DH and DD at war. Don’t know what to do.

[Maximoose]

DH and DD have always had a really lovely relationship (he’s not her real dad but been in her life since she was 2). She calls him daddy, and up until 2 years ago she preferred him to me and they did everything together.

2 years ago we had to move counties, not too far, still close enough that we can do day trips to see friends and family but far enough that we had to move schools and get used to a new area.

She has blamed him entirely for this and has hated him ever since. She makes things up a lot, trying to get him into trouble with me. She has succeeded a few times, and we’ve had blazing rows but 90% of the time I’m in ear shot of their conversation so I know that she outright lied to my face about him being mean to her. She seems to deeply unhappy, and I feel like I’ve exhausted all avenues now and don’t know what to do. We’ve tried private therapy, camhs, the school have counselling for her, we’ve tried more time with just me, more time with just daddy, more time with all of us together. We’ve tried completely backing off and letting her do her thing and we’ve tried being firmer and establishing boundaries.

She is so so sensitive and really really reacts strongly to the slightest thing. This mornings argument was my husband had asked her nicely to stand back and give him some room as he was injecting his insulin. I heard all this through the baby monitor. She then storms into the kitchen in hysterical tears saying that daddy told her she’s not allowed to play with her baby sister anymore and to go away.

It’s gotten to a point now where my husband doesn’t want to be alone with her as he’s sacred of what he’s going to be accused of next. However, he does all the morning school run as I work early. Some mornings she’s fine and he’s the best guy in the world, but a lot of mornings she screams and cries and won’t let me leave.

It’s her birthday next month as we have planned a lovely family trip away but I’m honestly dreading it. She’s having some sensory issues currently the school are monitoring and I have questioned her maybe having ocd or autism but camhs have no concerns.

i just don’t know what to do. I want to enjoy my child again but we are all just walking on egg shells around her.

How old is she?

This mornings argument was my husband had asked her nicely to stand back and give him some room as he was injecting his insulin. I heard all this through the baby monitor. She then storms into the kitchen in hysterical tears saying that daddy told her she’s not allowed to play with her baby sister anymore and to go away.

What did she say when you told her you heard everything and you know she's lying straight to your face?

Sorry she’s about to turn 8.

She just stands there and stares at me and says she doesn’t know why she’s lying.

Was it his fault you had to move? How old is the baby?

How old is the baby, and how close to the pregnancy / birth did all this start?

How old is she. If she's primary age, then I can see why she's struggling. She's got a new daddy, baby, moved home and school.
Is she testing boundaries and questioning his love for her?
But that doesn't help you deal with her behaviour.

Have you got a holiday planned? Might a relaxed change of scenery in a neutral setting with plenty of quality family time help?

And yes, make sure she knows that you know she's lying.

All the best op, not sure what to advise, other than cctv cameras and sound in all the main common areas, so then their is no, she said, he said ect

Was it his job that meant you had to move?

As someone who is just getting her 16 year old diagnosed with ASD, I would be cautious that CAMHS have “no concerns”. The first time we went the fobbed me off with a leaflet on anxiety. We were reassessed after a complaint by me, and she is now nearly all the way through her Autism diagnosis, she has an EHCP, and we are working with the Ed Psych.

Mine used to flip for no seemingly reason (which I now recognise as panic attacks) - too hot, too noisy, too busy. She would completely misread situations, and think we “meant” something we didn’t (which I now recognise as her inability to recognise emotions)

School was overwhelming, and she would shout and rage about it. She still panics, but, we have a better way of talking about it now.

Talking about emotion is hard as a teenager, even harder if you are struggling with mental health, or development. Find a common language, find a time where it’s “non threatening” - with my DD I talk about things whilst she is doing something else, or when I’m driving (no eye contact)

I tell her a love her everyday .. even more when it’s a crappy day .. and always get a hug 🤗.

This could be the answer

My instinct is her life has been turned upside down, first by your move, and second by the new baby and she is showing her upset by this.
Perhaps in her child mind she thinks he has betrayed/deserted her, or if you split she can go back to life in the old location without the baby?

Sensory issues could also be dyspraxia or something else that isn't autism.

Sorry, no suggestions, apart maybe love bombing?

A new baby on the scene, could it be that?
She can’t express her feelings and is struggling. It’s a way of getting attention 🤷‍♀️

It could be ADHD. Racing thoughts, rejection sensitivity, emotional dysregulation, acting on impulse when sharing information, are all symptoms.If it is ADHD the right medication could transform her MH.

It’s her birthday next month as we have planned a lovely family trip away but I’m honestly dreading it

Have you asked her what she wants for her birthday? Because given her current state I cannot imagine that a family trip away would be something she’d like or tolerate. So first off, ask her what she wants.

On the larger issue of her mental state and behaviour, Im wondering how she could have been seen privately and through CAMHS but not yet even diagnosed anything? Did they do a full psychological assessment? You need that done and a treatment plan drawn up. So might need to push harder for more help from those quarters.

Baby is 9 months old so yes everything all happened at once. It was a mutual decision to move, we both lost our jobs through Covid and this house we already owned so it made financial sense to move.

