How do women get close to married men

[Nineuser17887]

For various reasons, I think my husband may have had some sort of inappropriate relationship with a woman a few years ago. He denies an affair but he says he was naieve and 'got too close' but in a friendly way, he says.

There has been quite bad fallout from him keeping elements of his relationship secret from me. He never suggested that the reason he was keeping secrets from me was because he thought I would be jealous or suspicious. It was only after I suggested this as a reason to him, that he agreed that it might have been the case. But he acknowledged that this didn't make any sense because I had never shown any signs of being like that previously.

We have reconciled and I choose to accept his explanation but there is one question which bothers me still. What impression he gave her of our life together to make her feel it was ok to carry on a secret relationship with him over a number of years.

He has somewhat dodged my questions concerning this. At least, I can't get much sense from him.

I would be interested to know from anyone who has been close to a married man as to how you think the situation came about and also what impression he gave you or you got about his home life.

I am aware these questions might raise criticisms of OWs. I hope that doesn't happen because I am looking for clarity about how his behaviour might have influenced the situation.

Male friends, not make friends.

I did have a very close male married friend.

I am married, he was a colleague. We did have such a laugh together, he felt like the younger brother I always wanted. He said his wife was great , she was an excellent baker and very house proud, really looked after him. But then one day he said he needed my friendship because she was a bit thick and he needed mental stimulation. It just seemed such an awful thing to say.

@5128gap I agree it’s setting boundaries. Which sounds like an overused words, but in life it seems to grow in importance. Boundaries are trust. We can trust that our families care for us, it gives us security. Without security, we as humans are very vulnerable. I believe this trust in social groups is much more fundamental to our core than the old trope that we are not monogamous. We live in social groups with rules, when those rules are broken, we are weak.

@Akayak I agree with much of what you have said. The areas where I think a bit differently is that it is tied to feeling emasculated by a high achieving woman. My Ex cheated on me when my career was gone, when I was pregnant and caring for our kids. This is common. It is a power thing, possibly linked to control and at times I think a form of emotional abuse. The woman is solely dependent and quite vulnerable without work and bringing up children. It is interesting that this is the time many men cheat. That and the old mid life crisis, with trying to find a younger woman (or man) or just to feel youthful and attractive again.

What's your basis for saying that 50% of men and 40% of women cheat, and that the true figure is probably higher?

A survey by Yougov in 2015 yougov.co.uk/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2015/05/27/one-five-british-adults-admit-affair had the figure at 23% for men and 21% for women. That includes emotional affairs.

I think what that suggests is that men are perfectly capable of keeping their trousers on and aren't as infantile as you suggest.

I agree about setting boundaries early. It's perfectly possible, by doing that, to avoid inadvertent baby steps into an affair, which is what I was unsure about re the book CherryBlossomAutumn quoted.

I think that unless one or both parties are over a certain age, there is likely to be a measure of sexual attraction, at least one way. But it seems to be that the nature of being adult is being able to put that aside, not act on it, essentially just ignore it. We are capable of not acting on these things and saying otherwise, ie, it's their nature or whatever, strikes me as a monstrous sort of excuse.

I remembered it!

’Not just friends’ by Shirley Glass

@Akayak I agree with lots of what you've said- I had an affair in my first marriage and have been on the receiving end of my Hs emotional affair when he was40 ( described by him as a crush that went a bit far)--

In both cases it was getting too close to people we worked with and at times in life when other things were going wrong. Now I have been on the receiving end I regret it hugely in my first marriage- i wouldn't wish the intense hurt and emotional fallout on anyone else my Ex H never seemed to feel the same about me after it came to light and I eventually instigated a split 18 months later I now understand that feeling from my ex totally , as I've never felt 100% the same about my H either in this marriage after his 'crush' came to light

All I can say is when I did have an affair in my 1st marriage (and he was single) I never really discussed my husband at all with the other guy - I did tell him initially I was unhappy in my marriage and that my H didn't treat me that well a lot of the time and carried on his social life as if he was single, (this was all true)- it just felt like a relief to get some actual intelligent conversation, some very thoughtful gifts etc-- the sex aspect was utterly secondary in my case and not very good either-

My friends and myself had a chat one evening about this and concluded most women have affairs because something 'is lacking 'in their lives - be it emotional or physical - or not right-- but men tend to be more opportunistic and open to cheating when nothing seems wrong either sexually or emotionally on the surface.

There's lots of interesting stuff in the Yougov survey:

44% of men who cheat did so with a week colleague (versus 32% for women)

53% of women who cheat cheated with a friend (versus 32% for men)

27% of men who cheat cheated with a stranger versus 9% of women.

77% of women regard sexting as cheating versus 57% of men

50% of women regard an emotional affair as cheating versus 37% of men.

But I think the fundamental statistic is that 80% approx of men and women in relationships haven't cheated, ever. They have not had sex with someone else, or kissed someone, sexted or had an emotional affair. They go about their lives, probably having opposite-sex friends, without diving into bed with them.

