DH's 'friendship' with work colleague - am i naive????

[naivemum]

I almost just need to write this down to get it clear in my head... I don't know if i have created this situation in my head, or if I should really be worried.
I had a a bit of a bad feeling over the last couple of months, when a particular woman at dh's work kept getting mentioned and he kept getting text from her (i should point out that most of the information i have is from checking his phone - yes i know....i should trust him etc etc). Just before xmas he went on his xmas do and got back in the early hours, a bit worse for wear, the next day I asked him about it and he said he'd been doing tequila slammers, i asked 'who with' he said this woman.. so he didn't hide anything, so i thought nothing to hide. The texts continued, but i saw nothign incrminating. then a week later I checked his phone and read some texts and it turned out she'd phoned him after midnight, after i'd gone to bed, the texts mentioned about 'being quiet' . I brought it up the next day and pretended that i'd heard him on the phone. He admitted he was on the phone to her and said she was at a pub quiz and had called him because she thought he might know the answer - he said. I just didn't buy it and asked what was going on and his reaction was to treat me as if I was almost mad! He also said to me that she was very much 'one of the lads' and i had nothing to worry about. My point was that I don't have any friends that i would feel comfortable calling after midnight apart from him - my husband, and that just isn't normal for a work colleagur to call like that. I sulked about it for a couple of days, but as it turned out we were invited to a new years party where she was going to be there, so I met her and she is nothing special, and for want of a better word and not wanting to sound snobby (i'm not!) a bit common! I did speak to her and she was nice enough,and she has a boyfriend who was there. but it is still niggling at me, I have found out since that DH got a picture printed for her as a gift, and last night he went out to see a client and I looked at his phone, he'd called her within 20 minutes of leaving the house, and they are texting almost every night.
DH is a generous person, he is not a dick, he has always had female friends, but to me, this is just too much, he works closley with her, but..i don't know it just doesn't feel right. I am sorry to have gone on, I almost needed to see it all in black and white, almost think that from checking his phone i have let me imagination run away, but then pat of me is asking am I just being naive? I don't know, If anyone can make sense of all this rambling I would be grateful.
I should point out i haven't seen anything that i could accuse him of,just lots of XXX at the end of them, which I know everyone does don't they??

doggiesayswoof yes of course he should be able to see what he is doing, but if he really isn't involved with this woman then he might not see why he should end the friendship just because his wife feels that she doesn't like it. If he is involved with this woman then he might tell the op that he has ended the friendship and continue to have contact but be less open about it which won't achieve anything either.

More often than not an affair is simptomatic of something wrong in the relationship. Not always, but so often it can be something simple, ie lack of communication, one party being insecure, which can drive the other party away, sometimes even the arrival of children can lead to a change in the dinamic of a relationship which can drive one or another party into the arms of someone else, back into that pre-children place. It's not right but it happens, and if a couple don't continue to communicate then before you know it it's too late and the relationship has gone to the point of no return.

To the op, if your dh is not having a relationship with this woman, then talking about your relationship and where you want it to be will reiterate to your dh that you are a couple, that you need him too, and that he needs to be at home with you rather than texting/calling other people (be that male or female) at midnight. If there genuinely is nothing going on, then his irritation may be because he feels he reassured you 4 weeks ago and you've been carrying this around with you all this time and haven't discussed it with him.

If there is something going on, then no amount of ultimatums is going to change that, if he wants to be with her, then chances are he will be.

but talk to him, don't have a teenage text row about it.

Sorry for the very long post but Custardo's 1st post was spot on & the OP's post sounds so familiar.

A very good friend (dh his bm) had deeply threatened his marriage by his intense relationship with a colleague at work. He was - and still is - a really thoughtful & gentle man but in those weeks he adopted a selfish, blinkered attitude we'd never seen before, and nor had his wife.

Late night conversations on the mb when his wife was in bed, texts, work related evenings out (sometimes in company but often the last two to leave...). Although nothing physical happened it was, at it's kindest, an emotional affair, but left to continue its course it would have become physical. And actually what the OW looked like was immaterial. His wife is the most naturally beautiful woman I've ever met!

Not until a number of weeks later when he was coming to stay with us, did his really calm wife phone us and ask us to intervene - she thought he would at least be honest with us.

