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Original poster

is University education really overrated?

242 replies

lovethehighlands · 18/08/2022 22:05

a relative came over just to brag how good her son did and the uni he's got and he's going to become some high flying medical engineer or something.

i simply said "my OH is a master carpenter skills he picked up from his family members and helping mates out and we still live comfortably and he did a NVQ at trade colleague"

my OH is in so much in demand as a carpenter/joiner that some people have to wait 3-4 months before they are seen to. lot of the house he's done himself.

surely people who go to University and college are just getting a crappy deal and fools? FIFTY GRAND debt!

why can't kids just become carpenters, plumbers, locksmiths, electricians etc where the money is!

i know people who went university in medical, teaching and they live the same as us. we have a house, we go on holidays, drive a nice car and have a great social life. (although OH is in depression which i've posted but pre covid he did martial arts)

so whats so special about University?

OP posts:
Original poster
lovethehighlands · 19/08/2022 20:02

TooHot2022 · 19/08/2022 13:36

You sounds very bitter OP Hmm
Do you have an issue with people who have chosen to get higher educational qualifications than you and your family? (You shouldn't, btw, but that's how it comes across).
As you said yourself, a lot of tradespeople learn on the job from their family. What this means in reality is that they often don't leave home, or the community they grew up in.

Going away to university, living away from home, being independent, meeting all sorts of people from all over the world etc is a hugely enriching experience for a lot of students. It's a chance for them to work out what they believe, what they stand for, who they really are! Often it can involve living and studying in another country, or taking a work experience year out - both of which provide further independence and experience.

We know local families where the kids are learning the same trade as their parents (building, brewing, hair & beauty) and they're still living at home, in the same town, going to the same pubs they went to when they turned 18.

Your comments about wasting £50k show that you don't understand the student loans system. Many students will never end up paying their loan off, and those that do will have secured high-paying jobs that mean it isn't a problem.

going away travelling? my OH's example he is also travels to different cities for jobs, nights out, breaks.

we have also met people from different backgrounds, races, religions. we've both been thailand, Turkey and few other places outside Europe.

what does university have to do with this ? We are planning a big trip across America in about 5 years. basically i'm saying we've also met people from all over and not just university types.

OP posts:
Pieceofpurplesky · 19/08/2022 20:10

@ImJustMadAboutSaffron I didn't do Magaluf but I did Kavos! And university.

I don't think you were talking to me when you said you could do my job with your hand tied behind you back as I hadn't said what I did (fwiw high school teacher in a tough school).

My point was the OP said that Magaluf was an experience and university wasn't.

LuluBlakey1 · 19/08/2022 20:14

You sound as if you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder.

Some people benefit from going to university and some don't. University isn't all about jobs; there is other value in education. It teaches skills which are very useful in many different areas of life- personal and professional- many if which are transferable across different careers which allows people flexibility.

We need well-qualified, highly-skilled tradespeople. They deserve good salaries and respect too. There are far too many poorly-skilled, rip-off merchants around at the minute and far too few genuinely highly-skilled people. The country needs many more and we should be training them over years with proper apprenticeships, attached to those already highly-skilled so they can learn from them.

Some people are much more suited to learning a trade and some to academic routes. Some might be good at both and have a choice. One isn't better than the other.

I'm not sure why you are sounding so bitter and angry about all of this but you are.

WarmWinterSun · 19/08/2022 20:19

my university experience is central to the person that I am today. I studied arts initially and the course opened my eyes up to a critical way of thinking that was completely new to me. I went on to study further and obtain professional qualifications. My education has provided me with secure and well paid employment and a confidence that I had lacked. I really valued it and studied really hard. I do see the world differently than I had before university. I also completely agree that it is nor for everyone and I think a lot of people are wasting their time and money on pointless university degrees. But for me it was absolutely the right choice.

Lemonblossom · 19/08/2022 20:20

It is ironic that with such a massive chip on your shoulder about higher education you’re going to work in a law firm. Honestly you’d struggle to find a more “superior” group of people. Most of us are defined by our intellectual ability. Perhaps more so than any other profession.

calmlakes · 19/08/2022 20:25

no i won't be doing their ironing

I'm going to give you 9/10 for this.
It is skilled work.

brookstar · 19/08/2022 20:29

why can't kids just become carpenters, plumbers, locksmiths, electricians etc where the money is!

What if kids don't want to do any of these things?
This is why good careers guidance is vital...if only we had a government willing to invest in that!!

brookstar · 19/08/2022 20:31

What's so special about uni - well if you want to be an engineer/doctor/dentist/nurse/social worker/scientist etc it's pretty vital!

Exactly!!
Good luck trying to get into these careers without a degree

Cherchezlaspice · 19/08/2022 20:35

lovethehighlands · 19/08/2022 19:58

all very true but why do we have more than some of these people hmm?

teachers don't get paid much are worked into the ground,
consultants, doctors are taxed up to their eyeballs.

and you do know some kids go to university just for the lifestyle of getting away from their parents and have a piss up each evening without having to wake up their parents at 4am so they can open the front door.

what i'm trying to say is that some degrees are just money making scams to make people think they've become more clever or something, they end up with huge fees which they'll never pay off.

