is University education really overrated?

[lovethehighlands]

a relative came over just to brag how good her son did and the uni he's got and he's going to become some high flying medical engineer or something.

i simply said "my OH is a master carpenter skills he picked up from his family members and helping mates out and we still live comfortably and he did a NVQ at trade colleague"

my OH is in so much in demand as a carpenter/joiner that some people have to wait 3-4 months before they are seen to. lot of the house he's done himself.

surely people who go to University and college are just getting a crappy deal and fools? FIFTY GRAND debt!

why can't kids just become carpenters, plumbers, locksmiths, electricians etc where the money is!

i know people who went university in medical, teaching and they live the same as us. we have a house, we go on holidays, drive a nice car and have a great social life. (although OH is in depression which i've posted but pre covid he did martial arts)

so whats so special about University?

I don't think Uni is the be all and end all, so many people think its the only way. The career my DS is going into may not require a degree depending on what area he goes into, the derogatory comments from people who have just had it drummed into them that their kids have to go to uni is quite frustrating.

There are some amazing apprenticeships out there and not all professional careers require a degree. I am an accountant and did all my qualifications whilst working, those with a degree spent 3 years at uni then had to join the course at the same place I was at, I had spent those 3 years gaining valuable experience and also earning money. They also had quite a few gaps in their knowledge from being exempt from the first 3 years of accountancy exams.

Depends on what you study and at which university.

Personally I believe that too many youngsters are told that a degree, any degree, is better then a trade/vocational training. We have kids with crap school grades getting a second rate qualification from third rate institution that is not really a seat of learning but a place to extract as much money out of the customer, sorry I mean student as possible. It should be spelt out to some that getting into huge amounts of debt for a degree in Make-up, Surf Science or Fashion Psychology may not be in their best interest and parents need to be less snobby about their kids not going to uni.

On the flip side those that are more academically minded and get into a decent uni studying a recognised professional degree can look forward to vastly increased earning potential and job security. Throw into the mix making a raft of new friends outside of your normal social circle, enjoyment of living in another city and the chance to get involved in all the sports and clubs available it is a great experience.

'Magaluf experience', 'I set her straight', 'why not use 50K to start a business' ALL have been extremely entertaining after what was a very stressful results day.

You sounds very bitter OP
Do you have an issue with people who have chosen to get higher educational qualifications than you and your family? (You shouldn't, btw, but that's how it comes across).
As you said yourself, a lot of tradespeople learn on the job from their family. What this means in reality is that they often don't leave home, or the community they grew up in.

Going away to university, living away from home, being independent, meeting all sorts of people from all over the world etc is a hugely enriching experience for a lot of students. It's a chance for them to work out what they believe, what they stand for, who they really are! Often it can involve living and studying in another country, or taking a work experience year out - both of which provide further independence and experience.

We know local families where the kids are learning the same trade as their parents (building, brewing, hair & beauty) and they're still living at home, in the same town, going to the same pubs they went to when they turned 18.

Your comments about wasting £50k show that you don't understand the student loans system. Many students will never end up paying their loan off, and those that do will have secured high-paying jobs that mean it isn't a problem.

why can't kids just become carpenters, plumbers, locksmiths, electricians etc where the money is!

Except it's not. I have a lot of respect for tradespeople and you can get paid a decent whack.

My colleagues in investment banking earned seven or eight figure bonuses. I gather from todays's news that PwC partners are each in line for a £1 million average profit share this year. I'd say the average professional services/corporate salary is £300-500k amongst our peers.

Makes the £27k tuition fees seem better value. I'm not knocking people that don't go to university, it's not for everyone. But I wouldn't be discouraging people on the basis of earnings potential either.

no-one I know from university, family or home city is on less than 30,000 immediately after graduation, with most 5-10 years after being in different countries on in excess of 100k.

You must know a very narrow circle of people.
No social worker, paramedic, physio, nurse, teacher, etc etc starts on £30K.
Nor do the overwhelming majority of graduates.

Your story's great, but I'd rather my surgeon be a university graduate than an amazing carpenter. Society needs both types of career tracks and there's often no need to compare.