It also suggests that women are more likely than men to cheat with their friends, given that the overall cheating rate of women and men is similar. Rather contrary to the general assumption on this thread.

I agree, I think most intelligent women will not marry a man they feel is less intelligent than they are. I do have friends who married “blue collar” guys (men who work with their hands) but these men were just as intelligent in different ways.

I think insecure and superficial men are willing to marry “trophy wives” because they don’t want any competition in the intellectual arena. Out of all of my female friends from over the years, the smartest ones are the ones who have the most trouble with men or have not found one to marry.

In my experience and based on my research here in the US, not many men truly love, respect and admire women enough AND are secure enough to want an equal partner. It’s probably a case of evolution not happening fast enough.

The typical 2nd or 3rd marriage for a man with money is woman who is much younger with not much ambition. The man gets to feel like he is king of the castle and his visual needs (more important for men) are met along with smugness as he parades his possession around. But, at times, these men do miss the partnership and meeting of the minds they had with the “old” wife.

Spousal support is pretty much non-existent here unless the couple is older and the woman never worked (she is usually given support for x number of months until she can find a job). Child support does exist and it is based off income until the child reaches 18. This money is not meant to support the spouse - it’s meant to support the children.

Problem is women cannot have it all. If a woman is a professional and does not want to take a hit in her career, then she needs a nanny to raise children. Women still make less than men in the U.S. for the same careers with same levels of experience and education - think number is in higher 80% range now.

Men are doing more to help with kids (that statement alone is misogynistic) - according to research, but I’ve literally seen most women I know go mental because they have to ASK their husbands to do things for kids/around the house and have trouble letting go of a need for everything to be perfect. Most men do not do these things as “well” as women - lack of attention to detail, etc.

It’s kind of an unsolvable problem. If a woman wants to be her children’s primary care taker, she is screwing herself out of financial freedom and will end up having a harder time leaving if she is unhappy due to financial concerns.

Personally, I can’t imagine staying if I was unhappy, but just had a girl friend decide to stay because she took a second tier career instead of putting work ahead of kids and does not want to have to live in a small apartment or do what it takes to get her career back on track at 47 with 2 college age kids and a “surprise” child who is 5.

I lost a lot of respect for her because she’s complained ad nauseam about her husband’s lack of interest and frustration/anger toward their kids that she says is “effecting them”, but doesn’t want to get to work full time and give up her privileges standard of living to leave. It’s so unfathomable to me. But, unless women pursue their careers first and are willing to have their kids raised by nannies, this is what happens. Also, not many families can afford nannies here.

We were ALL lied to - women cannot have it all.

I am not man bashing - it’s just the way it is. I envy the way most men CAN compartmentalize - it’s why they can excel at certain jobs without being distracted by feelings in toxic work cultures dominated by testosterone. Same can be said for the typical woman’s attention to detail - why women have an advantage in some careers.

As society evolves, life long marriages seem to be more obsolete. I don’t disparage equality because just 50 years ago lots of women had no education, no opportunities and no choices which have them less options to escape unhealthy marriages.

No one wins. I think it comes down to wanting to live alone or with a partner. Loneliness vs. a lot of compromise.

And, all this comes from a hopeless romantic . . . Have a fun weekend.

I had a close friendship with a married male friend over a number of years. We worked together and had loads in common. His wife occasionally came to social events so I had met her. I'm not sure what she would have thought at the time.
From my position, I was young, single and wanted our friendship to be more (to be love) but also knew that I would never cross that line with someone who was married. From his side, he wanted to hang out with me quite a lot and we frequently messaged each other. Feelings for each other were never mentioned and I don't know if he ever did feel anymore for me.
He didn't give much away about his relationship with his wife but he never seemed keen to go home to her. Then something changed and he became a bit distant, not unfriendly but something was going on. Turned out him and his wife were going through infertility, had ivf and finally got pregnant. It then made sense to me. I think he wanted to escape the pressures of ttc and failing, then ivf over several years (he never told me this outrightly). I think I was that person he could escape with.

When he told me they were expecting a baby, I was inwardly heartbroken but happy for them too. In fact, it was the best thing that could have happened to me. It gave me a push to move on with my life and stop pining for a married friend. So got myself out there, dating, and few months later, I met my now husband and have 2dc.

We're all still friends but now it's different, if we see each other, my dh and friend's wife are there too, plus our children.

This happens a lot when men are going through something with their wives. They want to escape so look to other women. Once issue resolved the person they wanted to escape with doesn't matter.
It could be a friend it could be a random female from dating site or bar,club.