However, essentially he wasn't being honest with himself. He thought this colleague was really nice (I pointed out her predatory tactics), he thought by telling his wife where he had been and with who he was being honest (I introduced the concept of emotionally unfaithful) and he thought he had done nothing wrong (I asked him how he would feel if his wife did these things). He relayed some of the things the OW had said which were soo obvious and he admitted to being flattered and attracted to her but still attracted to and loving his wife.

I put it as bluntly as Custardo did about having to put his wife first and completely jettisoning the relationship with the OW. Even then he thought it would be unkind to the colleague!

At which point I cut to the chase & told him he was stupidest man I'd ever met if he couldn't see DIVORCE was coming. He was shocked as he hadn't realised it was that serious (see, I said he was stupid) but actually what probably had the most profound effect was my dh who just said, "You still seeing this woman?" and then gave him a look of amazed contempt and said no more on the subject.

WannaBe, totally agree with how you put it.

Also, to other posters, I just don't feel it is helpful to confront the OP with such absolutes as to how marriage should be and make judgements about the DH's commitment. It is more important for her and her DH to look at how their marriage is. Every marriage is different and survives with different dynamics, both without and without the core of the two people.

Sorry Inlovewithsweeneytodd but I just don't think it is helpful for the OP when you intimate that in some way her DH is not committed to the marriage. We just don't know that. Inconsiderate he may (or may not) be, naive he may (or may not) be, but we don't need, surely, to come over all, dare I say, moralistic. Especially as OP has also clearly talked about the positives in her relationship too. And hopefully she will be able to hold on to those when broaching this question with DH in the way that WannaBe has described.

OP - you are doing just fine, really. It can't be easy for you, being "stuck" at home with the two little ones. You are recognising your own insecurities and you are going to talk to your DH about the issues which are coming up. Hopefully you will both find a route and come out of this even stronger than you are now - as we all seek to do in our intimate relationships when confronted with all manner of issues that come up.

Also, OP, for what it's worth, contrary to some of the doom mongering that you may read sometimes here, not all men cheat and, in my experience, often these things actually end up being nowhere near as bad as we feared. In many ways, it is the fear of what may be going on which is way worse than the reality. So many times have problems taken on a life of their own for me and really, they just turn out to be way less bad than feared.

Good luck tonight.

correction I meant "within and without", not without and without

sorry, I did not mean to be insensitive. I do apologise. I just think he is putting his relationship in danger by making OP unhappy, and she is not being unreasonable to be so.
Sorry to sound moralistic as well. If anything I thought I was stating the bleeding obvious.

and sorry from me too, Inlovewithsweeneytodd, I re-read my post and it sounded harsher towards you than it was meant to. That's the problem with typing!

no problemo

Good luck naive mum - actually you sound anything but naive to me - you should rename yourself smartcookie mum methinks. Hope you manage to stay calm so DH can't get away with just saying your fears are irrational....and remember (good old management course - knew it would come in useful at some point in life...) you are in a more powerful position if you are asking the questions than if you are levelling the accusations. Just ask him calmly what his feelings are for this woman and also whether he can set your mind at rest about how much contact he has with her outside of work (he doesn't need to know what you know). Even if he lies a bit it doesn't mean he is cheating, just he is being defensive as he sounds like he is not an oaf and probably knows in his heart of hearts that the amount of contact he has had is not appropriate. The point of this conversation you are having tonight is not that it will necessarily resolve everything, more that you are drawing a line in the sand and putting on record that it is making you feel unhappy and uncomfortable. You will be able to tell a lot from how he behaves from here on in. He now knows that this friendship - rightly or wrongly - is threatening the most important relationship in his life. If he is a nice guy and values what he has then he will take heed and amend his behaviour. If not then you can take it from there but I would say tackle it one step at a time. Lots of luck xx

Dear NAivemum
If youa re able to rack my old therads wyou will see tah I went through a sacrily simialr situatio to yours. I fet terribel about checking his emails and his phoe - bu tmy antennae were well and truly raised about his particualr OW.
I wa right.
I was right to check and I was right to confront him.
It has taken months to sort out and I have to cope withthe fact that they still work together. It ws an emotional affair - but hells bells it hurt like hell. I foudn songs he'd downloaded for her. I became an expert at checking internet history etc etc....and why? because most men when foudn out will deny or try and make the truth more palatable for you adn you HAVE to know the truth.