Show quote history

Do you ‘have more’ then the solicitors you’re going to be fetching and filing for? That seems highly unlikely.

Some teachers are extremely well paid, some aren’t. Either way, the fact remains that you need them and you’d be stuffed without them.

Consultants are ‘taxed up to their eyebrows’ because they earn a lot of money and pay higher rate tax. If your allegedly successful husband isn’t paying higher rate tax, he’s either not very successful or a tax dodger.

Additionally, as has been pointed out multiple times, earning potential isn’t the sole reason people go to university. The fact that you think it is honestly says more about you than people who go to uni.

If you’d said ‘some degrees are just money making scams’, then this would have been an entirely different thread. You didn’t. You derided university education as a whole. This was deeply ignorant of you, as has been amply demonstrated on this thread.

BigFatLiar · 19/08/2022 20:37

In Ye Olde Days you could get a job as a technician in a lab straight out of school and do day release or block release for ONC and HNC followed by professional exams that equated to upper honours.

MissMaple82 · 19/08/2022 20:46

But why can't people go to uni and become a professional and be proud of that? Sounds like jealousy to me.

Kite22 · 19/08/2022 22:44

bruffin · 19/08/2022 14:56

My DD is on £30 band 5 OT just out of uni

Show quote history

Oh... I was going on this (from CV library)

The average occupational therapist salary is £30,486 within the UK. A newly qualified occupational therapist working in the NHS can expect to earn at least £22,000 Band 5 of the NHS (AfC) Pay Rates.

and assumed someone straight out of university would start on £22 000 ?

lightisnotwhite · 19/08/2022 23:09

I agree with you Op. I really dislike the whole culture around Uni now. It’s so easy get a degree of some description that it’s even more elitist than in my day. It was just the Poly / Uni divide based on the academic snobbery. Now there’s a definite whiff of cool Uni based on who the demographic are rather than what you come away with.

Some jobs need a degree but many brilliant professions are better done on the job. I have friends in marketing, computing, business logistics, sound/ lighting/ stage technicians and many others on more than £50k who didn’t go to Uni.

hoglethotel · 19/08/2022 23:24

@Kite22

I think that's out of date.

The NHS employers website says a band 5 starting salary is 27k in England, rising to 31k in outer London and more for inner London.

www.nhsemployers.org/articles/pay-scales-202223

Kite22 · 19/08/2022 23:39

Fair enough. I don't want to get tied up in the accuracy of one OT's pay.
They were just examples written quickly. The point is, is isn't that common for most 21 yr olds to be starting on £30,000 Smile

AchatAVendre · 20/08/2022 01:33

a relative came over just to brag how good her son did and the uni he's got and he's going to become some high flying medical engineer or something

i simply said "my OH is a master carpenter skills he picked up from his family members and helping mates out and we still live comfortably and he did a NVQ at trade colleague"

my OH is in so much in demand as a carpenter/joiner that some people have to wait 3-4 months before they are seen to. lot of the house he's done himself.
surely people who go to University and college are just getting a crappy deal and fools?

Maybe if you'd gone to university, you wouldn't need to boast about how much money your husband earns and would be able to talk about how much you earn instead? Or at least about what you had done in your life, even if not university, but the other skills you mention?

One of the big benefits of university for women is that it opened up well paying jobs in the vocational professions to them. Its extremely difficult for women to compete in the male dominated fields that you mention - not necessarily because they don't want to/aren't technically minded but because some countries like the UK are backwards and many men already in those roles want to keep their workplaces sexist and non-inclusive.

Some degrees are a waste of money but then again, university does get young people to leave home at 18 and live with their peers and often develop greater social skills due to doing so, never mind the educational benefits simply from having to learn the self discipline to pass exams, etc..

I've also done up and sold many houses with my DH and neither of us are carpenters or tradespeople and we both have jobs that require degrees. DH has just roughcasted an exterior wall and I've just tiled a bathroom. I've actually tiled lots of bathrooms but only in my own homes. Considered using wet wall but decided to stick with what I know I can do. DH puts in kitchen units, I paint interior walls and skirtings, DH hangs doors and does plumbing - tbh so many tradesmen use people that are bad at soldering joints, its best to do them yourself and test for leaks before doing the flooring on top. Most trades really aren't rocket science, albeit doing them fast and well enough to make a living out of them is hard. If trades in this country were regulated in the way that they are in most other European countries then it might be a different matter.

Plastering is the trade I particularly rate - personally consider its a work of art at its best. Its very skilled. And bricklaying.

Original poster
lovethehighlands · 20/08/2022 01:46

AchatAVendre · 20/08/2022 01:33

a relative came over just to brag how good her son did and the uni he's got and he's going to become some high flying medical engineer or something

i simply said "my OH is a master carpenter skills he picked up from his family members and helping mates out and we still live comfortably and he did a NVQ at trade colleague"

my OH is in so much in demand as a carpenter/joiner that some people have to wait 3-4 months before they are seen to. lot of the house he's done himself.
surely people who go to University and college are just getting a crappy deal and fools?

