Female Dating Strategy?

[deskdreams]

Has anyone looked at this website / forum / podcast? Its sort of like a female answer to red pill, pick up artist, misogyny. Its certainly seen as quite a toxic online space and the langauge about men is quite grim but at the same time after having a read and listen to what they say I think their is pertient information. I've been unlucky enough to encounter pua and players who pretty ruthlessly target women in dating apps looking for easy sex and they will say and so pretty much anything to get it and will clearly even target women they don't even like much if they think she is likely to put out or they have techniques about how to isolate women and break her so that the women will be submissive to them.

I think its potentially useful to have a guide for inexperienced women (like myself) that helps alert them to this sort of thing although I also did find the misandry and the way they evaluate men to be quite harsh. I did think it was a useful perspective though even if I wouldn't want to take it all on board.

Anyone else looked into it?

The extremity of reaction to any kind of mildly skeptical language in this thread gives pause.

JustKitten has given a really excellent example of the type of person FDS attracts, which is helpful for Mumsnetters who weren’t familiar with the sub before it was banned.

It hasn't been banned, they left reddit. It was the only exclusively female sub left but the environment was difficult.

I started out being mildly interested in this website / forum, but having read the posts of some of its defenders, I'm going to give it a miss.

Yep, made me realise no man is far preferable to a bad man

Indeed. I think the fury and hyperbole is a big red flag.

As is any kind of rules about what make men good and bad. It's not that simple.

I don't know whether reality's excellent thread is still pinned at the top of this board but that should be the litmus paper for relationships. Not setting up weird test tasks for men to fail. And then getting really angry and picking fights over the small stuff rather than looking at the big picture.

I absolutely agree that many women settle for less than ideal, often because our biological clocks are ticking loudly or because single women are pitied in our society. But this isn't about empowering women to be happy being single. It's literally about finding a bloke.

It's all a bit antediluvian.

I think it's quite interesting. Similar to Why Men Like Bitches. It's fine - I don't know anything about sugar babies, but it's mostly just about Not Settling. Being High Value etc. It's a bit extreme in places, but the general gist is fine I think. Too many women rearrange their whole lives to please a man, give up their independence and settle for mean/boring/selfish/lazy men.

@supercali77 before you made you’re uncalled for slander of a mod without proof I can see why you’d kinda think that about big rings and such. But it shows you weren’t on for long.

it was about not getting strung along, not being used, not being put down. Feeling ones own value can manifest in many ways but it’s always been about not feeding into the “settle for less” BS and women having high expectations doesn’t hurt anyone. Guess they will be single if a man won’t measure up.

oh well.

better than dreaming and wanting more, only to do all the housework, childcare, and work a job for a man who just farts up the bed and takes you for granted.

Pick me’s…. Sigh…..

Im a good example because I don’t take bad treatment any longer and I actively try to get younger women to see that they are valuable and worthy of their own standards…..

JustKittenAround, would you say that being a member of FDS has made you enjoy life more? Has it brought happiness into your life? As you seem rather frustrated and combative on here.

I have unfortunately had to learn everything that FDS tries to teach the hard way. I learned it and am happier with all the trappings of my best life.

i found FDS and was active because I don’t want anyone else to learn the hard way like me. The crap thing is I’m lucky! I learned somehow and have the life to back it up, but it’s actually luck. Many women will let men downgrade their expectations and Lee h their self worth while the chorus of pick me’s celebrate.

I am mad. Yes. I’m mad because women who are encouraged to adhere to their own standards without hurting or manipulating anyone else are equated to shitty PUA’s and intel’s.

loving yourself and embracing your own value doesn’t make a woman an incel type. It’s sexist as hell to say that.

our whole lives are pushed to cater to misogyny at the detriment to ourselves and I’m mad and I won’t pretend not to be. I want better for women. I also want to know why women having their own standards is so damn upsetting to everyone? It’s crazy.