She adores her sister, and had had some disturbing intrusive thoughts about the baby being hurt by someone.

I know that I have failed her massively. But the pandemic and then the pregnancy and then her spending a lot of time alone while I breastfed etc has just completely fucked her up and I can’t seem to make it better.

And yes the trip away was her idea.

This mornings argument was my husband had asked her nicely to stand back and give him some room as he was injecting his insulin. I heard all this through the baby monitor. She then storms into the kitchen in hysterical tears saying that daddy told her she’s not allowed to play with her baby sister anymore and to go away.

Instead of accusing her of deliberately lying, listen to what she’s really saying.

She feels pushed away from ‘her’ daddy by the baby.

He shouldn’t withdraw. He needs to live bomb her, I think. Are you SURE his attitude to her hasn’t changed since you’ve had a baby together? Sometimes it’s not conscious, so that’s not an accusation of his wrongdoing, but if it’s how she’s perceived the situation it still needs tackling, mostly by him.

Love bomb, obviously. He 100% shouldn’t live bomb her! 😱

I’ve said to him that I can’t be the one to repair their relationship. He needs to out more effort in which I appreciate is hard as he doesn’t see her all that much due to work, and when he is around she doesn’t want to be with him.

Get some family guidance support for yourselves. I can't stress that enough. We're just coming out of the other side of something similar & it's been a very rough ride. I am your DH in our case & it has all but broken me this last few years, it almost broke us up after well over 20 years & he is her DF.

It's definitely ASD in our case, but missed by almost all or dismissed as "gifted & anxious with SPD" right up until year 9. Hormones are also kicking in & ramping up at 8, so add the teen brain rewiring & them growing towards becoming more independent to that , it's a hot mess. Plus you have the big change of the move unsettling her.

I was the closest to her like your DD is with your DH & it was me DD went for & me she was lying about to DH.

Counselling has taught us that she was overly close to me, bullying & significant health problems meant we had no choice & she missed a lot of school etc & because of her ASD, growing up & breaking away is magnified because of their black & white thinking.

Plus they feel the changes so much more with ASD, their struggles magnify as they mask harder to fit in with more difficult older social situations & they are internally distraught & close to melt down, but bottle it up & let it all out at the parent they feel safest with & trust the most. DH having my back & trusting me a 100% rather than being so torn & upset himself as he believed me, but couldn't believe she was being so manipulative either.

Ours is 19 now, she was late to puberty, so thankfully started a bit later than 8, but many do become hormonal by then. We are just coming out of the other side of it, but it's taken us adjusting how we communicate & allow for her black & white thinking.

Communication is key & it's not straight forward, it requires stopping & thinking & listening harder

For example...

I ask her not to drink too much of my bottle water as I can't buy more atm.

She tells me she isn't drinking it & gets defensive. I've watched her drink it over & over & she's standing there with a bottle of my water in her hand.

Normal reaction... wtf is she standing there bare faced lying to me over something so ridiculous... now my back is up as I'm now expecting her to kick off & I'm fed up that this is how it is ever time I challenge anything with her. She's now bristling & primed for an argument too & is very angry I think she is lying.

But I stop & think... what's too literal about my question & her answer... bingo!

I suddenly realised that she DOESNT literally drink my water at all, as she is mixing it with her squash. So she isn't lying, just answering very literally as is the way with ASD & so she had every right to be upset to be accused of lying

Taking this into account when talking with her & showing 100% united front with DH with support as we needed it is bringing us out the other side & she's about 95% human again

Interestingly we have talked about the times she's kicked off & nasty things she has said, even coldly & seemingly not in obvious rage or meltdown & she owns up to sort of blanking out & doesn't really know what she's said or done in these cold calmer meltdowns.

Hope that makes some sense

Time. Give her time, consistent love, patience, and solid security. She’s 8yo, been through a divorce, a new dad (she won’t remember but she knows), a pandemic, a house move, a new school, a pregnancy, birth of a baby. That’s a lot for an adult, let alone an 8yo.

This isn’t to blame you. It doesn’t sound like you’ve done anything wrong (although don’t know why she had to be alone while you were feeding the baby?). Nobody is at fault, these are just big things and she’s probably having big feelings. At 8yo, she can’t be expected to recognise them, articulate them, manage them, control them all the time.

Just be the parents. Calm, loving, consistent, boundaries, understanding, patience.

She couldn’t sit in with us as she makes so much noise that she always wake him up.

I’d politely suggest that asking her to leave the room, with her being left alone for periods of time while you “protected” (that might be how she sees it) the new baby from her, isn’t the answer. That’s rejection. She has to learn to live with her brother, not alongside and separately.

It’s not easy for you, for sure. It was easier first time with her, but she was an only child then. But that’s life.

This is mumsnet at its best. Sorry I have no suggestions but I have learnt a lot. I hope you can solve this problem soon, OP

Poor kid she’s a baby herself and her whole world has been turned upside down. Can you both spend some time with her without the baby? Your DH needs to ‘love bomb’ here as someone already said.

you asking her to leave the room is a massive mistake. Why can’t the baby learn to live with noise? Or you leave the room with her?