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Original poster

I think friend is ridiculous, she thinks I'm a mug: who is right?

138 replies

napalmbeth · 11/05/2022 12:43

My boyfriend of 3.5 years has an old female friend who is an ex stripper/burlesque dancer. She's in a settled relationship with someone and hasn't done it for several years. My boyfriend and I don't live together but are in a stable, happy relationship and I trust him as he's never given me any reason not to. I have a child (not his child) if relevant.

He's known this woman for 15+ years and used to hang out with her/go clubbing with her way back when. He keeps in touch with her and others in her circle and we (together) have gone out with her and her partner maybe 3-4 times since we've been together. I get on well with this woman. To my nearly certain knowledge he hasn't met her once without my being there in the time we've been together.

We are going to visit this woman's home town soon and meeting various people we know who live there, including this friend, for a drink. Both of us and her and her partner.

I relayed this casually in conversation to a (female) friend of mine. She said I was being a "mug" and she wouldn't tolerate her partner hanging out with a former stripper. I said that was ridiculous, she said I was being childish and a "cool wife" and should have better boundaries and should put my foot down. I haven't done as I don't see any reason to and she's recently asked me what I play to do about it.

Am I being naïve? I think the fact of someone having historically been a stripper doesn't mean they are inherently more likely to cheat with my partner or he with her? My partner has a number of female friends who I trust and like, why should this woman be singled out on the basis of something she did for money years ago?

OP posts:
TheCatterall · 11/05/2022 15:22

Some of my burlesque friends are the biggest loudest feminists out there.

They aren’t condescending twats who would judge someone based on something they did in their past or had no impact on external relationships.

As a desperate teenage mum stuck at home and very depressed I worked on a sex telephone line for two months nearly 30 years ago. Does that shape who I am now? Does it matter? No.

Silly friend. almost feel sorry for her in her closed off little world.

KettrickenSmiled · 11/05/2022 15:24

But sometimes she makes me feel as if having a boyfriend is a needless indulgence and I should really have sworn off having another relationship.

Aha - so here we have it.
She liked you being her single friend. She doesn't like you having a b/f.

It's not necessarily consciously malicious. But kinda hard to 'unsee', once you have seen it. She's trying to patronise you back into your box OP - where you are all grateful for her worldly advice & should always check your life choices with her in case you act foolhardily without the benefit of her superior sagacity.
See PP's remark about "undermining".

Also - WTF does she want you to so - "put your foot down" ie act like a crazy controlling bitch & "forbid" b/f from seeing his old friend? Nasty. If she's that controlling with her own DH, he should LTB ...

Stravaig · 11/05/2022 15:25

napalmbeth · 11/05/2022 15:05

What do you mean?

Show quote history

Your friend is the one who was around when you got into and throughout your abusive marriage. