Married to someone with Asperger's/ASC: support thread 6

[Daftasabroom]

New thread, and as previously:

This thread is for partners seeking to understand the dynamics of their relationship with someone with ASD. It is a support thread, and a safe space to have a bit of a rant. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner. (ASD partners welcome to lurk or pop in, but please don't argue with other posters and tell them they are wrong).

It's interesting to me that you raise the point about lectures as this is what my DC is struggling with at the moment and as a result I am trying to manage this situation too.

DH really struggles to have normal, fun conversations with DC but he loves to educate (lecture) her constantly - what he tries to teach her is usually correct and quite interesting but because his lessons are so frequent she's shut down to it completely and asks me to tell daddy to stop giving her lessons.

It happened again last night and I had to explain again why daddy enjoys to do that and she should be patient and understanding with him.

I do really worry though that their relationship will deteriorate further and further as despite my efforts to keep the peace she's getting to a point she just can't stand him.

Last night when he returned from work she hid behind me in the kitchen and today when I said it was DH who was going to take her to do her sport, not me, she was visibly upset.

It's a really sad situation.

Any advice on how to navigate this with DC would be appreciated!

We went for counselling some years ago with an ASD experienced counsellor. It went ok and managed to resolve one of the problems we had (I think he would only believe a qualified person who said this is wrong, and not me). But other issues we discussed didn't get rectified. The weird thing is I brought up (lack of) sex as an issue and it turned out he'd also mentioned it during his 121 session with the counsellor - said that he wants sex, well that was news to me given the amount of times he rejected me!

He did mention counselling again this year but I wasn't sure it would be worth it.

I won't put it on my kids to "understand" ASC at such a young age.

I'm sorry to say but I tell my DH that it's enough of the lectures and they are too young to appreciate his "wisdom". That he can 'educate' them when either a) they ask him for advice or b) they are ready to absorb all that he has to impart🙄There's a saying that all unsolicited advice is really criticism...

The relationships between DS and DD with DH have wobbled seriously as they've grown up.

No one wants to be spoken down to over and over. We just got back from a week away (the three of us) and DS didn't even look up at DH when he came in to say hello to them. It's because all DH ever does is lecture DS over and over about how to be successful, how much he needs to fight in the world to succeed, how the world is a brutal place and he's fighting against all the kids in China and India on this global stage academically. DH is OBSESSED with academics. It really doesn't help that DS is mostly NT and not blessed with the insane intelligence of DH.

He will NEVER ever be at DH's level, I don't think. He just doesn't have that kind of brain.

We have had huge arguments about the 'lecturing' and that is the exact word I have used to describe DH's endless rants.

he can't have just a normal chat like "Hi son, how was your day at school, what did you get up to?". There has never ever been anything like that. Just chit chat, passing little nuggets of info back and forth building to greater depth of understanding and intimacy (intimacy meaning shared emotional bonding).

My heart breaks for DS.

I do say quite frequently when DH is not around, "yes he's difficult, no he's not easy to be around, yes he does lecture you I know and he does it to me too but he's not a bad person, it's just the way he communicates. He helps keep us stable, pays for our holidays and the nice food we eat, so we must give him some slack. Underneath it all he loves you deeply and he wouldn't stay around if he didn't. He just wants you to do well, that's all"

But I won't tolerate him borderline bullying the kids with lectures. DD now 14 shrieks back at him. She has ASC, much more so than DS so you can imagine, she really won't stand for him telling her what to do or how to live her life. A force of wills there... but she still crumbles at times because obviously parental approval runs very very deep and she wants it. Of course.

@MomentOfCalm maybe this is hitting a bit too close to home but….

i wouldn’t teach your child to listen to their dad even they don’t want to. It’s ok for them to not want to be lectured for hours on end. It’s ok for them to say it’s not the right time.
If anything I’d teach them what @LoveFoolMe does - telling him very factually that yes it’s interesting but not now. Your dc might do well to see you modelling that too.

Thats one thing I’ve learnt from my counselling. How I also try to appease others because somehow their wishes are always more important than my need. And how I avoid conflict to achieve that.
The problem is that DH is incapable of getting the underlying message so it just carries on. Instead being ‘blunt’ (on an NT pov) and telling him NO with an explanation for it works much better.

So adapting to. His needs to be very clear and not ‘subtle’ in my message whilst unlearning to appease but stating my boundaries.
I think it’s a great skill to have tbh.

@BleuNoir The same here. An academically overachieving DH with top grades and numerous degrees.

He's still very disappointed that our DDs don't seem to be as academic as him.