So yes, I’ve the man, the money, the love, the ability to be alone and ALSO the memory of the times I settled or let myself be taken advantage of. I’ve never hurt or used anyone, but I’ve definitely told men to kick rocks if they weren’t treating me right.

Typos sorry. I’m in SE Asia on holiday and my devices are buggy

@JustKittenAround I've been on there 3 years or more. I didnt say it was just about that, my comment was in reference to earlier comments about materialism. And my point was, there are different types of people on there some are of that bent. No group on reddit or elsewhere is all of the same mind. There are also wgtow, femcel, rad fem, tradwives etc on there. So you could easily go on, see a few posts and get the idea it was all about X. The only real way to understand the overarching message was to read the faq.

Like most women on there, I took what was appropriate to me..im not young and looking to form a family with a man. I was however a woman whod lived with someone who gaslighted, manipulated and finally fleeced me so it became a place where I could understand what led me to allow that. I also loved the fact that they are not about victim mentality

I, just done with baseless accusations about mods …. Who I don’t even know. Just weird to discredit someone without a shred of proof.

reddit get all sorts but if you read the about and the rules, it’s straightforward and obviously not about manipulation or negging. It’s about women not playing into the BS which ruffles many feathers.

*I’m

typos here are crazy because my devices run too hot in this climate. My apologies

Why would it be discrediting to say a mod may have worked as a sugar baby? One of the podcast hosts did. I dont think that should have any impact on a womans credibility, maybe you do.

@JustKittenAround Great post!

Also the more women raise their collective standards about what is acceptable behaviour the better. For me it isn't about money, engagement rings or living a luxury lifestyle on some guys buck its about not being messed about, used or made to fit a mans frame. I'm fine with some degree of compromise and service to each other in an equitable relationship but not with being left to do it all or at least the majority of it.

Prior to FDS I would often feel like I was way more invested and into the guys I was seeing or talking to online and irl but since I've been investing less and not just acting like that, actually not investing my emotions and future dreams in a man I haven't for want of a better word vetted for suitability. Now that I do hold back on that it does feel like men, even those who previously treated me like second choice are now actively chasing me and showing me better treatment. Not that I am still interested in any of them but it is interesting to see it play out.

Now that I do hold back on that it does feel like men, even those who previously treated me like second choice are now actively chasing me and showing me better treatment. Not that I am still interested in any of them but it is interesting to see it play out.

Are you trying to have a relationship or win a game?

@Clymene No its not about it being a game but in the past when I just wanted "the guy" to like me before I had even thought about if I actually liked him, if his life, goals, and actions were something that would be a good fit for my life. Often then there would be this dynamic where the guy knew he had me on the line and so he would sort of keep me dangling while keeping his own options open. I'm not suggesting he was doing any of that on purpose but that was the dynamic and its why chasing men in general (exceptions my exist) doesn't work.

I have no interest in the men I had that dynamic with because I understand now that their interest in me just wasn't strong enough for them to make me a priority. However they still enjoyed keeping me around and on the back burner and once I took myself out of that position they then made more effort to get me back, but I'm wise to it now. Like I say I'm not interested in pursuing those guys anymore but it has been interesting to see how when I shifted my own boundaries the whole dynamic of those relationships changed to one where they chased me.

So its not a game but more about being able to read a situation better and discounting men who are happy to use me and waste my time.

Oh boy do I hear you about that "wanting the man to like me before I even knew if we were a good fit" kind of thing.... it's really easy to fall into that trap of being grateful for the validation of a man's attention, and I did that for many years too! It can take a while to learn that some people's attention isn't adding anything good to your life, and might even be detracting from it!

If FDS is what works for some women in learning that, I can see it has value to them. I personally found other ways of approaching that same goal--people are different and the same approach won't work for everyone. I'm not interested in being financially supported by a man, or in financially supporting him either, but that's my preference and I'm fortunate enough to be able to have that as a standard for myself.