He told me he had dealt with it - an in his way he had...butshe still kept texting him In the end I had to ring the b"%&h and she was horrible.

so what is the point of my anecdote?
The point is - you are not alone, you are OK to have checked up on him; you must talk to him; you must be prepared for reactions such as you've got it all wrong'; 'we have to be together because it's work' etc etc. bu t you must draw the line at what behaviours you find unacceptable and I would include the late night texts as a minumum. You are not overreacting - you are being totally reasonable - it's YOUR marriage.

I wish you luck - keep your resolve and don't be fobbed off until you are happy .

sorry about terrible typing - ws getting hot under the collar again I think!

Stop this thing now - you have every right. You have done nothing wrong.

Hi another one here who has been through it too

I have just skimmed this thread really but agree with Custardo's posts.DO NOT put up with this.Who would text someone elses husband that time of night ? She is not respecting you. There might not be anything going on yet but she is going for the kill.

Do not invite her to dinner. Your life is none of her business what so ever. Infact if she sees your life/ family it can become a huge turn on and she may want him more.My dh's OW lived next door and we were all very real to her.I tried the keep her close stuff and I will know. Fact is I did know and still didn't believe it and talked myself out of it, thinking I was stupid.

Also don't underestimate the plain/ common woman.I couldn't understand and never will understand how my DH ever went for it. She hung all over him and me at times. She is not as attractive as I am (really and I never blow my own trumpet, ever). I thought it was laughable at first. As if he would ever look twice at that? Then I did become suspicous and by then it was too late.

Protect your family and put a stop to it NOW

Sorry about my spelling there .

Naive - how is everything this morning now he's back at work?

He might not be having sex with this woman, or even be actively cheating. He might just like the attention and the uncomplicated kind of connection that he has with this woman. It's uncomplicated because it isn't a real relationship of any sort, meaning that it's about things of little actual consequence. No marriage vows, no mortgage, no kids. The only complicating factor in it is you as a spouse pointing out that it has crossed several lines. He's defensive about needing or allowing this kind of relationship. He might not realise how much time he's actually dedicating to it.

I'd drop the text war and accusations and ask him if there's something bothering him. Don't chase him about it. Suggest couples counselling together. Not being funny, but if you are feeling insecure enough in your relationship to be checking his phone in the first place, you might want to think about why you're feeling that way. You're feeling distance from him and are trying to find out why, and are threatened by his closeness with someone else. Hate to say it, but if he is a cheater, it's his decision. Chase this woman away and he'll find another one.

Maybe if you admit that you're feeling a bit insecure and that you think you need an impartial third party to act as a sounding board and give you both advice? Just stop fighting with him, tho. If he won't go, tbh, I think you have larger problems than some coworker texting him.

i am just able to update this now as a lot has ahppened.

we talked on fri night, i told him that i felt that her behviour was inappropriate it made me fee l threatned etc. and afetr much toing and froing, we kind of sorted things out, he denied everything and said she is a really good friend who he can talk to but said he would have a word with her about calling so late and that is wasn't acceptable. next day i found a text to her ' all sorted, no worries xxx call tommorow' i went ballistic. took phone to him with text and had it out with him. he said he spoke to her at work because he felt she ought to know what problems it had caused and that she was really worried and didn't want to cause problems, he said about the XXX, ' that's just me, that's what i do' (I have to admit he does tend to be touchy feely and puts X with texs to female friends 0 however i still feel ott)... It was a blazing row, but he was still adamant that nothing is going on, and said he couldn't care less if i check his phone he has nothing to hide, and that he doesn;t understand why i don't trust him and that is the real issue. I was so upset, he had spoken to her about it before me, his wife (which he did apologise for), I just don't know if I am coming or going. Basically after much rowing and his denials, it boils down to, I have to trust him, what can I do, he is saying nothing is going on, he has told her to back off, he is my husband, if i can't trust him what's the point?
On wed I had to go to the doctors about some abnormal bleeding, it looks like i had a miscarriage over xmas. (i didn't know i was pg) I can't imagine things getting any worse...i am sitting here with tears streaming down my face...

