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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Married to someone with Asperger's/ASC: support thread 6

975 replies

Daftasabroom · 03/08/2022 11:33

New thread, and as previously:

This thread is for partners seeking to understand the dynamics of their relationship with someone with ASD. It is a support thread, and a safe space to have a bit of a rant. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner. (ASD partners welcome to lurk or pop in, but please don't argue with other posters and tell them they are wrong).

OP posts:
Regretthisfish · 30/10/2022 10:22

schwerl · 30/10/2022 10:13

What great info, thanks for sharing.

This is us. 100% us. And so brilliantly articulated!

asdmarriage.com/2022/02/22/the-harm-of-minimizing-neglect-in-a-neurodiverse-marriage/

Same here. Do people think I should share this with H? He’s recently diagnosed.

schwerl · 30/10/2022 10:25

I was contemplating this, but I think it's too soon for us. I think it would hurt a lot.

The sleeping thing got me. Boy can the man sleep. What is all that about?!

Regretthisfish · 30/10/2022 11:12

Regretthisfish · 30/10/2022 10:22

Same here. Do people think I should share this with H? He’s recently diagnosed.

Actually, I copied the wrong article, I was thinking of the one where the ND partner interprets everything as a criticism.

Thehouseatpoohcorner · 30/10/2022 11:16

Can't seem to access these articles. Can anyone copy and paste them here please if they are relatively short - especially where the ND partner interprets everything as a criticism?

IndigoFlamingo · 30/10/2022 12:36

This reply has been deleted

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IndigoFlamingo · 30/10/2022 12:37

Second half:

Many circumstances contribute to the autistic partner’s perception of criticism when his wife shares her feelings, such as:

Autistic individuals often think in black and white terms. If he is judged as doing something “wrong,” then he feels irredeemably “ALL” wrong in his mind. Holding two opposing thoughts is difficult for the ASD husband. He has difficulty knowing that his strengths and good points still exist – simultaneously – with her disappointment in other aspects of his behavior.

Feeling inherently bad, wrong, unlikeable, etc., is usually very triggering for the ASD spouse. Most autistic individuals have experienced a great deal of bullying in life, especially in childhood. He can perceive his wife’s feelings as her presenting evidence of his innately flawed self. Her dissatisfaction over his behavior is perceived as a rejection of him vs. his actions. (Example: “my behavior is disappointing” vs. “I am disappointing.”)

His poor theory of mind skills (also called “mind-blindness,” or lacking intuitive empathy) present difficulty in imagining her intention in approaching him, or what pain is motivating it. He is consumed by his own engulfing feelings of shame and defensiveness, possibly crowded out by anger. The autistic spouse places value on his intent, and struggles to see that his intention does not minimize the harmful impact upon her.

When the conversation about her feelings is turned upside down, the neurotypical wife is left feeling outraged (and broken-hearted) that she cannot communicate her honest feelings and be heard by her husband, Her feelings that were the original point of the conversation are no longer the focus – she must repair his feelings, accept his perspective of her intent and perhaps be treated to his silence, anger, shutdown or meltdown.

Sometimes, an ASD husband will ask me, “why should I listen to her feelings when they’re really just complaints about me? She just wants to treat me like a punching bag.” I will tell him, “the way that a neurotypical wife solves a problem is to communicate. Her sharing hurt feelings about your behavior in the relationship is an attempt to be understood. She hopes that if you understand her pain, then you will modify your behavior. Bringing her “complaints” directly to you is a hopeful thing, because she is inviting you to help solve the problem, and it also means she believes you are capable of solving it.” This is often a mind-blowing revelation for an ASD spouse, because his experience with hearing negative things about himself is usually in the context of bullies who get a thrill out of hurting him. To realize that his wife is actually trying to problem-solve at heart is helpful and concrete to him. The more abstract concepts that a neurotypical wife wants – of being heard, seen, understood intuitively, and met with remorse – are difficult to convey. But we can start with problem-solving. If he can “see” her need to change the problem behavior and not personalize it as hatred for him – but actually confidence in his potential – then he’s less flooded with anxiety and defensiveness. This helps increase the likelihood of the NT wife having her needs met to a certain degree, instead of not at all.