I do think it's a shame that FDS seems to focus a lot of energy on labelling and running down other women as "pick mes" or whatever. It shouldn't be necessary to tear down other women in order to build oneself up. But educating each other about the kind of shitty behaviour that some men engage in, and building up women's self-esteem so they know not to accept that shitty behaviour any longer, is a great goal.

@CousinKrispy I'm not really about just wanting to marry a rich man who can give me a life of luxuary and I don't really think that is what FDS is really about either but I haven't read the full sub and I know some women are like "secure the bag" and they want a rich man or sugar daddy.

What I take from it and from the podcast is more that its about finding a man who adds value to your life in someway as opposed to taking away from it. Obviously the people we love may fall sick or lose their employment and I don't think that means we should be abandoning them but when you are looking to start a relationship just be aware is this man in serious debt, does he have any major issues such as addiction, criminal convictions, porn sickness, laziness, does he work, does he have a vision for his future etc or does he just drift.

They also encourage women to be High Value and that doesn't mean to be super hot it just means, have your own money, your own life, your own friends, they do encourage you to be fit and healthy but they don't advocate specific beauty standards because being beautiful won't stop you getting treated like shit by a man if thats who he is.

I agree its sort of a mixed bag but overall its a great resource for women. Yeah that who just wanting the validation of a mans attention is so common in girls, Hadley Freeman wrote a section on that in her Be Awesome book which I also found very helpful.

Name changed.

Id never heard of it. And I’m quite old - 50s. On the basis of this thread and the fact that I think my relationship (which I though was going to help bring me peace but didn’t) is suddenly over, I had a nose at this.

I understand the Reddit was not representative and has now been abandoned. I’ve been listening to the podcasts and have found them really helpful in keeping me strong. Ok, some of it is not for me - I’m not into the HVM thing in terms of money etc.; they’re also much younger. However, I’ve been trying to think of it in the broadest terms… that low value is something more than that… do they bring me peace, or add to my trauma/distress/history. Some of it is quite extreme (and I say that as a radical feminist who has wished i was a lesbian for most of my life) and I can imagine if men heard it they’d think it was dreadfully sexist. But it’s made me laugh (some is tongue in cheek), made me hopeful (their stance on porn is brilliant and so refreshing from younger women), and I love that they’re not victimising women. I’m not sure I’d be listening if I wasn’t in the early stages of working out whether my relationship is over, but if you’re in a similar situation, I would recommend the podcast. And I can’t believe I am saying that, it didn’t look like something I would like - from its title, the age demographic or it’s general write ups!

The way is was brought up without ANY evidence is the point.

actual sources please? Not I think I might have ‘ possible maybe heard a whisper from a seashell” type of bs

Plus when it comes to materialism as an argument it does matter.

Let us be intellectually honest. It has been said FDS spreads among other things materialism. When that has been challenged unsubstantiated claims about a mod being a sugar baby (active is the implication as well) we’re sloppily thrown.

When challenged on this baseless accusation, no proof was ever tendered, just more misconceptions about FDS with heaps od Bas.

So. Either evidence both of FDS being about materialism and a mod actively being a sugar baby or GTFO.

Anyone making these points needs to back them up or go touch grass. Every time I see a reply I’ll bring it back to those two points. If you can’t back up the BS spouting it might be time to gather it all up and concede the Big L.

1. Where in FDS does it preach materialism, manipulation, or anything that is detrimental?
2. Name your sources and proof that a mod is a sugar baby? (You brought it up not me, it’s up to you also to say why it’s important)

AGAIN

this is you above.

who is saying what now?

YOU are the one putting down people and YOU are the one who isn’t getting the neurons firing enough in that ole noggin’ to realize you made the accusations and you made the detrimental comments.

So tell us @supercali77 why did you say these detrimental comments that were also unsubstantiated?

Its on YOU. YOU made them.