I'm so sad for you; the miscarriage thing is just too awful right in the middle of all this. How is your DH acting with you now? I'm hoping he is being very sensitive and kind and sweet. I'm hoping he's not being defensive and bad tempered. He should be going out of his way to make you feel like trusting him. He should be being extra loving at this stage, especially cos of the bleeding. Is he stopping all the texting and phoning this woman; because even if nothing is going on (which to me it sounds like nothing is going on) then he should still have the decency to put a stop to the friendship for the sake of making you feel happier. And he SHOULD NOT be talking to her about you. I really hope he is reassuring you.

thanks peasoup. I really got angry with him for discussing our raltionship with her and told him that it is none of her business and that in future our personal life is exactly that, even if she is the subject of our argument.
he is looking after me, he came straight home from work on wed when i came out of the doctors and has worked from home today and is tommmrow as well. I know he is making an effort, but I still don't feel 100% about it, but i guess i have a mistrusting nature anyway.
I am just in a state of toal shock and sadness at the moment and can't reall make sense of it all.

Oh NM, so sorry .

How long have you two been together? You probably know whether he is the deceitful type or not if you've known him a long time. I feel it is probably just a friendship thing. My DH has a friend (female) who is kind of one of the lads but at the same time a HUGE flirt. DH enjoys flirting with her and I guess if I didn't know her I'd think it was outrageous but actually I've known her longer than he has even and in fact she was the girl who set us up on a blind date anyway, so I feel relaxed about it She just likes to mess around and flirt but she actually has a long term BF and is actually preggers at the mo. But if I didn't know her it would be hard to believe it was innocent. In fact friends who don't know her often say "who was that girl at your party; she spent the whole night flirting with your DH!". I think your DH's friend sounds like a one of the lads type but the texting has to stop; I'm sure her BF wou;d flip if he knew. I hope your DH has the decency to stop it for your sake.

Have you bee able to confide this in anyone else in RL?

Hi Naive - really really sorry about the miscarriage - you have so much on your plate at the moment. Please look after yourself and let DH look after you as well. It sounds like he is doing his best to make it up to you and yes, in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, you have to trust him. He knows he has overstepped the mark so hopefully will avoid doing it again. Take good care of yourself xx

she was texting him last night at 11.30pm.
I couldn't speak to him this morning.
when i'd calmed down i sent him a text saying. I couldn't talk as i can't cope with another row but i thought he'd told her to stop the late night phone calls / texts. She obviously didn't listen, You have no respect for how I feel i need support from you now not sneaking around.
He replied saying that every text he gets late on is going to upset me, so he feels he has to keep them under wraps. I said that that is not true, the truth is he told me he'd asked her to stop calling / texting, that both of them have no respect for hoow i feel and what was so important anyway. He needs to sort out his priorities as it is affecting our relationship.
He said he had messages from various people last night and that if i want he'll switch his phone off after 8pm. I said thats not the point and you know it! and again i want to know why was so important.
he hasn't replied.
I am thinking of calling/ emailing her?
He clearly doesn't care enough to tell her enough is enough. I think i need to make it plain to him, this is threatening our marriage.. I don't know if he really understands the seriousness of the situation.
But in reality it's not a good sign is it?

I'm sorry to hear all this. She is not helping matters at all continuing to text your dh at 11.30 even after he'd spoken to her about it, if he really did.

Sounds like he hasn't told her

I think he is telling you a load of cobblers

havent read all the posts but your last said do dont think he yet understands - i am sure he does not and probally will not want to think about it too much either as the guilt is not easy for him to live with. try and let him make it up to you but try and be kind to yourself too.

(not)naivemum I just want to say I think you are doing really well - and so sorry about the miscarriage, how awful for you. Keep up the pressure and keep trying to get through to him. Have you told him that this kind of thing can end up with divorce and is that what he really wants - not as a threat from you, but to wake him up to what he is doing?

I remember in my situation I later found that the OW was bitching about me to my DP and to mutual friends (who later told me about it... satisfyingly, they also ditched her after it became clear what she was up to). Have faith in yourself and what you are fighting for. I think your DH is at best behaving in deluded and foolish way and it sounds as if the OW is on a mission. It will all come out in the wash and if your DH is lucky he will see what is going on for what it is, sooner rather than later. Keep your strength up - do you have a RL friend or family for support?