You dont pay back £50k. You pay back as a tax and then only when you earn over a certain amount and also has an end date.
My DD has no problem getting a job in NHS straight out of uni last year, then wanted to move back to London and got the first job she applied for, they are crying out for OTs
My DS dropped out, but doesnt regret going. He is now doing an apprenticeship degree which he doesnt pay a penny for and earns a good enough wage to buy himself a flat just outside London by himself.

My DD is on £30 band 5 OT just out of uni

Your relative comes over to share happy news and say how proud she is of her son and you 'set her straight'?

I'm glad that you aren't my relative

The value of education is more than money. You can tell the difference between an educated person and an uneducated person just from speaking to them for a few minutes.

@5128gap hit the nail on the head. The polytechnic dream that bears no job at the end thrown at lower class kids in the view of social mobility.

"A recent letter from a hospital consultant included 'ward's' as a plural and mentioned that some results were 'different to' others. His excellence in his role is not diminished by this in the least."

True, I can see that, but a solicitor's office needs precision and clarity in the use of words. I'm a tad worried how she will get on with those solicitors and legal assistants with law degrees when she trashes their university educations and boasts that her hubby makes more money than they do. Hahaha.

A recent letter from a hospital consultant included 'ward's' as a plural and mentioned that some results were 'different to' others. His excellence in his role is not diminished by this in the least."

In fairness, many consultants dictate their letters which are typed up by medical secretaries or auto-systems. Some may check them but I suspect it depends on how busy they are.

My last consultant's letter (from quite a posh hospital in London) used confounded instead of compounded and contained multiple other spelling mistakes. I'm pretty sure most consultants aren't sat at their desk typing the letters up themselves.

@lot123 consultants absolutely do not type up their own letters, they have admin for that. However, even a band 2 admin is expected to produce work that is correct in terms of spelling and grammar.

Mind you, in a previous role I had policy documents through from large NHS organisations which were rife with errors - admin support is one of the things that has been cut back to the bone, so there is no system for getting things checked and proofread.

It depends I have graduated from the OU and it really helped my career prospects and better salary.I have previously done an apprenticeship I childcare and the money was crap.However, my husband is an electrician in London and he earns a bloody good salary but he always dreamed of going to Uni.

surely people who go to University and college are just getting a crappy deal and fools? FIFTY GRAND debt!

I was about to say yanbu (I agree with your general line of thought) but you're wrong here.

Student loans are the best loans you'll take off. Minimum salary before repayment. Cancelled in 30 years. If you're a high earner, it won't be anything to you anyway.

I can't stand people being so uninformed. Yes, £50k debt. Do you not have a mortgage? Not all debt is bad.

@lovethehighlands get your husband to ask the people he does the big jobs for who are under 50 what they do for a living and if they have degrees? They are effectively his employers - without them you don't eat.

Degrees and going to university give you on top of education a broader view of the world and an ability to see things from other people's perspectives. I love people who can make beautiful things but if we all did that you husband would have a lot of competition and fewer customers.

you sound like I'm sitting in a court room. I mentioned the key part of the conversation.

at first like any normal person congratulated her son's success and once she started going on about how much better university people are that's when my mood changed against her.

I will get some training, mainly taking calls, fetching files getting paperwork ready , setting diaries up. i'm sure that's not beyond me.

oops i missed an and in their somewhere didn't I?

But, you’ll be working for solicitors, all of whom will have degrees. That’s your goal, doing their low level administration. In the context of this thread, you get the irony of this, yes?

no i won't be doing their ironing

How very droll.

The fact remains that you’ve been deriding people for getting degrees, but your hopes of employment involve providing low level support for…people with degrees.

Your husband has depression and any treatment or medication he receives is provided by…people with degrees.

Your kids go or will go to school and be taught by…people with degrees.

If all those people had decided to be locksmiths instead, you’d be royally screwed.

it's great that there are so many ways to be successful in life.
Personally I find snobs quite amusing, OP.

It's better if you can quietly smirk at them rather than get wound up by their blinkered views.

all very true but why do we have more than some of these people hmm?

teachers don't get paid much are worked into the ground,
consultants, doctors are taxed up to their eyeballs.

and you do know some kids go to university just for the lifestyle of getting away from their parents and have a piss up each evening without having to wake up their parents at 4am so they can open the front door.

what i'm trying to say is that some degrees are just money making scams to make people think they've become more clever or something, they end up with huge fees which they'll never pay off.