Maybe if you'd gone to university, you wouldn't need to boast about how much money your husband earns and would be able to talk about how much you earn instead? Or at least about what you had done in your life, even if not university, but the other skills you mention?

One of the big benefits of university for women is that it opened up well paying jobs in the vocational professions to them. Its extremely difficult for women to compete in the male dominated fields that you mention - not necessarily because they don't want to/aren't technically minded but because some countries like the UK are backwards and many men already in those roles want to keep their workplaces sexist and non-inclusive.

Some degrees are a waste of money but then again, university does get young people to leave home at 18 and live with their peers and often develop greater social skills due to doing so, never mind the educational benefits simply from having to learn the self discipline to pass exams, etc..

I've also done up and sold many houses with my DH and neither of us are carpenters or tradespeople and we both have jobs that require degrees. DH has just roughcasted an exterior wall and I've just tiled a bathroom. I've actually tiled lots of bathrooms but only in my own homes. Considered using wet wall but decided to stick with what I know I can do. DH puts in kitchen units, I paint interior walls and skirtings, DH hangs doors and does plumbing - tbh so many tradesmen use people that are bad at soldering joints, its best to do them yourself and test for leaks before doing the flooring on top. Most trades really aren't rocket science, albeit doing them fast and well enough to make a living out of them is hard. If trades in this country were regulated in the way that they are in most other European countries then it might be a different matter.

Plastering is the trade I particularly rate - personally consider its a work of art at its best. Its very skilled. And bricklaying.

fully agree with you 100% plastering is indeed an art. its simply not enough to do the course . you need experience doing it before you can leave walls without trawl marks.

whilst you and your hubbie are skilled and get jobs done and being around my OH getting water tight joints and getting the job done is still best done by guys with NVQs. you get loads of cowboys saying they can do things but often fit them really badly or aren't right.
Well done with doing up houses my OH used helps do up houses which people sell of. The quality of work makes all the difference.

OP posts:
PayPennies · 20/08/2022 02:38

lovethehighlands · 19/08/2022 19:37

no i won't be doing their ironing

Show quote history

Brilliant. The OP has quite literally made the case for the rest of us!

HEPolicy · 20/08/2022 02:55

OP you're ignoring cold hard facts. A graduate earns 20%more than a non graduate over their life time. That's about £100k. They won't have paid back all their £50k 'debt' in that time either.

Sure your husband might earn more than some, but doesn't mean he (or you) couldn't have earned more by going to university if that's what you'd wanted.

Out of curiosity, what does he earn as you keep saying your single income household is as well off as teachers etc?

Lemonblossom · 20/08/2022 07:11

To be fair to the op if her DH is pulling in £300 a day that’s almost £80k and so more than many graduates will ever earn.

the fact that trades earn a lot of money (more so given how rife the cash in hand racket is) is not in dispute. What is annoying people on this thread OP is your shocking behaviour towards your poor friend and the irony around the fact that you are not actually the skilled tradesperson you’re talking about. You’re simply being kept by him.

MissTrip82 · 20/08/2022 07:29

Not for me, no.

The intellectual world opened to me by formal education is of tremendous value to me.

The satisfaction I get from using my learning (not just from my degrees, but also ten years post graduate study to specialise) is intense and compensates me in a way a salary cannot.

Formal education is not the only path to this kind of fulfillment, of course. But it’s foolish to have a chip on one’s shoulder about it.

Im curious why your husband’s achievements are the focus here though? My husband’s achievements are many and varied, but they are not mine.

lot123 · 20/08/2022 07:35

The point is, is isn't that common for most 21 yr olds to be starting on £30,000

I distinctly remember my second year (post graduation) salary at 22 being £33,000 (including overtime) at a professional services firm back in 1997.

So I hope most graduate salaries are £30k given that was 25 years ago?

MumofSpud · 20/08/2022 08:04

I agree that Uni is not for everyone and that potential students need to look at the course and ask is it worth the debt?
When I went to Uni (a million years ago, when it was 'free') I just chose what I enjoyed and didn't think about what I would do with the qualification!
But you were just rude to your friend - what did you think she was going to talk about on RESULTS day when she had an18 year old!
Not everyone should go to Uni and not everyone should do a trade!
Also working as an administrator requires a certain (high) level of literacy / grammar skills .... 'just to set you straight'

MsTSwift · 20/08/2022 08:30

You sound dreadful your poor friend! If I told a friend excitedly that my child had done well in their a levels (on the day of the flipping results!) and they started boring on about their husband being a carpenter I would consider you a right bitch and avoid you in future.

Silverswirl · 20/08/2022 08:34

lovethehighlands · 18/08/2022 22:21

i know more people who went to university and work in crappy jobs. i dont get the point of it.

if they had spent 4-5 in trade or marketing they would be earning big bucks at aged 22. i know a 22 year old relative who works in the city (no university) straight out of college.

and he's living the high life and no debt!

Show quote history

I wanted to be a teacher. Generally speaking you need a degree for that so yes, you need to go to uni.
It wasn’t about money.
Also uni is about so so much more than the degree. It’s only if you have been and had a positive experience that you will really understand that.

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