Ds11 stolen hundreds from me

[Workinghardeveryday]

I don’t even know where to start.

he actually is a lovely boy, very loving, caring, helpful. My friends always commenting how sweet and kind he is.

I worked out a few months ago he tells lies. Just silly little lies but I explained how it makes me feel, how wrong lying is and how it makes the other person feel etc.

today he went to the park to play, saw someone from school who had a penknife (!) played with it, lied about it.

it’s the lies that bug me, so extravagant.

we talked to him about lying again. He promised he would never do it again.

there has been money going missing for a while. I then asked, ‘have you been steeling mummy’s money?’. He started crying and said yes. Turns out it’s about £400 I think. Spent on PlayStation vouchers, sweets and drinks for him and his friends. Been going on for months.

I am so disappointed and angry.

what would you do?

OP I'm sorry, but I feel like you need to get a grip. You talk in terms of 'having met the real him' and 'can't look at him in the same way'. This is wrong. He's not your husband. He's a child.

He might be 11, but he's still a child. Children are growing, making mistakes, finding out what the boundaries are, pushing limits. It's far far too early to label him. In fact as a parent, you should never label your child.

You do need to get to the bottom of this though. Find out why he did it. Does he understand stealing is wrong, and that if a grown up did it they'd be dealing with the police?
Also, what is the emotional satisfaction he gets from buying these vouchers and spending the money? Could you find a way of getting him the same feeling without stealing? Also, is the game behaviour healthy, does he need stricter rules regarding games?

It's not uncommon for kids to steal. Almost everyone I know has stolen something from the shop when young.
I stole coins from my mums purse. Later as a teenager I shoplifted make up. I never had my own pocket money, so for me it felt like I had some control of my own life. I nearly got caught once, and that scared me so much I never did it again. Now I'm a very honest law abiding adult, so my bad teenage behaviour was not 'the real me'.

Good luck, and hope you'll get to the bottom of it.

PerseverancePays

hear hear

I never stole as a kid... Although massively tempted when the odd fiver was left out on the mantelpiece.

Kids that age... Usually know right for wrong... But their impulse control just isn't developed at that age.

I grew out of the itchiness around wanting to take money by the time I was secondary age.. As my nan used to say.... You KNOW this is not your money!

Also as said - kids don't understand the value of money - how 'much' is £400...??most 11 year olds would see it as a x number of video games or portion of a new xbox.

My mum did something useful.... Whenever I said mum can I have nice - to - have item?

She'd say... That amount costs me so many days /hours to earn.... Or that would take 6 months of your pocket money... How many other things do you want to give up?
This strategy worked with me... Money was from real work,it didn't just come from a hole in the wall.

Wtf!

I can tell by his YouTube history?

Christ almighty. Try doing so actual parenting.

How does a kid even go about stealing £400 from parents. And you didn't even notice?!

I think thats the real issue here and I'd echo what others are saying about being concerned about who he is mixing with or whether there is something deeper going on.

Its not like you've been paying him much attention is it?

Thank you all for your advice.

I really don’t know what to do. I totally get the posts that advise to talk to him and find out what is going on with him. But we already had a close relationship, he’s always been a ‘mummy’s’ boy, we still hold hands walking to school and we talk about his (and his sisters day) every day.

the only change is recently he has started playing with a boy from his class who has autism. I actually encouraged the friendship as ds said the boy had no friends and ds also struggles with friends and tells me he is lonely.

since their friendship he has changed, the final straw was his twin telling me she saw ds at school intimidating a year 4 with his friend.

i sat with ds and my dp and talked at length about how this was not okay. We didn’t shout or anything, just talked to him to find out why. He didn’t know why. I said I was putting my foot down, he was not to spend time with this boy anymore. He said he felt relieved, smothered by their friendship as it was so full on (for instance he would txt my ds about 30 times asking where he is while we had tea).

I may add his friend looks about 15, very well built and tall, has anger issues too I now know. My ds explained to friend next day at school he wanted to play with other people for a change, but he was really nice when he said it. The boy attacked my ds, had him in a headlock.

this is the boy he has been sharing the stolen money with.

so today do I stay calm and ask about his feelings etc? Surely if I am ‘nice’ he just sees me as a pushover and apart fr more chores, he has basically got away with it?

the money in the cabinet was mine and his sisters. She likes to save money, ds spent his months ago

DaftWeeBun is very wise.

Whilst I would treat this seriously please don't lose sight of the fact he's a child - they do stuff like this.

I stole from my parents and was an inveterate liar at that age. I grew out of it. My dh and his friends went on a shop lifting spree at 9. It lasted several weeks, they got tonnes of stuff, and when he was found out he was grounded and had to do jobs for the whole summer. He's been a law abiding honest citizen ever since.

