DH and DD at war. Don’t know what to do.

[Maximoose]

DH and DD have always had a really lovely relationship (he’s not her real dad but been in her life since she was 2). She calls him daddy, and up until 2 years ago she preferred him to me and they did everything together.

2 years ago we had to move counties, not too far, still close enough that we can do day trips to see friends and family but far enough that we had to move schools and get used to a new area.

She has blamed him entirely for this and has hated him ever since. She makes things up a lot, trying to get him into trouble with me. She has succeeded a few times, and we’ve had blazing rows but 90% of the time I’m in ear shot of their conversation so I know that she outright lied to my face about him being mean to her. She seems to deeply unhappy, and I feel like I’ve exhausted all avenues now and don’t know what to do. We’ve tried private therapy, camhs, the school have counselling for her, we’ve tried more time with just me, more time with just daddy, more time with all of us together. We’ve tried completely backing off and letting her do her thing and we’ve tried being firmer and establishing boundaries.

She is so so sensitive and really really reacts strongly to the slightest thing. This mornings argument was my husband had asked her nicely to stand back and give him some room as he was injecting his insulin. I heard all this through the baby monitor. She then storms into the kitchen in hysterical tears saying that daddy told her she’s not allowed to play with her baby sister anymore and to go away.

It’s gotten to a point now where my husband doesn’t want to be alone with her as he’s sacred of what he’s going to be accused of next. However, he does all the morning school run as I work early. Some mornings she’s fine and he’s the best guy in the world, but a lot of mornings she screams and cries and won’t let me leave.

It’s her birthday next month as we have planned a lovely family trip away but I’m honestly dreading it. She’s having some sensory issues currently the school are monitoring and I have questioned her maybe having ocd or autism but camhs have no concerns.

i just don’t know what to do. I want to enjoy my child again but we are all just walking on egg shells around her.

My DD lives in a home with no extra babies or house moves etc and still had a mental health crisis at this age.
It's a key age for development and your DD is dealing with some additional stressors. This is where you live now and the baby is here, these things aren't going to change.
Someone upthread made a really good point that took me years to understand - your DD looks and understands the world from the perspective of a 8 year old. As an adult it's really easy to forget what that looks like.
My DD suffered very badly with intrusive thoughts at this age. I didn't understand at all what that was. I know better now.
If your DD is having intrusive thoughts, look into anxiety and OCD too. These are big scary feelings for little ones but you can help her navigate them.
All behaviour is a form of communication. The challenge is working out what she is trying to tell you.

Just a thought that may be helpful ... if it is how she's feeling in school, my DD benefitted a lot by a scheme her school had to help with bullying. They called it "the Buddy Scheme" DD was made "a Buddy" was given a lanyard & basically had the job of befriending any lonely looking left out DCs & rounding them up & playing with them. She loved this

Are there any creative writing or drama activities she could be involved in that might give her a safe outlet for some of these feelings?

just thinking that a lot of books for kids this sort of age are about being sent to live with cruel relatives, shut up in orphanages etc, so maybe it is something they need to explore.

I’ve also heard of kids basically making things up online, telling their friends they get no food and so on, when it isn’t true. Maybe having a way to express these imaginings where it doesn’t involve lying about/ implicating real people? Kids do seem to be expected to abandon imaginative play with dolls etc much younger than they used to be.

I think you know this but just sharing my experience, we moved when I was pregnant and dd, who was 2, so much younger than your daughter but still, kept telling me she wanted to move back to the old house, I couldn’t understand it, old house was tiny, we’d moved somewhere with more parks to play in, it was a much nicer environment. Finally, months later maybe, I asked her why, what was possibly better in the old house? (I’d been reacting by telling her benefits of new house) she told me I wasn’t so grumpy in the old house. 12 years later I get teary thinking about it. I had a terrible pregnancy and was miserable. Baby came, I cheered up, dd learned that grown ups go through bad patches and come out other end.

So listen stop beating yourself up, you’ve quickly worked out the likely problem, she’s associated a time of stress and disruption with a house move, things are better now, not as easy as they were, but it sounds like you’re all getting there. There possibly isn’t a quick fix, it’s like she’s been through an earthquake and she’s still reeling and working out how this new life fits together.

Sometimes I think you’ve just got to hold tight and trust it will all eventually work out. Keep talking and listening and being patient, they grow quickly and she will start getting a better understanding and confidence in the new set up.

i agree that she may be masking at school and that needs monitoring, but teacher sounds like she’s on it. I think it will get easier.

I had an awful pregnancy that definitely didn’t help and crippling pnd. I honestly feelblike she would just be better off without me in her life.

@Maximoose she would absolutely be far worse off without you. I hope you know this deep down.

You are listening and supporting her and your husband and your baby. Life has thrown a curve ball and she’s struggled with it, but it sounds like there’s an awful lot of good in her life.

I’m a teacher, I’ve worked with lots of families, the sort of disruption you’re dealing with will generally sort itself out in a couple of years. You’re doing the right things and sounds like getting good advice.

Loss of a parent isn’t something anyone bounces back from.

it’s hard, and it’s probably not what you thought you were signing up to when you planned this baby, but it will get better. Are you getting support for yourself? PND is just awful, but it’s not your fault, please don’t blame yourself.

