Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Is it ever possible to beat a narcissist at their own games?

132 replies

MeltdownCentral1 · 02/08/2022 22:54

Is it? I just want justice.

OP posts:
smilingthroughgrittedteeth · 03/08/2022 10:24

DP's ex is a narc and no he and the children (adults now) will never win with her because she already has power over them. He blocked all contact a few years ago so has nothing to do with her now but she used to use the children to get at him.

I on the other hand have repeatedly won against her because she has no power over me and i dont give a shit about what she does or says which drives her crazy...... i have in fact taken great delight over the years in watching her get herself worked up over her inability to get a reaction from me. The downside is that she inevitably takes it out on someone else like dsc so i dont provoke her i just stand back and watch the tailspin from her thinking shes done or said something very clever to realising that my reaction wasnt what she expected and the tantrum that comes. I especially like when she does it publically and people see what a nasty piece of work she is.

Sagealicious · 03/08/2022 10:30

I used to have a friend who had narcissistic tendencies, she truly believed she knew better than everyone else and considered herself an expert in many things even though she knew fuck all and had lived a very sheltered life.
I was often criticised by her for anything and everything, she would tell me that I needed to know that I was fat and it was up to her to let me know this so I could learn to be a better person (her words).
If I told her what she said was rude and inappropriate she would mock me and tell me I was always so sensitive and needed to learn to be more like her. I would then point out her weight wasn't that far off mine and that she wasn't so perfect either, she looked shocked and then told me that I was always so insensitive and that I needed to learn to be more caring and considerate like she was (her words).
There are far more examples that I could give unfortunately and yes I did often question why I didn't walk away from this toxic person but no matter how I reacted she got off on it because she got her energy from the reaction.
I finally woke up to myself and decided to stop reacting to her. She didn't like it one bit and I got a whole heap of nasty text messages calling me every name under the sun, that I was useless and a pathetic loser and that I was the most narcissistic, self-centered person she'd ever met and that she could no longer be around someone like me because I was a dangerous person with a mental illness (I was very mentally ill at the time). I deleted her messages and number from my phone and knowing her like I did I knew she was expecting a reaction from me. I didn't give her one and got on with my life.
People like that want a reaction and can't handle it when they don't get one. They live for people to get upset, angry, flustered, defensive, etc. That's how they get their energy. Feed it and it will grow, starve it and it will die.

Not reacting to them and getting them out of your life so you can move forward and be happy is the only way to beat these people.

Garysparrowsthirdwife · 03/08/2022 10:42

My mother is a narc
I walked away from her over ten years ago-i won by just ignoring her
If you listen to her I have a split personality,am a nutter and I'm a psychopath
It's all bollocks but some people believe her
I've been attacked from her flying monkeys more times than I care to admit
I moved over 100 miles away and I just let her scream into the wind now-the ones that love me know the truth and the ones that don't can do one
I win by not engaging with her and I know that kills her

Twillow · 03/08/2022 10:46

If you fight with them, they love it because they use it to justify themselves.
If you ignore them, they seek their drama elsewhere.
You only win by avoiding the drama.
Another poster wrote this - I love it! “Never wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty and the pig likes it”

BeanieTeen · 03/08/2022 10:52

Ignore them surely?
Narcissists truly and inherently believe the world revolves around them and they expect the world to act accordingly. It kills them to be confronted with genuine disinterest that shatters the illusion of their own superior importance.

DotDotaDash · 03/08/2022 11:05

No - because the end point of each ‘game’ is when they decide…. which will be when you are the underdog.

CannibalQueen · 03/08/2022 11:10

YouTube a guy called HG Tudor. He's a self proclaimed narc and has a channel devoted to giving you tips on how to handle them. He also does scathing breakdowns of famous narcs but the self-help stuff is in there too.

Cheminaufaules · 03/08/2022 11:22

Impossible to beat a narcissist at their own game. The best outcome with this would require you to be a narcissist yourself and to be prepared for the battle to never end.
If you want justice, that's a different thing, which could be achieved depending upon context, as others have pointed out.

