is University education really overrated?

[lovethehighlands]

a relative came over just to brag how good her son did and the uni he's got and he's going to become some high flying medical engineer or something.

i simply said "my OH is a master carpenter skills he picked up from his family members and helping mates out and we still live comfortably and he did a NVQ at trade colleague"

my OH is in so much in demand as a carpenter/joiner that some people have to wait 3-4 months before they are seen to. lot of the house he's done himself.

surely people who go to University and college are just getting a crappy deal and fools? FIFTY GRAND debt!

why can't kids just become carpenters, plumbers, locksmiths, electricians etc where the money is!

i know people who went university in medical, teaching and they live the same as us. we have a house, we go on holidays, drive a nice car and have a great social life. (although OH is in depression which i've posted but pre covid he did martial arts)

so whats so special about University?

On the tap part, (only) as I presume there are many intelligent trades people, I went to university, I'm daft in various areas of knowledge, and to be honest it does not take much to change a tap, as I have very little plumbing training and I fitted a tap the other day.

So, in terms of a career you’ve achieved nothing? You didn’t go to university. You didn’t become a carpenter, plumber or locksmith. Nada. In which case, what exactly gives you any basis to judge the educational and/career paths of anyone else?

There is nothing wrong with being a homemaker. However, if you’re going to have such strong (and, quite frankly, idiotic) opinions about other people’s professional careers, you ought to at least have one of your own.

If you think that trades are the only place "where the money is" you are totally mistaken.

Nowadays to run a trade business you need a mobile phone to work, send pictures via clever satellites and you want your data secure yes?

The geeks shall inherit the earth!

You sound like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder tbh. Are you feeling a bit defensive, I wonder?

I don't think everyone has to go to university. It won't suit everyone, of course - some people are more academic and others are more practical. There are many perfectly valid career choices that don't involve going to university, and of course, you can earn a good living without a degree, though graduates do earn considerably more on average over a lifetime than non-graduates.

Personally, I think the earnings thing is a bit of a red herring. I didn't go to university because I wanted to earn more, and if I had been motivated by money, I could have gone into a much more lucrative career than the one I chose. That wasn't the most important thing for me, though - it was more about fulfilment and job satisfaction.

It might be hard for you to get your head around, because you clearly think education is a waste of time, but many of us value it for its own sake, and for the personal growth and development that comes from it, rather than because we think it will enable us to earn more. It's rather sad to reduce it to such a simple calculation imo - it's about so much more than that.

If it isn't for you (or your DH or your DC), then that's completely fair enough - it's a valid choice to learn a trade or whatever. However, there's no need to belittle the choices that others have made. When you need a doctor in your old age, I expect you'll be rather glad of the fact that they were willing to put themselves through all that stress and get into all that debt for a job that doesn't really pay that well. Luckily for you, some people have motivations that are not just about money!

So your husband brags about his work
You brag about your husband, car and holidays
Your friend brags about her son

You all deserve each other

Enjoy your bragging it's a super personality trait.

In reality there are carpenters / electricians / plumbers etc that are good at their jobs and therefore get well paid . But equally there are carpenters / electricians that are not good at their jobs or are just starting out that don't get well paid.

Similarly there are students that go and study an "in demand" subject at a good University and will get well paid and where the University debt was worth it. But there are students that study less In demands subjects such History of Art through the Italian Renaissance and at a lower ranking "university" where they won't get well paid and the University debt was never worth it.

'you set her straight' ! You sound jealous and resentful. As they say, comparison is the thief of joy.

I have a business degree and a good career that allows me to provide a good life for me and my dc. I enjoy on-going study for the pleasure of furthering my knowledge, regardless of time/cost and earnings potential.. My chosen career suits me.

DS, now a teenager, does not want to go to uni, has his heart set on a specific craft, which, if he does it well, should give him an equally good life.

Each has value, neither is better than the other, we need both. But I would not enjoy what he is planning, and he finds my job dull.

Your relative is proud and excited because her child has achieved the first step on what he wants to do. Can you not just be pleased for them?

Gosh you both sound as exhausting as the other.

I will agree that far too many kids go to university, it's a very expensive exercise that, if youre going with the view of getting a well paid job, is becoming more and more pointless. Higher education ideally shouldn't just be viewed for the job prospects. There's much to be gained from it but few can afford that attitude. Most go with the view it'll definitely land them a good job, which isn't the case anymore.
However, far too many go into trades without adequate levels of maths and English to function as self employed, let alone running their own business. This country fails massively when it comes to careers advice.

I don't think there's much special about a University education. Much of the cohort for the last 25 years have been sold a lie about further education.

50% of people being degree educated? That's a lot of people with a huge amount of debt.