If your ds wasnt fundamentally honest he'd not have 'fessed up to you. You can work with that. And although it wouldn't stop me punishing him, I'd also want to know why he wanted so much money.

@RedToothBrush i think that’s a bit unfair really.

I wfh permanently so always around all the kids. We walk to school everyday so we can chat, I could easily take the car, but I don’t for that reason.

we do things together, dog walks and stuff. Eat as a family every night.

if he has any problems he has always come to me to help.

the money was in a draw, I didn’t check it because I wouldn’t have dreamt anyone would take it.

the YouTube history, yes I was concerned but put it down to his age and he would get bored and grow out of it.

maybe I am a shit parent, I didn’t think I was

X post

Be careful of letting him "blame" his friend for his actions - he needs to take responsibility.
It's fine to be kind to him whilst he works off his debt, just don't go easy on him or forget about it in 2 week cause he moans. Hours of chores each day and no going out will feel like a plenty big punishment if you are consistent and keep him at it over the summer.

I've read your posts more OP.

I wouldn't be selling his xbox.. He seems genuinely upset?

But he would be 'paying' it back.

If it were my child : I'd do a chart where you both sign/initial the decreasing amount left.. So he can see.. 400 to 397 to 394....

Then if he cheerfully does this, doing chores, every so often you can give him a 'day off for good behaviour'.

So.. £400 at 20£ weekly.... So 20 weeks/approx 5.months, to pay back.

So approx 3£ worth of stuff a day...

And start doing a list of all the tasks he needs to do... Give him some choice over which tasks he wants as a punishment.... I wouldn't make them particularly onerous but just be very clear he's doing this, as he did something wrong.

And he needs to learn, it's not about punishment it is about learning.

Please don't shame him... That has really bad consequences for adulthood. Reassure him how much you love him.

But actually? It's much better that this has happened now, than at 15 or 19. It's an opportunity for him to learn.

If he's a creative /reflective lad... You could get him to write stories over what may happen to him, if he pays of his debt, never steals again and goes on to be a happy, healthy adult doing what? One who doesn't steal... And then the alternative story..

He needs to think about his sister... Perhaps chat with him... Get him to reflect what she may be feeling - that her twin brother has taken her money? And what he needs to regain her trust.
Not to shame him, just for him to understand.

When he realised-he needs to apologise to her.

I would say her money needs to be replaced first.

Good luck

RedToothBrush

jesus
let us know when you run parenting seminars please
you’ve clearly got this nailed right ?

I wouldn’t be too worried about playing with a pen knife fgs. He’s not going to turn into Hannibal Lector after chopping up twigs and carving his initials on a tree or whatever. Most of our male grandparents, and a lot of our parents would have regularly carried small knives / pen knives as kids. I had one, and somehow I’ve since resisted the urge to decimate my local town.

His lying about playing with it is concerning, but I assume he knew you’d go full on pearl-clutcher about it, so I’m not entirely surprised. I’d be interested to know how you approached him about it. Did you “accuse” him / launch into War & Peace or ask him calmly?

As PP have said, having him do something meaningful to pay the stolen cash back is appropriate. Does he get pocket money at the moment? Or the opportunity to earn extra? After he’s paid the £400 back I think it would help if he can actually work at something to earn money. Might make him see that it’s not an abstract concept - the cash doesn’t just “grow” in Mum’s magic cash cupboard.

Some of these posts are a bit of an overreaction in their suggesting that he is a budding psychopath.
He does sound unhappy though and I would look at maybe finding a child psychologist or psychotherpist to see if there is anything else going on.
I would really recommend reading the book deprivation and delinquency by Winnicott, it might give you some valuable insight into his behaviour.
Firstly it sounds like he has far too much freedom, you need to monitor his Internet usage much more. If he has been spending money on new playstation games you really should have noticed that.
I would probably ban the playstation for the summer and get him to do some chores each day to pay off the debt and earn it back. I would also use this as an opportunity to spend time with him and also to set up some playdates with some nice children to help him develop some more suitable friendships.

If he has a fascination with guns and knives, are you monitoring which games he's playing in PlayStation? A lot of those games are super violent and aren't suitable for an 11 year old.

Agreed with PPs, you need a 'debt chart' with specific tasks which have a value. Every time one is done to a good standard, he's chipped away at his debt. And also, no PlayStation! I think therapy/counselling is massively important too. He could be showing narcissistic/sociopathic tendencies, and this needs intervention now.

You've said previously that he lies all the time. He's the mummy's boy who has mummy wrapped around his little finger, and has successfully dug himself out of another situation yet again.

