Married to someone with Asperger's/ASC: support thread 6

[Daftasabroom]

New thread, and as previously:

This thread is for partners seeking to understand the dynamics of their relationship with someone with ASD. It is a support thread, and a safe space to have a bit of a rant. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner. (ASD partners welcome to lurk or pop in, but please don't argue with other posters and tell them they are wrong).

Have a read of this and tell me what a person's race has to do with the 'the dyad of impairments'.

Autism Spectrum Disorders now has two categories of impairment instead of three, so a triad (triangle of issues) of impairments is replaced by a dyad (2 pillars) of impairments. These are ‘social communication deficits’ (combining social and communication problems) and ’restricted/repetitive behaviours’.

Are you saying that because of their race a person has social communication deficits? Or repetitive behaviours? Most people would label that racism. And yet these are diagnostic pillars of autism.

It's why false equivalences are so unhelpful.

And it would be fair to say that many of us on this thread are describing life with 'partners who have social and communication deficits'.

MN HQ please don't delete this thread.

Cognitive inflexibility is a KEY trait in Autistic Spectrum Disorder

I'm not sure why I'm bothering to say this as likely to be attacked. My ex has also repeatedly failed to reflect on this .. AND yes maybe she doesn't have to. But if you can't reflect in a relationship then difficulties arise. My ex still doesn't understand why we split. We had dozens of counselling and mediation sessions. She's an extremely intelligent person and holds down an amazing senior 6 figure salaried job. She's not an arsehole she's a person struggling with Autism and mental health.. combined.

It is in my DCs education plan and was described by 2 psychologists who viewed them on multiple occasions. It's everywhere online. If you are Autistic and don't agree then I'm sorry. I know probably 50 Autistic people. They all have a degree of this. But lots are extremely empathetic and vibrant and reflective and brilliant people - there is no one Autistic person..saying that is ableist. But they are still cognitively inflexible. I have ADHD and I have limited impulse control. But I try to be aware of this when I can. Ignoring this in ourselves isn't helpful.

When my ex was in crisis and I called the NHS mental health team. Several staff there agreed that my divorce would be extremely difficult for my ex because they were Autistic WITH trauma.

Yes Autistic people are people with the right to live an equal life with adjustments. But that doesn't mean that for many they struggle with interpersonal relationships. I've done 50 years with my DM, 20 years with my DW and 14 years with my DC. My Autistic child is the best person I know. Yes they are inflexible but they are able to reflect on it and they have insight. My ex has consistently refused to reflect and since being diagnosed had effectively used it as justification. Which may well be fair but it is very centred on their experience and not a lot on anyone else's. It took me counselling to see it as I'm an extremely accommodating person (adhd)..Some of my ADHD traits make me a dick but I really try to improve where I can, and other things I say 'I can't do that and so I won't'.

Living with someone with extreme inflexibility and processes of thought, coupled with mental health issues is difficult. Where in real life can ì speak with others about that if not here?

@User0610134057 I'm sorry you are going through this. Please try to detach yourself from the threats as much as you can. I found that helped but was difficult I assume you don't think the suicide threats are real but please seek advice. I struggled to get anyone to take it seriously to start with but when my ex did this 5 years ago (not divorced related was when moving house and job stress got too much) they went to A&E and this got them some help. Not much but some. This was also when they got diagnosed. The diagnosis helped BUT unfortunately it also meant they didn't get as much help for their other related mental health issues. For them I don't think overall it was the best thing as now they can say Autism for everything. They have bad paranoia for example.and need more therapy.

@PumpkinZombie I am autistic - your posts just made me revisit my exact diagnosis (received outside the UK after completing multiple tests with a senior psychiatrist at a university hospital) and it is as follows:

Syndrome d'Asperger (trouble du spectre autistique)

I write this to highlight that I am not an able person mindlessly bashing my autistic DH. I hope it does not offend as I think I read somewhere that Asperger's is now no longer used in the UK?

Anyway, I am an autistic person who is actually empathetic and not overly rigid married to an autistic person who is minimally empathetic / loving and extremely rigid with very fixed ideas on the correct way to do things. We have an 8 year old DC. Our life is extremely complicated and can be very, very hard for all of us. I have found this thread invaluable to add to my understanding and as an outlet for expression in what is an incredibly hard, sad and desperate situation.