I just want them to be happy and healthy. He thinks they can't be happy unless they're 'successful' academically and career-wise.

I think it's sad that he doesn't seem to value other paths in life.

It happened again last night and I had to explain again why daddy enjoys to do that and she should be patient and understanding with him.
Oh absolutely not! You cannot teach her that her wants and feelings have to defer to others! Agree with @WakingUpDistress that she needs to know she can say 'no I've had enough' !

I don’t understand why some of you don’t just leave your OH if life with them is so difficult.

I think if there was something about me that was so frustrating/challenging that my dh felt the need to join a support network to cope, I’d rather he left me, for both of our sakes.
For him, that he could have a relationship that didn’t feel like constant hard work, and for me, that I could be with someone who a accepted me and loved me as I am.

Yes, thank you both - you're absolutely right! I've just had a chat with him to rein it in! And next time he starts I will act as you say.

Thanks again!

Not an ASC partner tip but one suggested for those who are emotionally neglectful...but it works in a similar way I've found - they recommend not getting into justifying and debating your view point. I find this very frustrating but it does work if you just shut the debate down rather than try and get your point of view heard (so was OP says about 'No'). The frustration goes away when you've been using this approach for a while too.
The other cross over is DARVO. I've found that my ex has this trait in everything how ever big or small. Even something such as 'have you seen x?'. She can't admit wrongdoing or weakness or any perceived failing. This is in part theory of mind and is a social communication issue. It's also linked to her poor mental health. She will go straight to the DARVO. It was only through counselling I saw this. Helped me realise my parents also did this. This has been huge for me. As people pleasing is also about taking the blame too. I am.convinved many of us are in these situations because we have this kind of personality type and is possibly why we've gone into a life like this as have very poor boundaries.

My life..in this description
asdmarriage.com/2022/02/14/why-do-asd-husbands-experience-neurotypical-feelings-as-an-attack/

Because we believe that a unified family unit is better for the children. So we stay for the sake of the children.

I think I can safely speak for nearly all of us to say that if there were not children the relationship would have ended years ago.

For many of us also we have soldiered on and come to accept it. You don’t know what you don’t know. And by now, two decades later, We are worn down. We don’t have the energy to seek new possibilities. We also, many of us have children with ASC. How is that going to land with a new partner? And not least with our children themselves accepting a new partner?

Your response is simplistic.

And through it all, we know our DHs/DWs are not deliberately misunderstanding us. We know they care. We know they love us. We know they don’t want us to leave. We know there is a good side to them and we see that side regularly.

So your understanding of the situation is limited, judging by your response.

@HappyBinosaur

1. I love him.
2. Most of our issues are about parenting. Splitting up wouldn't change that. Assuming 50/50 care. In fact I'd be less able to intervene/moderate/reassure the DC when he's with them if I'm not.

I'd much rather learn how to be a better partner and parent.

I thought all of this for ages. Stay for kids etc etc

But now I'm very glad I'm separate and the kids are too. We all have room to breathe.

Having our thoughts policed and (in my case not even being able to leave one dirty dish in the sink overnight) took an unbearable toll that I'm still recovering from but the Freedom is amazing!

@BleuNoir my question was rather simplistic but I asked it because on MN people repeatedly give the advice that staying together for the children isn’t always a good enough reason to stay together. I wondered whether it’s fair on anyone, the partner with asd, the partner without asd or the children, if there is so much frustration.

My understanding of the situation is actually quite extensive, although I acknowledge that every household will be different and each person’s experience will be different.

@LoveFoolMe @BleuNoir thank you for replying. I’ve been on 2 different sides of this sort of relationship and I was genuinely interested.

@HappyBinosaur for me the reasons I’ve stayed

• because I’ve always known that his behaviour might have been hurtful to me, he never intended to be hurtful (well 90% of the time )
• because some years ago, I had been convinced (see all the groups to support autistic people) it was up to me to make it work be and if it didn’t work it was my fault only fur letting him down
• because of my own upbringing- appeasing and feeling responsible etc…
• Because I couldn’t see the wood fur the trees
• Because my marriage was important to me
• because of the same reasons why women try their best to save their marriage in an NT/NT marriage and seek support on MN!

If it was as easy as ‘no point carrying on if you are at the point of looking for support group to make it work’, we wouldnt be here tbh. Nor would there be a need for the Relationship board.

And tbh the very first point, knowing deep down that it wasn’t intentional, that he has never ever meant to hurt me has been the most important factor.