Thehouseatpoohcorner · 30/10/2022 12:53

Thank you for posting article.

Daftasabroom · 30/10/2022 15:01

Thank you @IndigoFlamingo it works the same for myself and DW. I have to say I find it somewhat sexist that so many of these articles focus on the male being ASC, I know that diagnosis in males is much higher, but ultimately I think that that focus does females with ASCs a disservice.

OP posts:
WakingUpDistress · 30/10/2022 17:14

From the minimising neglect article
The opposite of love is not hate, it is apathy.

Yep… Which explains why that apathy is so hurtful too.

WakingUpDistress · 30/10/2022 17:28

Reading these threads is just reinforcing what I now know. But is it enough to leave? Especially when it's not their fault?

@schwerl ive gone through various phases and this is where I am now.
Whether it’s fault or not doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter that his behaviour is coming for a disability. What matters is that the life I’m living is the life I’m choosing and I’m happy with.
Living with a spouse on the spectrum will always involve some compromises, I’d say more than in an NT/NT marriage. If the compromises you (and I) end up doing are unacceptable then, I’d say you need to separate.

A divorce isn’t about finding fault. It’s not about saying to the other person, it’s your fault because xxxx . You are not good enough etc. That’s the realm of an affair, abuse etc….
in this case, a divorce is the recognition that your needs aren’t met and it is not possible for them to be met within that marriage.
No fault, no excuse, just the acknowledgement your needs can be met.

TomPinch · 30/10/2022 17:40

I think daftasabroom's has a point. I can relate to some of what's in the article but by no means all of it. Despite being the NT partner I'm very much more likely than my DW to be the one who withdraws.

Changemyname1000x · 30/10/2022 18:38

My ex is a woman. I'd say the main differences are a) better masking especially faking social situations b) people just think she's shy or reserved. She's actually not at all and is very controlling but it's hidden as not in an obvious non-masculine way c) she's rubbish at 'mothering' . society expects this to be natural but in her case this was hidden by having me as a wife stepping up/in if she'd been married to a man maybe not so much I think d)she doesn't have any special interests at all.

I've had zero sympathy because everyone thinks she's so shy/quiet/hardworking/meek that i couldn't possibly be under her control. It was only work colleagues who saw me through pandemic that started to reinforce that I wasn't imagining it. Then counselling and so on.

QualifiedDys · 30/10/2022 19:06

@TomPinch I’m the one that withdraws too. That’s what makes it so painful and difficult to articulate. I feel like I’m the one who’s the bad guy because of my own reactions and because DH is not a ‘bad’ guy (apart from when he traumatises DS from time to time, but refuses to believe he’s in the wrong. However, that is but one area of the main problem). Yet even setting blame aside, leaving is not the right thing to do. Not for the foreseeable future. DS adores him and needs both of us. Better that I am at home rather than DS being deprived of a father who for the main part teaches him so much and in my child’s eyes is the ‘fun’ parent. And as for leaving because of the trauma - well I’d rather be around to pick up the pieces then let it happen when DH had access.

One of the books I have read about autism is by Olga Bogdashina and is subtitled ’A View from the Bridge’. It was published in 2006 just about the time when the condition began to be more widely recognised. The aim of the book was to bridge the gaps between autistic individuals and others and help them understand and anticipate each other’s responses and behaviours. But much as I would have liked to have been able to meet my husband halfway along that bridge his behaviours (the thousand paper cuts) have triggered my own responses and back I have retreated to the other side.

My own reactions feel uncannily like those I experienced as a child and teenager when living with my parents. Much of that was due to their inconsistent neglect of me and so many unmet needs that I could barely articulate. But I was perceived by everyone as the ‘bad’ one (including myself) then. They could always point to how much they had done for me. I escaped them when I turned 18 and I felt free to be me. It’s horrible that the same feelings have been triggered so many years down the line and yet this time I feel I cannot leave. I do have some power when he’s at work, and so not available to participate in a relationship anyway.