Almost every night, autistic DH makes DC cry as a result of his rigidity (for example, his reaction if she picks at her nails / does not brush her teeth standing straight directly over the sink / talks as he tries to watch the news after work / wipes her hands on her trousers after eating / does not take her trousers off immediately and sits on the sofa if she has been playing outside - the list goes on). Also as a result of his deficits in empathy / love - he is extremely cold to her when she is upset in these situations - he storms off because he cannot cope and essentially rejects her.

DH then goes to sleep in the spare room as he prefers so he can sleep well. The next morning he wakes up and does not say good morning as he must complete his rigid morning routine first. He says hello before he eats his breakfast (same every day) but then will not speak to me again because he reads the morning news related to his career / special interest.

I could go on and on describing my life and how DH's autistic traits play out. I would also happily describe how my autistic traits can negatively impact the family too - but I can safely say I am more at the high functioning end of the spectrum (this is "mild" in MY experience) so I can moderate my behaviours and catch myself if I find myself doing something that can be detrimental.

In essence, our life is incredibly difficult at times and almost unmanageable - I cry at night and feel absolutely desperate. It's true I have found no one in real life who does understand. This thread is the first place I have come across people who have lived something similar and it's actually a ray of light in a very dark world.

AGAIN, TO REITERATE OTHER POSTERS, MUMSNET PLEASE DO NOT DELETE THIS THREAD.

@Changemyname1000x excellent post. I wish I could write so eloquently and again my life echoes so much of what you've said.

I agree wholeheartedly and your story strongly resonates.

It's absolutely true I've nowhere else I can talk about these things and the thread is a life saver.

For what it's worth - My ex will be better without me too. Family life (although loving her children so much) is difficult. She can only do one thing well. In her case it's work. I needed a partner to do my relationship well. But others will be different (as i said). I am very hopeful that with time we will be good Coparents but we need time to heal. The children are already thriving as they've strangely now got more stability. They can also see (with distance) What the issues were so are not unhappy about the divorce (although initially were). She's very unreliable for them but I'm at pains to explain its not personal.
@MomentOfCalm sending hugs. I've been in a similar eye of the storm and its a lonely and stressful place to be. You need to decide when the balance will tip. For me it was the impact on the dc. But it's far from easy.

Still no to your false equivalences.

Race is an entirely false equivalence. It’s actually deeply offensive and racist to use that example. Race is not a condition.

Whereas another ND condition… where the posters are talking about behaviours that are generally part of the diagnostic criteria… Nope. Could be no similarities to be drawn out.

I’m starting to wonder if the angry derailment is actually some sort of sick parody. Because moments like that seem quite calculated.

Away with your gaslighting. I know my husband. And even at my very, very angriest I know he does not act of out of ‘arseholeness’. He just has extremely low empathy. And a need to be right, rigid thinking, poor emotional regulation. He actually does stop if I cry. It’s only thing that wakes him into realizing I am having an emotion too.

As a precious poster said, the behaviour of the autistic advocates on this thread is exactly like that of my husband. To him, my emotions, my experiences are not about me; they are about him. He is only able to understand my emotions, my words, in terms of how they make him feel. Just like the posters here. So I know that we can plead with the autism advocates on this thread for empathy and understanding of our plight as much as we like, we can point out that we are the people, far from misunderstanding our partners, have actually spent vast amounts of emotional and mental energy over huge periods of time seeking to understand our partners and find a way to get on with them, we can point out we are not like the colleagues and kids at school who did not understand, we are the opposite! We can do that as much as we like, because, like my husband, all they can see is how what we say makes them feel, and if it makes them feel bad, that’s because we are bad, and are acting with bad motivations.

The ONLY thing that got through to my ex (and I included counsellors here) was when independently my NT teen started telling her too that things she thought were not the correct interpretation of events. (echoing what I said but independently at a different time, as initially I was accused of brainwashing the DC!). She did listen then. A bit.
But it took until my teen got old enough to to do that. It was a terrible burden on a child to do that. She's expected to constantly suppress her emotions including frustration and disappointment as her parent has a neurodisability. I know how that feels but taken me 50 years to process it! My daughter is in effect a carer.

