No, she tried to make light of it to reduce the discomfort.

@PastMidnight So you agree that it was her making it into a joke?

And if she felt discomfort why did she keep trying?

Stop trying to twist OPs words to fit your own narrative.

knickersniff · 29/08/2022 11:28

OP WTF , do you really want this for yourself . It doesn't matter how interlinked you feel you are really that's just excuses . Bin him and enjoy being the one who did it .

BeenToldComputerSaysNo · 29/08/2022 11:35

Yes, he is messing with your head. You are walking on eggshells. He blocks attempts to talk about issues. He moves the goalposts. He sounds cruel. Move on. It will be hard, but will get easier. Find 'you' again. He sounds abusive to me, but whatever label you want to put on it, it's not healthy for you. Good luck.

Sandra1984 · 29/08/2022 11:41

You’re dating a narcissistic with psychopathic tendencies. This is all about control, having control over you, testing your boundaries and seeing how far he can push it. Basically he’s slowly grooming you. And he’s winning.

You’re going to need a lot of therapy if you stay with this man.

Turv · 29/08/2022 11:49

Never apologise for your reaction to a situation you didn’t cause. He didn’t want to kiss you. He upset you. You walk on eggshells. You are trying to please him above your own needs. I’m not going to critique his behaviour as it is your interpretation that matters. He isn’t making you happy. He isn’t cherishing you in the way you want/deserve. You are required to ask for affection and that isn’t healthy for you. You sound like very different people. I’m sorry, you won’t change him and have no right to. Hanging your behaviour and your personality in an attempt to make him happy is concerning. You are requiring so much emotional support from this man that you are not getting. That isn’t your fault or his. He isn’t the man for you so I really don’t understand why you are allowing this to happen. I wonder whether you are scared of being on your own? Getting rid of him is maybe more a reflection of you than him. I think you have low self esteem and have lost sight of your worth. We all react differently to situations and your reaction will be different to others. Take a breath, read the comments and make the right decision for you. I personally think you need out of the relationship and quick before you allow him to shatter any confidence you have left.

feistyoneyouare · 29/08/2022 11:52

OP, ignore the victim blaming on this thread. Your bf is engaging in a really nasty and messed-up psychological game here, he's using so many classic abuser tactics, and this is going to wreck your mental health if you stay. Goading you to get a reaction and then shaming you for that reaction? Just ugh. I've had that done to me and it's frightening how easily you can lose your perspective and sense of self if you stay.

I think you should dump and block him right away. He's likely to continue the blame-shifting and headf*ckery if you allow him to continue any kind of dialogue.