Is it ever possible to beat a narcissist at their own games?

[MeltdownCentral1]

Is it? I just want justice.

My mil is a narcissist. I feel that I've won as I'm NC. It feels liberating not having to dance the dance anymore.

As people have said don't play. I have one of these at work they are now at arms length.
No amount of reporting did any good.
I still occasionally get things reported back that have been said about me but I record and send them on.

And remember even if you step away it will get worse for some time then they will give up and start on someone else.

Yes it is possible but needs a third party in authority ie judge to put them in their place. My exH came up with the most complicated, ridiculous ploy to try to bully me into giving up the joint lives spousal maintenance from our divorce.

Won't bore you with the details but he got some acquaintances to set up a company, including a website that wasn't attached to any search engine, to try to frighten me into attending mediation where he intended to hide the pensions and new house, claiming his job had taken a dive. I had people turning up at my house and 'official' letters sent to me. It was very frightening.

Unfortunately for him therapy had opened my eyes to his narcissism and manipulation so I called his bluff and went to court. I think he thought I wouldn't have the funds to defend it and would accept his lies as he had always got away with it when we were married. I borrowed some money for legal fees where necessary then set about educating myself on divorce law. I called hearings for disclosure and represented myself despite his barrister trying to intimidate me.

Turned out he was hiding hundreds of thousands of pounds in pension and had ramped up his mortgage despite claiming something had happened to his job. It hadn't. He was actually earning more than when we were married. The whole thing was a farce and I walked away with a substantial clean break settlement.

I have never seen anyone look so grey faced and ill as he did at court. It completely back fired on him. Also his new property has taken a substantial drop in value as he bought it in an overheated area and looks like he is heading for his second divorce. The company he set up disappeared the day after the final hearing.

I agree. I am not the person he married who he brainwashed into thinking I had no rights, no needs and was gullible enough to believe his lies. 😆

@Omnivert, sorry to hear that. In some circumstances it’s not always so easy to “extricate” yourself. I hope you are “managing” the situation as best you can, at least HR are seeing the basic truth I hope. It’s not easy.

Thanks it's definitely taken its toll. I try hard to see that its not personal and the narc has displayed similar attacks on others but seems to save most of their anger for me. I have started to look for ways out to other jobs but my stubborness equally doesn't want to give in.

Nope. You can't win in any game playing against them.

So the only way to 'win' (and by win in this instance I mean, to move on) is indifference.

Utter indifference.

Not pretending to feel that way, but genuinely feeling it. That's the only way you 'win'.

They thrive on anything else, whether positive or negative.

You can't stay in this relationship, it is destroying you because every single day is a day wasted on someone cruel rather than a day moving towards happiness.

Please don't stay with him and end up looking back on your life and regretting that you did. There's no other outcome if you stay with him.

I did it by withdrawing completely. Ignore all messages or attempts to communicate once our shared children became older teens. I don't acknowledge him in any way. I know it niggles at him because he still keeps trying to "resolve" things every now and then via emails. They thrive on the drama. Conflict triggers something in their brains which rewards them so the only way to "win" is to take away that good reward feeling they get.

How do you deal with a narcissist when you have not chosen to be in a relationship with them? e.g. I work with one. If I don't engage with them then they create drama out of it - for example there was a big blow up at work and in the aftermath they complained to boss saying I ask professional advice from other colleagues and not them. The reason I was tending to do that is they tend to give me snarky 'don't you know?' answers.

Trying to dance round and not offend (not be assertive during micro or macro aggression encounters)...causes offence. Offence can be taken whatever I do.

I actually would leave my job over this, and am planning a possible escape route but it will take a few years.

@KisstheTeapot14

If someone is doing this, it doesn't matter if they're a narcissist or not. Don't deal with them directly, but explain to managers what's going on, matter of fact. If the managers don't deal with it, leave. You're being bullied and that needs to be dealt with by the authority, not the victim.

My H has NPD (I very stronglybelieve) He is utterly evil. I left as soon as he started on DD who was 12.

Any advice for divorcing him (in his country) I have the best lawyer, I just want rid. But I have found out he has lied about so much.Properties he has bought, during our 18 year marriage, our marital regime has been changed (by him) etc...

I obviously have access to no money, he has potentially, millions, hidden in other places/countries.

Omg please help.
I have screwed up.
I am married to a narc. It's been 13 years. I have been emotionally and verbally brutalised in that time.
For some reason , it just all got too much. There was nothing much that happened other than their usual rising temper and displeasure this evening.

I started back at them like I have never before. I kept calling my narc a bully and a liar. That's all I did. I think they were a bit taken aback.
At the time It felt like righteous anger if you like. I kept shouting out all the horrible names I have even called over the years and saying "you called me X, you called me Y. You hit me " It was awful but felt like I had the power at the time.
The kids witnessed it and I am so sorry they did but my hurt inside had gotten too much. I have felt so down and damaged by it in the last few days.

But now that everyone has gone to sleep I feel awful. I feel like I made a mistake. I feel dirty. I know in my rational mind that saying these things to someone like this is meaningless. They love drama and even my relentless calling up on their horrible behaviour is some sort of attention and supply.

I am also mortified that i have "shown my hand". I was trying to plan for the future and break away from this.

Sorry I'm just babbling and I feel burnt out. This seemed such a relevant thread for what I am going through

Please speak to womens aid tomorrow to discuss a path to safely ending your relationship.

Every day you stay, your mental health is being further damaged.

And crucially, every day you stay is another day that long term damage is being done to your children.

The longer you stay, the more likely it is that they will end up with someone like your abuser.