From reading the very first post, I thought there's no way the boy can talk his way out of this one. If he's like this at 11, I can only imagine what sort of druggie thug he'll end up being like at 16.

I'd have come down on him like a ton of bricks - getting rid of the PlayStation, no TV, no sweets, no birthday/Christmas presents, no friends over to stay for a year. But from the latest posts, I see mummy's boy has blagged himself out of it yet again. No wonder he has been trained into being a serial liar

@Workinghardeveryday You don't have to be 'nice'. He has stolen money and deserves strictness and consequences.

But, to prevent it from happening again, and for him to learn from it, you need to find out why it happened. Listen with empathy and understanding. Those are conversations that should be had separately from the 'punishment time'. For me it would during bedtime conversations.

My Dc has a friend that gets him into trouble sometimes. We can't always choose who they hang out with, but somehow have to try and reinforce their own moral compass and self esteem that they can say No when asked to join into some wrongdoing.

I would be mostly concerned about where that money had actually gone. It's not impossible that he's pissed it away on PS purchases and sweets, but you need to rule out exploitation by older teens and/or drugs.

@Matlab Wow! I feel sorry for your kids if you have any. No sweets, birthday or Christmas presents or friends? Parenting with hatred comes to mind..

I haven’t seen or spoken to him since I found out, so he has hardly got away with it has he.

I don’t know what to do yet. Dp put him to bed, he usually comes down for a cuddle before bed but I said to tell him I didn’t want one as upset with him

No, you’re not a shit parent it does sound as if his friend isn’t good for him. Your update leads me to think he’s been taking the money to keep this friend on his side,
Hes either been openly coerced into taking it or subconsciously taken it to keep the friend from doing to him what he’s seen him doing to others.
I echo a pp in keeping up with the punishment, don’t relent after couple of weeks. He needs to do three hours a day of chores for example, maybe two hours in the morning and a hour after tea. Work it on an hourly min wage basis, keep a visible chart so both of you see his progress.
But, remember he’s still a child and possibly in a situation where he was out of his depth and didn’t have the maturity to cope with it. Perhaps he wanted out of the friendship but didn’t want to let you own, you asked him to do a kind thing and befriend this other boy and he did but the friendship wasn’t what he thought it would be.

My older brother was very similar. Always told lies, stole money often. My parents used to tell him off, but he never faced any real consequences. He turned into a really horrible man. I'd sell his play station to replace his sisters money. If he wants another play station, he has to work for it. He'll be busy doing errands, jobs around the house. Yes it will take him a long time, but combined with birthday/Christmas money it's possible. Make him learn from the consequences.

I'm saddened by people who have said things like 'I wouldn't be able to look at my son the same again'. He's only 11 and while his behaviour obviously needs dealing with, he's still a young child finding his way.

It sounds to me like your son IS a lovely boy but has found himself heavily influenced by this friend. The search history of weapons is worrying but could also be natural curiosity. Are you able to put a block on your internet so he can not search for anything regarding weapons (same way porn can be blocked)?

I think your son needs to know he's forgiven for the stealing, otherwise it's going to lead him to a shame spiral where he feels he's already bad so he might as well live up to that reputation. I think the chores suggested are definitely a good way to 'earn' back the money but don't beat him over the head with your disappointment, turn it into a good thing, that you're proud of him for being honest when confronted and he's earning back your trust.

I know I may be a bit softer than others here but I think 11 is so young - he needs to know that your love is unconditional, even when he fucks up.

Please cuddle him. He's a child - he shouldn't feel unloved just because you're angry at him.

I think you sound like a great mum because you're engaged with your child. I've name changed for this but have some experience in this area. If I had to say the one difference between kidd that go wrong and kids that go right, it's how much effort the parents actually put in. The kids that go wrong often do have worried parents, but the parents don't know how to put the work in - they yell and hand out punishments or try to minimise but don't deal with the problem, often the parents can barely cope with their own lives. The kids that do well have parents who put the effort in- they replace screen time with activities, they talk to their children, they make sure that parental controls are in place to prevent youtube access and explain to the children exactly why, they take a whole day out to do stuff that the child enjoys together and spend that time really listening and taking the time to understand what went wrong. I think you sound like you're in the latter category, so keep just doing what you're doing.

Sorry I jumped the gun then. But it sounded from your latest posts that he had managed to manipulate you again. I think this is the line in the sand where he now has to face the consequences

Is he upset because he feels guilty about stealing the money and lying or I she upset because he has been found out? I suspect the latter given all the upset and promises about never lying again that have gone before.

if he were mine he would absolutely be paying back the money via chores and I'd take away the power cable for his PlayStation.

I would also look to dial back what is clearly not a good friendship for either side. Are they going to the same secondary school?