GreenManalishi · 03/08/2022 11:27

It's impossible. You will waste the most enormous amount of energy trying, and it will never end until you withdraw and ignore. You can't win a game where the rules are changed every time you get within a sniff of winning. And win in who's opinion? They're deluded, and will flip into victim mode if they feel you have any advantage over them. Zero accountability. Ever. Lies upon lies.

Don't try. Having to co - parent with one is utterly mind bending, there is absolutely no justice whatsoever and all you can do is just be there for the kids, and make sure they have a good example of a rounded human being in you, because they sure as shit won't get one from your ex.

Bunty55 · 03/08/2022 11:31

takeitandleaveit · Yesterday 23:49
The only way a narcissist ever gets beaten is if they come up against an even bigger one.

Yes, but to never react is also another good way of dealing with the shit

Sagealicious · 03/08/2022 12:47

OP take it from those of us who have experienced these people you are playing a losing game if you try to beat them at their own game and ask yourself why you want to because I can guarantee you they'll be expecting you to try and get revenge against them and they'll love the challenge -not that they'd see it as a difficult challenge and if you think they won't be expecting this well I have Sydney Harbour Bridge to sell to you...

StrawberryFurl · 03/08/2022 13:17

HG Tudor also goes into the different levels of narcissism, which I found interesting. He divides them into lower level, middle level and higher levels. I guess the higher levels are those with full-blown NPD.

He similarly divides empaths. The upper level Super Empath is the special attraction for the upper level narcissist- but also the one who is most able to win against him - either by leaving, or something else. Any actual final conflict between the two he describes as supernova: it’s a fight to the end and the Super Empath is capable of “winning”. As I said either by simply leaving with themselves fully intact, or winning a struggle in a different way if it was necessary.

Certainly, this rings true to me. I think there are a fair number of narcissistic people out there, most at the lower levels, thought they can still be problematic at all levels. My own experience is eg. a lower-level narcissistic ex-friend; a middle-level narcissistic mother I am currently NC with; and a mercifully short-term NPD-type ex-boyfriend. My mother revealed her utter, outrageous craziness and darkness sometimes; the NPD guy was mad as hell from the get go really.

Experiencing our own healing, how one does that. The world exacts it’s “pound of flesh” for empaths, IME. Sometimes I have to remind myself there are some genuinely good (not perfect, but essentially good) people in the world.

Unforgettablefire · 03/08/2022 13:29

I wouldn't go there. Justice is you getting on with your life and pretending they never happened.
Go no contact and stay that way for your own sanity, you will never win any other way because it just goes on and on and they ramp it up.

StrawberryFurl · 03/08/2022 13:38

@brendablue I read something like this once is all. I think it went the lines that the average narcissist John can be an easy mark for a prostitute because he is easily manipulated by flattery, at least short term I guess. Something like that anyway.

mcallister · 03/08/2022 13:45

I have a 'friend' who is a complete narcissist. She's caused drama and upset for years and I've spent hours agonising about it and also wondering why she is so compelling to others, and sometimes feeling jealous.

It's taken me a long time to realise that she has no lasting friendships. I do. She isn't actually happy. I am. Nothing is ever enough. I have what I need. I now am completely ignoring her and it feels good. It's the only thing that works.

StrawberryFurl · 03/08/2022 14:11

Oh, I forgot about the narcissist at work too.

StrawberryFurl · 03/08/2022 14:13

don’t know what ‘type’ she was as only knew her on a work basis. I think some narcissist types only reveal themselves at home, others at home and work, others everywhere ….

uncertainalice · 03/08/2022 14:25

I'd love to get back at my abusive narc XH by telling his parents exactly what he is like - they have not spoken to me in years since I chucked him out after one particularly nasty incident. I don't know what he has told them happened, but it certainly won't be the truth.

But everyone tells me it's better to just walk away, esp for the DC, so I won't have the satisfaction of knowing that letter is going to drop onto their mat, and I'll just have to live my best life instead...

samyeagar · 03/08/2022 14:26

StrawberryFurl · 02/08/2022 23:13

I guess it depends what kind of ‘game’ is this you are talking about OP.