What's the average salary? £30,000? That's not a number that a person can enjoy life on.

People are sold a lie.

A university education is a wonderful thing. To understand and to love your subject, to explore it in depth is something that gives lifelong pleasure and a thirst to know more.

That is completely unrelated to earnings potential, although obviously a doctor or scientist who works to develop ground-breaking research in their field, has a high market value as well.

Sadly universities have been turned into profit making businesses in the last 30 years. Obsession with earnings potential and 'employability' have distracted from the primary purpose of furthering a nation's knowledge.

OP you cannot compare the successful cases in trades with unsuccessful cases for tertiary graduates. I know of builders on 100k , i also know many fresh grads on 100k at 22, by 30 many will earn north of 250k, uni education is essential for these jobs

You set her straight?

It sounds like she wanted to celebrate her son's success but instead of being pleased for her and her son you showed yourself to be jealous and petty.

Further I see you are off to work as as admin for solicitors, who did degrees and earn money in a profession and can therefore afford to employ admin assistants. Are you going to let them know their degrees are pointless too?

I absolutely agree with you. University is about more than getting a job and earning lots of money.

Agree ^

I love that you think Magaluf is an experience and university isn't.
Magaluf (shagaluf) is filled with pissed teens on their first holiday without parents. It's an 'experience' they get every bloody weekend at home, just cheaper booze and sunshine. Am true experience is much deeper than that and university gives students an opportunity to live and breathe their passions.
Great you oh loves his job. I'd be bored shitless carving wood.
What if one of your kids wants to be a doctor or a nurse - will you tell them they can't and make them learn something practical?

You sound bitter and jealous OP, specific roles require degree level thought. Do not try to belittle someone choosing/having chosen to attend university when your OP and clearly you, wouldn't even get a place there. You are using false narratives of peoples education and salaries, no-one I know from university, family or home city is on less than 30,000 immediately after graduation, with most 5-10 years after being in different countries on in excess of 100k. I myself Graduated fairly recently and I am just going for a promotion which will see me on around 36,000 at 24 years old (yes including company car health benefits and free lunches on site, also home/flexible working).

Also so little earn that amount if they are not university educated and are simply lucky, where as university educated individuals got there through hard work.

Your new job wouldn't exist if your boss hadn't gone to university 🙄

Yup. See also: the doctors and medical staff who are supporting her husband with his depression, the pharmaceutical scientists who created any drugs he’s taking, the pharmacists who dispensed them.

OP has kids. Unless she’s homeschooling them (and I really hope not), they’re going to school to be taught by teachers. They were born in a hospital and will go to the doctor when they’re poorly. They’ve hopefully been to see the dentist a few times. I could go on.

She appears to have zero awareness of the extent to which degree educated people are fundamental to her life. But, we don’t need those people. Obviously.

Because I wanted a professional career in medicine and not a life time as a sub on a building site.

It's great that your OH is doing so well at this job! I always have admiration for tradesmen and craftsmen because of their skills and I know it's something I could never do.

Couldn't you have just been happy for her though? Results just came out yesterday and I'm sure she must be so excited and very proud of her son.

I do think that Uni degrees can be a waste of money and time for some, but in general it will be a good experience and also opens up a lot of doors. It is true that many of us end up having to learn on the job anyway, but not having the qualification would have made us ineligible to apply for the job in the first place. And also, depending on which degree you have, you will end up earning significantly more than 50k.

I’m not English and the way class distinctions permeate everything here is really interesting

Me too. Lived there though...

I find it both interesting and rather sad.

It permeates everything.

I'm grateful to have my local GP, solicitor when I need one, but also the hotplumber who comes to sort my blocked drain.

They all have their individual qualities. I'm grateful to all of them.

You don't sound like a very supportive friend.

Was she bragging or was she just thrilled and proud of her son? Why did you feel the need to make it all about you? What a killjoy to rain on her moment of excitement.

Whether you think uni is a good idea or not, you probably should have kept it to yourself.

Also, what do you think would happen to demand for carpenters if everyone studied that? It would be less, and you might find your DH couldn't charge so much and live so comfortably. And what about when you need something engineered... I don't think you've thought this through OP.

There are plenty of unnecessary university courses, and I do support the idea that not everyone needs to go and wrack up that debt, but I think you've not behaved well at all with your friend.

Well I'd have been rubbish at a trade. I'm good at academics. So university was the right path for me. Your DH is different. There's more than one acceptable pathway you know!

Sounds more like you are defensive about it than anything else, couldn't you have just been pleased for your relative?

I advise my kids not to go to uni for the sake of it but if the jobs they want to do are easier to get with a degree, or if like me they enjoy the study, to go for it.