In essence, our life is incredibly difficult at times and almost unmanageable - I cry at night and feel absolutely desperate. It's true I have found no one in real life who does understand. This thread is the first place I have come across people who have lived something similar and it's actually a ray of light in a very dark world

All of this. I’ve only just found this thread, and oh my God, being able to see other people experiencing the same behaviour, the same hurts, the same loneliness. People not in these relationships don’t understand.

I’m going to turn away from the negative aspects which I’ve been dwelling on lately to share the very positive attributes my ASC husband possesses. Yes, I know NTs have them too but at the risk of bringing down the wrath of a poster who has been very active on this thread overnight, they are often concurrent with ASC.

In no particular order, he is a great lover of all things nature. He has very sharp acuity and often spots small details in the garden which I would miss. He would never have an affair, not even an emotional one. If I ask him to do something practical, he will always do it, as soon as he is able, usually without having to remind him. He is also a highly successful physicist, and has made contributions unseen towards the national & international good. Financially, he is generous. He has some amazing hobbies, such as wood turning and has built a model steam engine. He strongly recognises and appreciates the technical qualities of good music. He would attempt to repair almost anything, be it the plumbing, central heating, my car, domestic appliances, a pen nib, anything at all, before calling the experts or throwing it away.

I can identify with @Daftasabroom in that codependency also has something to do with why we got married. I saw much more of the positive at the point we decided to get married, and decided that he was a much better person than me, not recognising that I was devaluing myself in thinking in that way. But it doesn’t do any harm to remind myself of his good points, and maybe use it as a starting point to try to identify my own.

@Changemyname1000x ah yes, I am regularly accused of brainwashing when I try to explain things calmly, factually and non-emotively to our DC to help them understand that daddy is not being unkind and actually he struggles with some things and sees things differently, and we must show kindness and understanding to him (even if he's quite cruel and unkind to us).

I make a huge amount of effort to maintain the stability in our home and I absolutely remain sympathetic to DH too and try to see things from his point of view. I also take his load of the household admin because he just can't manage / process it (and at the same time remain understanding when he manages to have a hugely successful career...).

The strain on me is huge and as you say there absolutely will be a tipping point where I say enough is enough but for various reasons this will not / can not be in the next 10 years and so I must continue to maintain this stability in the home, while also maintaining my own self employed career and my mental health / sanity.

It's so incredibly hard and then to feel like you're understood by literally nobody is enough to send somebody over the edge or to make some very poor decisions / actions (e.g. drinking far too much) - to finally find other people who have lived something similar as I have on this thread gives such a huge sense of relief.

As a diagnosed autistic person it angers me 1) that people would try to have the thread removed when we do discuss very real issues sensitively based on personal experiences and it is such a help to the people on the thread and 2) that a small number of autistic people can act with such anger, rudeness, judgement and vitriol that this may be over-generalised as autistic traits shared by the whole autistic population - as such having the damaging effect posters such as @StopHateAgainstAutisticPeople and @PumpkinZombie wish to avoid.

My point stands. You don't get to speak on behalf of them because your aren't them any more than the poster you criticize is them.

I assume you mean the Equality Act 2010 (UK). Before I accuse you of an attempt at bush lawyering, tell me how it applies here.

@QualifiedDys I loved this post

I'm not yet able to talk about the positives of my ex. I do wonder what happened to the sweet person I married. The answer is the stresses of adult life.. ironically I've not had the luxury of being able to drop that ball as OPs have said...

What I will say is that I am already missing my ex's ability to be a completer finisher. I am not. She was very very slow doing tasks...but she did them meticulously (e.g.ironing/painting and decorating) and has an extraordinary amount of patience. This served us well as opposites. In the end though she never initiated anything so I was 'the manager of the house' too. Not ideal when someone has PDA traits and the other has ADHD!

I think out there is someone we are both better suited to. Ironically I think she'll find someone first. I on the other hand am looking forward to a rest!

Actually tbh I'm not really feeling like trying to appease any thread ploppers. My husband has excellent traits, I married him ffs, and I may be misguided at times but I'm not a complete masochist.