Here are a few things which might help.

1.Games need rules. Ns aren’t interested in any ‘rules’. The rules are what they decide as they go along.

2.Most people want a win:win. Ns prefer win:lose, advantage them. They may be prepared to go lose:lose.

3.Nothing is ever resolved (the game is never over).

Im not sure if Ns can be ‘fooled’. Maybe temporarily eg if they are fawned over or flattered : ‘the fooled john and the manipulative prostitute’ arrangement come to mind. But mostly I think they are far too suspicious, even paranoid, of people’s motives. So mostly only very short-term. If you were super super clever it might be possible in certain circumstances but what would it be for, as energetically the price is high.

Generally though you can’t win if you play their game as they won’t play unless they have the advantage …. Id say mostly it’s best to walk away.

I was married for 17 years to a woman diagnosed with NPD, so this thread is of interest to me for sure. I have not read past this post yet, but this does raise a salient point...

The part about if a narcissist can be "fooled", tied to the rules being what ever the narcissist wants them to be at the time...

In order for a person to be "fooled" or to be "wrong" in anything or any situation, they have to actually be aware that they were fooled or wrong.

Without that self realization, self awareness, then they are never fooled and never wrong. A narcissistic personality will always rewrite the rules, reframe the situation so that they were not fooled or wrong.

Regardless of how it is presented, those who are looking to beat a narcissist at their own game, wanting some sort of revenge, wanting closure, are asking for the impossible, because what they are really seeking is for the narcissist to have some sort of "ah ha" moment, to give some sort of acknowledgement, and with a true narcissist, they lack the portion of personality that would allow for that.

With a narcissist, the only way to win is to simply not play.

Hopeandlove · 03/08/2022 14:27

In a word no - they have no empathy and no remorse.

MarshaBradyo · 03/08/2022 14:28

The thing is some people love a game and if you try to beat them at it it’s what they really want - the engagement

CuttedUpDress · 03/08/2022 14:36

Yes, but you usually have to stoop to their level and you end up questioning who you are and what you have become.

It's not a nice feeling.

RockinHorseShite · 03/08/2022 15:14

No, attempting to do so just gives them the drama they feed on & love

The best & only way to really get to a Narc is to totally ignore them & go live your best life. They cannot bare to be ignored & will obsess over you onwards, especially if you are happy & successful, that will kill them, but they will be unable to touch you. I have Narc ex friends & DPs that still chew peoples ears off over 20 years later & occasionally still try & reach out & contact me. Everyone now knows what they are though. That's the thing with narcs, they are so desperate for attention & control, they can't stay hidden for long Grin

samyeagar · 03/08/2022 15:41

Having read through the thread now, it seems as if the examples of "winning" and beating a narcissist at their own game are kind of fluid as to what an individual considers winning. The examples seem to be in situations where there was an appeal to an outside force such as the courts or law enforcement that have actual authority to impose consequences. They have no choice but to comply, but they will never accept that they deserved any consequence.

I suppose those are victories, but more often than not, when one is seeking a victory over a narcissist, the person is really just wanting some acknowledgement from the narcissist that the narcissist realizes they were wrong, that they were beaten. Some level of self realization in the narc, and some sort of validation.

The idea of beating a narcissist...can one truly beat someone if the other person does not realize, does not accept, does not acknowledge, does not validate that they were beaten? Not only that, but will turn it around and claim victory for themselves?

Omnivert · 03/08/2022 15:43

Sadly am unable to step away from an employee who is a covert narc, I havent met this person alone in over 3 years due to unsafe recall of events and no longer directly manage them but they will not let go. Currently they are seeking a grievance complaint that has not been accepted by HR and despite being told that even if a complaint was accepted and upheld (highly unlikely) it would not result in my dismissal (actually think they would like to see my head on a plate) they continue to say all sorts about me behind my back.

I don't think they will ever stop until they have 'won'