There's help out there, but you need to ask for it. Especially now you've shown your hand as you say

@wellhelloitsme

Thank you for your kind post.
This bit is hard to hear but I need to hear it:
The longer you stay, the more likely it is that they will end up with someone like your abuser.

I don't think you will ever win in a way that they recognise as you winning. Nevertheless, if you genuinely stop being bothered about a relationship with a narcissist and make yourself fully aware of their narcissistic traits so as to protect yourself from them, then I think you've beaten them. My MIL is a narcissist. I really don't like her, but it's only in the last year that I've genuinely stopped caring whether or not we have a relationship with her. When she's love bombing I simply throw everything in the bin or donate to charity. When she's being aloof I celebrate the peace and quiet. She obviously doesn't know any of this, so in her head she's probably still winning.

I truly believe that Nc totally believe their story. Deeply.

My Nc H will come home from work and make comments such as ‘I span such lies to win the deal, that by the end of the boardroom session I believed my own lies!’

He openly says this!! Takes pride in it. It’s disgusting!

But then he does the same to me, only I can see through it now. It hurts no less though, in fact it hurts more. I can now see the manipulation. He has, in the past, also admitted to saying things deliberately to hurt me. Comments such as ‘oh yes, I said that to hurt you’ when questioned on his behaviour.

He has absolutely no shame. A Nc will always always believe their behaviour to be correct.

My H behaves like this, I believe, due to the way he was brought up. He was never ever wrong, never corrected as a child. No excuse at all though. As a grown man, he should be able to see how disgusting this is. He never will though

I remember wanting justice. But what I wanted more was a peaceful life without looking over my shoulder.
A narc's capacity for revenge is limitless. No boundaries or fears to hold them back. They can spend years brooding over a grudge or imagined slight.
I think of my ex narc as an alien with a human mask. I am as no/low contact as I can be with a shared child.

I remember wanting justice. But what I wanted more was a peaceful life without looking over my shoulder

I think this is the thing, really. Wanting justice means volunteering yourself for a battle. You have to decide whether battling is the most fruitful use of time, if your goal is to be happy.

I worked for one last year. I've never experienced a true narcissist at first hand before and it was eye-opening. She was also a sociopathic bully (and those were her nicer traits!).

To start with she really broke me down but then one day I just decided enough was enough. I would be super nice to her, all the time, smiling and being really friendly even when she was being poisonous. Lots of 'oh really? No that's absolutely FINE!' from me with a big grin on my face. I batted away all of her bullshit and I could see that she was enraged because I didn't engage.

When I left the job she said to me 'I trust that you can use your time here as an opportunity for some self-reflection'. I nodded and looked her straight in the eye and said 'Likewise, I hope you can too' and walked away.

Then I wrote a four page letter to her boss explaining exactly why I was leaving only part way through my contract. I have heard anecdotally that her response to this was apoplectic. But she can do absolutely nothing to me now. I think I won.

I have a family member like this. We get told absolutely never to be in contact because we are all awful, followed by emails a few months later reminding us how awful we are, then sometimes emails to me all sweetness and light asking for professional advice.
Any mention of past behaviour/drama/ lies is met with a torrent of abuse.
I ignore most correspondence now, and have peace with it.

@Watchkeys I have reported to 3 different managers over the last couple of years.

Manager 1 said I can't do anything unless you raise a formal complaint (gambling on me not doing so)

Manager 2 I emailed to report behaviour but said I don't want you to do anything as it might escalate if the person knows I have reported.

Manager 3 (I told her directly that I felt this is bullying and I am not far from a formal complaint) had us both in a meeting where the onus was placed on both of us to cooperate and to come up with positive statements about each other. And for me to give the person direct feedback on behaviour.

The person wanted me to admit that I had hurt her feelings and I said I was sorry their feelings were hurt however I had not intended anything like that and it was their interpretation (in fact they were the one who blew a gasket in a rage about something some tiny it is laughable).

I did say to the manager I am not having 1:1's with the person to challenge them in private as it just becomes a forum for them to tear a strip off me without witnesses.

Uneasy truce right now but I do know there will be a next time. It isn't just me this happens to but the other members of team say its just the person 'being moody' and 'just walk away'.

Manager says to come to her any time something kicks off - I did explain its usually a trail of small incidents (which seem petty to report - micro aggressions really which can be hard to pinpoint as they are tone of voice like sarcasm which person may defend by saying its how I interpreted - hard to prove) which inevitably lead to something bigger after a lead in of say 5 or 6 weeks. Previous incidents have involved: light switches, windows, cardigans, not wanting to read something the ex had sent the person (long back story but abusive relationship). Its all nonsense but is made a huge thing of if anyone dares to challenge or is perceived to.

It often catches me off guard when the person blows up - blindsides me. Though last time I did tell them exactly what it makes me think/feel. It's eggshells all the time, but the job is one I love and have been in for ages - fits well with DC and DH work etc Would be nigh on impossible to find as good a situation where we live.

Its the same for the other person too so they will probably only leave due to old age. I dread more years to come of this situation.

As I said upthread @KisstheTeapot14 , If the managers don't deal with it, leave. You're being bullied and that needs to be dealt with by the authority, not the victim.

If your managers aren't supporting you, you have more of a problem at work than your narcissist colleague, and you'd be better working elsewhere. The list of dramas you wrote doesn't really make any difference to the overall idea that you walk away from a bully.

Also, if others are dealing with it ok It isn't just me this happens to but the other members of team say its just the person 'being moody' and 'just walk away' then perhaps you're allowing yourself to get sucked into the drama when others don't? You're in charge of that, not the narcissist.