Several years down the line, well 25 years…, my biggest issue now is probably that these small hurts have been a case if ‘death by a thousand small paper cuts’ and I’m not sure anymore love has survived. Care yes but love…. I don’t know.

@WakingUpDistress that’s so apt. A thousand cuts. We’ve argued away all our love.

We still care for each other, I guess yes we do love each other.

I took of my wedding ring some years ago now. DH didn’t notice. I pointed it out to him but he wasn’t bothered. My emotional needs and support have never been his priority.

as for sex that’s gone too. It’s hard to be intimate with someone who you feel hardly knows you. Who has no time to spend on you.

I never talk about my feelings with DH, my hopes or dreams, my fears etc.

it’s like I’m supposed to function like him which is to never discuss any of this, as he never talks about his future or his feelings either.

if I try to open a conversation about any topic to do with that it gets shut down.

as for MN and staying the children, I find that everyone is eager to throw the towel in and divorce is presented as the best option. But my parents divorced and it was crap. I hated my new blended family. Never got over it. I won’t do that to my kids.

and second and third marriages fail even more than first marriages so I’m very much of the opinion that the grass is not always greener.

if anything the onus I feel is on me to manage my expectations and be grateful for what I do have. It’s certainly not perfect but there have been happy times. Perhaps we hope for an idyllic Disney romance but in all honesty, who has that?

But why not be on your own? Why do you need to stay with someone who is making you miserable because you don't want a blended family.
Another thing to consider is whether you'll stay together once your DC are grown. I think splitting then is also supposed to mess up DC and you'll be significantly older. If you're not looking forward to retirement together then what's the point. Its just existing.

And tbh the very first point, knowing deep down that it wasn’t intentional, that he has never ever meant to hurt me has been the most important factor.

DW does not have a bad bone in her body but she breaks me a little bit more every day.

Yes yes yes, to both these points: it's not intentional, and "death by a thousand cuts". I've been subjected to tiny little cuts for decades, many of them tiny, many of them small, but some bigger than that, so if I've survived until today, I can probably survive until tomorrow, and probably the next day and probably... so I end up staying because there's no noteworthy single event.

If a partner has an affair or if you suffer physical violence from your SO (as two examples) it's obviously a massive trauma cutting into the relationship, and it's maybe easier to make a decision (though of course, some forgive and stay). When everything is so small (but so relentless), it's harder to spot how far I've been eroded, but it sounds like there are a few of us who are now looking back and seeing what damage has been done over the years (I'll say it again: unintentionally). Maybe seeing that chasm between who-I-was-then and who-I-am-now eventually becomes a trigger to make a change?

By "survived until today...", I mean "decided to stay in the marriage until today..."

Yes it's harder to leave without one single event.
When my ex started messing with the DCs heads it was the final straw for me- but I only did that because my own DM messed with mine and it took decades to realise. I didn't want that for my children. No child should have to be an emotional carer for their parents. I know many don't have a choice but I did.
Yes my ex has the dc on her own now. But DC are old enough to tell me and come home it they don't like it so I definitelycouldnt have left sooner. They can tell her if she forgets to feed them. She even forgets bedtime. Ex only has them EOW so it's quite limited contact. They couldn't cope with 50/50 as work still a huge priority and has very limited adulting skills. (Great at buying them unnecessary and overpriced tat which I'd never do!)

I am very much here too.

I've spent our whole relationship counselling him, supporting him and keeping him going (we now have the diagnosis, which has helped make sense of things), but all of those years spent putting him first had left me empty.

Especially when I get soo little in return. He never asks how I am, he's not interested in my opinions or views, no gifts or thoughtfulness. He's obsessed with his job, and that's about it.

That being said, we do have a nice life for the most part. We enjoy each other's company, we laugh, we get on well. We both still fancy each other.

But I still feel lonely. I keep this whole show running (all Life admin, sorting DC, sorting house,cooking, cleaning, arranging, holidays- literally everything), and then I don't get a birthday card, or he doesn't ask how I'm doing (have developed a chronic illness recently and there's is zero support from him).

My dad was similarly when I was growing up (through selfishness, not asd), and I guess I thought it was normal to be emotionally avoidant, disinterested, not get involved with chores unless asked to do something. But it's been a learning curve recently, that marriages can be 50:50!

Reading these threads is just reinforcing what I now know. But is it enough to leave? Especially when it's not their fault?

What great info, thanks for sharing.

This is us. 100% us. And so brilliantly articulated!

asdmarriage.com/2022/02/22/the-harm-of-minimizing-neglect-in-a-neurodiverse-marriage/