I have had many married/partnered men come on to me over the years. I never played a victim or someone who needed rescuing. It was all them doing the chasing. They wanted to so they did. I’m sure there are some women who may chase men regardless of their relationship status, but there are in my experience many more married men that pursue women just because they want to have sex, excitement etc. and they don’t really care who gets hurt. The issue of infidelity is totally on the person in the relationship, who is doing the cheating.

it happened to me, during the pandemic, while working abroad... we all got stuck away from home... we only used to see one another weekly in a group setting and just talk about our families and home... slowly moved to texting - just small things. I didn't realise he had feelings for me - just that he would be happy to see me. I was going through a really rough time with a few very bad relationships and he was NICE to me...
We were alone and messing about - just led to him hugging me - tbh I was a bit shocked. A few days later I was feeling very poorly and ended up being looked after by him.

It was 100% instigated by him and I like and respect him a lot.....

@Undomiel what happened?

I don't think there's a massive mystery people find other people attractive that's human nature. It's the erosion of boundaries or not tackling feelings of being unhappy/bored in marriage (talking from a female perspective). I think a lot of men just shag even if they are perfectly happy.

Some of my best friends are married men. Mostly men I lived with at university and we've stayed friends. We chat about personal stuff but not so much relationships as I'm friendly with their wives.

Another married male friend is a random man I first met at the pub. We've spoken about relationships a lot, mainly on his side, partly as he's 10 years' younger than me and not in my circle of friends so no confidences would ever be shared. We also both share an interest in financial markets (I know, total thriller). He was single when we first met, and now married. I've been married for a long time. He's quite direct and he challenges my perspective. He knows some things I've not shared with other friends but never a romantic angle in any way.

I have some good female friends but I value my male friends equally. I'm also friendly with an ex boyfriend from university days. I've never hidden any friendships from my husband. Equally, he has lots of female friends from work over the years and sees them one on one for lunch and dinner.

I think it's a bit of a shame that there's often an insinuation that men and women can't have platonic friendships. Getting together with one of my male friends would be akin to snogging my brother. It's not on the cards on either side.

@Downunderduchess I have had many married/partnered men come on to me over the years

You trying to tell us that you haven't had many married/partnered women come on to you? I wonder why that is.

You are torturing yourself op. It's a tale as old as time . He lied outrageously probably. He likely said you were, separated, getting a divorce, or that you lead separate lives.
This must be driving you mad.

I’m so sorry you’ve found out that he’s been so unkind about you to his friends and family. IME cheating men do one of two things, rewrite the relationship to the OW to play victim in a loveless marriage, or compartmentalise so much the wife doesn’t get mentioned, because you know discussing wife and kids breaks the ‘true lurve’ spell. I think we can now surmise what your husband did.

I honestly believe (after being cheated on by a man I truly believed could never EVER hurt me, my hero, my one and only 🙄) that we do see our partners on a pedestal and through rose-tinted glasses. It’s so hard when we have to see them as the flawed human beings they are. You’ve had such a shock and I know you’ll be in pain. I expect there’s more to the relationship with this woman than you’ve been led to believe as well. When found out cheats will minimise, and lie, and lie and lie!

I hope you’re ok this morning, just breath and take care of yourself.

@Akayak

It's tangential to this thread, but you may be interested in this podcast by BBC Radio: Why are we having less sex?. The presenter interviews William Costello, an evolutionary psychologist from the University of Austin.

He says that there is a rise in sexlessness among men because women no longer need to settle, and are less pressured to do so. He says men are (in general re relationships) more short term orientated, less picky, want more sex, want more sexual variety, have greater sexual jealousy. He mentions a survey from Tinder that showed that the bottom 80% of men competed for the bottom 20% of women, and the top 78% of women were competing for the top 20% of men.

I don't know how the survey determined the 'top' or 'bottom' as, after all, it takes all sorts to make a world, but regarding the men he did talk about 'economic attractiveness'. Don't know what that means. It sounds like something an incel would come out with. They are in fact an area of his research.

Given that birthrates are plummeting and women are are not as reliant on men economically as they used to be, this isn't surprising and is how things will be increasingly in the future.

Also, romance will never die. Yours, a helpless, fellow romantic.

Interesting. And women are always served this kind of research with a ''see!'' it's all your fault for wanting equality kind of narrative. Like you women have to take the bad, this is the inevitable consequence of wanting to be paid equally. All of the onus on women is to accept that if they gain some rights in the workplace they MUST accept being cast aside, objectified, invisible.

There is no narrative pushed at men to encourage them to think about their personality, their viewpoints, a woman's own rights/needs, how comfortable it is for a woman to be around them!

There's no narrative pushed at men to ask them to consider if they are seeking a partner who has more to offer a potential partner than they have to offer a potential partner.... ie, leagues. I've been shot down for acknowledging that leagues exist by romantics but seriously............. they do. In the past men could capitalise on younger women's poverty and desperation and low self-esteem I guess. Now it's harder for them given that there is a social welfare system, an intent to pay men and women equally, contraception.

I think there is a narrative for men to take on, if the research I mentioned is correct. It's: you're losing your privilege, so you'd better shape up or be left on the sidelines.

Huh? I’m not sure what you mean? Genuinely. I’m talking about my own experience.

@ihatebojo was very vulnerable and fell in love with him...