If she's 8, it could be hormonal. Loads of children get their first pubescent hormone surges at 8.

When you catch her in a lie and she admits it by saying she doesn't know why she's lying, you need to make more time to finish that conversationm> i'd say, well let's sit down with a nice cold drink and work out why because it's making you and dad both really unhappy. You used to get on so well and life is more fun for everyone in our home when the pair of you get on. So, can yu think of any reasons why you lie about him?

Encourage her to think of some, even if they might not be the real reason, just a possible one. Talk in a very matter of fact voice as if you are trying to explore a philosophical problem - zero emotion. Ask how she is feeling when he says things like 'stand back, I need more space to do my injection.' Then ask if she can guess how he is feeling at that moment too. Gently direct her to pratcise a bit more empathy and consideration.

Then ask her to think of some times he has been lovely to her - done things for her or listened or supported or given her nice experiences or gifts. Ask why she thinks he does this.

Just chip away at the problem until she understands it better herself.

Another useful thing to do might be to create a calm space in the house just for her. Choose an armchair that's not in the way. Let her put cushions, a throw maybe cuddly toys from childhood on it. She could have a water bottle there, some healthy snacks, maybe earbuds to play music she likes. Tell her that whenever she starts to feel wound up and thinks she might lash out on someone who doesn't deserve it, to go to her chair and get cosy and allow herself to calm down. DC had a calm place and they almost never had toddler tantrums and never once had teenage outbursts. But you have to put in a lot of therapist-style work to help them manage their emotions.

I am amazed by some of these replies!

Children need to understand that life happens and IMO as long as they have loving, supportive parents, selfish bad behavior is not tolerated.

This child clearly has good parents but is behaving badly, the move should not be a problem and yes some adjustment should be made for the new baby but the calls to move back are nuts.

We moved our Ds12 and Ds 14 from their schools to a new county, two years ago and then Covid hit and they had to spend almost two years not making any new friends, home working in front of a screen, whilst DH and l worked 24/7 to keep the roof over our heads secure.

We spoke to them clearly about all the issues being faced by the country and us and how lucky we were to be home together despite the frustrations and how different it was for some front line workers etc.
We discussed the loneliness, being isolated from friends, them and us, made movie night plans, talked about how our parents had to change their lives in the war and looked at what we could achieve in this situation..
In other words we taught them that change is inevitable and whilst it may feel scary it doesn't have to be bad, and things always change too.

Of course this girl should be assessed for any additional needs, but if none are there then some kind but straight talking may be more beneficial.
Op stop feeling guilty! there is really nothing to feel guilty for.

I wonder how much DD is feeding of your anxiety and depression and you are projecting your thoughts onto her behaviours.

Have you read the books "How to talk so kids will listen, listen so kids will talk" and "Siblings without rivalry"? I think they would help you approach her lying differently.

For example you could state "Daddy told you to go away and you weren't allowed there anymore. Wow that doesn't sound like Daddy why do you think he said that"? The purpose would be to see if she opens up via a narrative.

Also she loves her baby sibling but probably has very strong conflicting feelings it would help if you verbalise them for her. Sometimes you love your baby just soooo much and other days you wish they weren't here and it was back to before with just you, me and Daddy those a tricky feelings.

I think she may need to find a way to express and label her feelings with words whereas the moment it's coming out in her behaviour?

Tricky. But this is resolvable. You've had very good advice. She's had upheaval, moving and baby. Talk to her about the fact move was not daddy's fault. Get him to engage more, lovebomb her. This will be repaired, slowly. My Dh's relationship with both ds's (one 18) has had peaks and troughs. Now trough, but it recovers. She's only 8.

Fwiw OP my Dad's tough spot also co-incided with my Mum dying and DD was probably very rocked by both that loss and my grief.
We're quite a few years down the line now and DD still has some issues but is doing well.
I guarantee that however tough things are now, they will pass and your DD's life is much much better for you being in it. Hugs

DD not Dad.

This. No wonder she feels rejected

OP, this is just an idea for you to consider but if you watch show like supernanny, often some of the children who have behavioral issues seem to have parents who feel overly guilty. Moving towns and getting new siblings are normal life changes and yes it may take your daughter some time to adjust, but you feeling guilty might be giving her a feeling of insecurity.

Issues like lying need to be handled. I would explain lying is not ok and my job as parent is to help her learn that, so when we know she is lying she will need to do a small chore, something very easy, that takes literally 1 - 2 minutes. Explain this will help her remember not to lie next time. She doesn't need a lecture as she's well know lying isn't okay, so no need to harp on about it, just thank her and praise her when she has completed the little task (wiping a mirror or window pane can be satisfying for young children). I think she will benefit from knowing that you expect more of her and know she is capable of breaking the habit of lying, which will give her a better relationship with you and DH.

It doesn't sound like your husband has done anything wrong here.

It's your issue OP. Take responsibility and deal with it. Set boundaries as needed. On the one hand having expectations of your husband to take to school etc and on the other blame him for this.

Your daughter has learned some toxic behaviours and I suspect there's things here you aren't admitting about yourself.