This thread is enabling me to identify and work through hurts both past and present. I truly believe that sociologically it is important to keep it going,

Daftasabroom · 30/10/2022 19:48

I've just had to walk away from a Scrabble game post family dinner at my parents. I just couldn't take any more of the little jabs and digs. Nobody else notices, and I know she only does it to ease her anxiety, and I know she has absolutely no idea of the damage she does. But she even looked smug that she'd won.

OP posts:
SudocremOnEverything · 30/10/2022 21:10

I’m a bit uncomfortable with lots of the sweeping statements about NT and ASD spouses on that site. But I found this in another post and I do think it’s useful for this thread:

Autism advocacy in our society is thankfully growing each and every day. Neurotypicals do not need advocacy for acceptance in the world at large, but they need support in order to thrive within their intimate relationships to ASD spouses. Both partners in a neurodiverse marriage deserve to have their individual needs and considerations equally prioritized.

On the experiencing a spouse’s feelings as criticism… I’m not sure that my H does experience my feelings as criticism. He’s so certain that I’m wrong (and crazy, and I’m not NT so he can blame it all on my ADHD) that he simply rejects it outright.

My feelings and needs seem to inconvenient to him and he doesn’t want to have to consider them at all. He doesn’t agree, which means I am wrong. And that means he doesn’t need to pay any attention to it.

In fact, he believes himself to be a victim if he has to think about anything but what he wants to do. He’s entirely reasonable and logical and correct. So he should not be ‘controlled’ by me.

And that, of course, is why we are divorcing. If it were simply that he felt anxious and criticised, I could have found ways. Instead, I found that I had to fight to have my basic needs met to any degree. I had to fight, and be cast as the villain, to have my children’s needs met. And I recognised that he would never budge an inch unless I forced it.

I couldn’t live with it.

Daftasabroom · 30/10/2022 21:21

(I hope) on a slightly lighter note; we are watching Barbarians, when I pointed out that DW is prettier and blonder than one of the heroines, DS2 said "and just as badass".

OP posts:
SudocremOnEverything · 30/10/2022 21:39

Daftasabroom · 30/10/2022 21:21

(I hope) on a slightly lighter note; we are watching Barbarians, when I pointed out that DW is prettier and blonder than one of the heroines, DS2 said "and just as badass".

😁

Daftasabroom · 30/10/2022 22:36

Whoa, on episode 4, she's not quite that badass...

OP posts:
timetogetlost · 30/10/2022 22:41

Hello all. Can I ask if it is common for someone with ASD to experience depression? My partner is not diagnosed ASD but has very many traits. He is also severely dyslexic and dyspraxic and suffers with depression and social anxiety. He is going through a bad patch at the moment. Thanks.

Daftasabroom · 30/10/2022 22:52

@timetogetlost it's a bit late for a full answer, but pretty much yes. Take it easy and breathe deep.

OP posts:
BleuNoir · 30/10/2022 23:17

Far more likely to suffer from depression if you have ASC

timetogetlost · 30/10/2022 23:22

Thank you for the replies. I will have a good read of thia thread when I get some time.

GiantLegoHead · 31/10/2022 00:05

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Ahhhh yes deleted as we can't point out the discrepancies between how one protected characteristic and another might be treated, to highlight how unacceptable this ableist bile is.

Still waiting for mumsnet to reinstate the post about disablist threads that they were apparently taking down "temporarily" to have a look at, so they can answer the many disabled people who complained about this thread and many others of similar ilk.

GiantLegoHead · 31/10/2022 00:08

The people confratulating themselves on their toxic ableism here is vomit inducing.

SquirrelSoShiny · 31/10/2022 02:08

schwerl · 30/10/2022 10:13

What great info, thanks for sharing.

This is us. 100% us. And so brilliantly articulated!

asdmarriage.com/2022/02/22/the-harm-of-minimizing-neglect-in-a-neurodiverse-marriage/

God the neglect one resonates so much. I started to feel completely invisible in my own life. I couldn't even see myself anymore.