Nor am I interested in the 'bush lawyering' (excellent term though lol) and I'd advise against engaging on that because it was discussed ad nauseum on the withdrawn thread. You're acting as though a minority of posters are engaging in good faith when they're really not. They're not listening because they are in fact The Grand Wizard of Autism Experience which gives them a pass to shout down all voices, including those of other people with autism.

You couldn't make it up.

I'm all for a pact to simply ignore the thread ploppers, but I think it needs buy-in from all regulars.

@QualifiedDys I love this post as it's prompted me to focus on DH's positives after another dreadful evening in the family and the very negative / defensive direction my posts have gone in.

My DH also would never have an affair. He is 100% committed to the family and breaking up / divorcing is just not an option.

He has stuck by me through some truly terrible behaviours of my own - pre-autism diagnosis and psychiatrist intervention I went down the route of severe anxiety leading to drinking leading to actions I'm absolutely not proud of. Also a now diagnosed impulsivity disorder adding to the madness on my side.

Through all of this he never considered leaving me, so he's truly a rock and stable force in my life, which I do need. He doesn't understand as he is not at all chaotic (and he never drinks to excess) but his support for me has never waivered.

He will help me practically with anything we need, or will pay someone to do the things he can't. He does the food shopping most Saturdays and never misses anything from the list.

He works super hard to pay all of our bills and even though I'm working too he generally doesn't expect me to contribute as he recognizes I earn a UK income which is insufficient in a hugely expensive country and his earnings far outstrip mine.

He loves our DC to pieces and does try his best to care and be present when I ask him to. He will devote as much time as DC wants to activities that interest himself (sports e.g. going out on bikes or going to the football pitches). He tries to involve them very much in his special interest of football and LOVES if DC watches with him. He buys them his team's kit each season.

He is so so proud in general of DC and loves sharing photos and videos of them with his family in UK.

Once he gets started with any household job, whether cleaning or something bigger, he takes it very seriously and it's done to a very high standard.

I also must remember he has had lacking / inadequate parental role models so it is no wonder it's extremely hard for him.

Great to focus on the positive and write this down. It's exactly this practicing of gratitude that helps get me through and keeps me sane.

@SquirrelSoShiny I also love this post - it's really made me smile and further made me lose my defensive, negative funk!

@PumpkinZombie even though I've found you to be incredibly and unnecessarily rude, this comment I've reflected on after calling myself mild and it's absolutely true:

"No, it isn't. Because you're talking about how you are affected by it. People who are able to mask actually suffer a great deal of mental health damage from that on top of the issues their autism causes already. So someone appearing more "normal" or "high functioning" or having a "mild" condition from your persoective shows nothing about how hard things are for them."

I said I was mild and yet I'm exactly one of the people you speak of who can mask exceptionally well and my mental health has been affected to the greatest degree possible because I am so high functioning - so I get exactly what you're saying and agree.

Still don't agree with the way you approach things or the unnecessary rudeness. Evidently people need to be educated but maybe in a better way.

Evidently people need to be educated but maybe in a better way.

Yes and not actually on this thread.

In my experience, telling a sad, lonely, struggling person that they're hateful on a support thread doesn't exactly sell the message 🙄🤦‍♀️ Advertising own goal if ever I saw one.

In other news ... the MN app is rubbish 🤦‍♀️😂

I've been on these threads on and off for several years.. they gave me the strength to get my sh*t together. They periodically get Autistic people on complaining. In real life I had an Autistic female acquaintance tell me 'there's a terrible thread on Mumsnet that's about Autistic partners'
I didn't say anything!
So yes it happens. MN do delete things. But they also kept the Trans Widows thread. Not saying it's same issue, but there's similarities I'm terms of the lack of understanding and silencing by others.

@Changemyname1000x I've spent the last 48 hours thinking exactly that - about the very same thread / issue.

Yes again absolutely true, it's not the right place and it did have my mind racing and stressing which added to the already delightful drama that was going on in my house last night (imagine DH coming home from work stressed and overloaded at 8:30pm to find DC had a friend over to play who was still there and making a huge amount of noise and mess. Said friend is also autistic and when DH was trying to watch the news as is always essential upon his return, friend was mesmerized by the weather map and started to touch the TV repeatedly. DH was obviously highly perturbed by this leading to meltdowns left right and centre - oh the joy!).

Happy to join the pact.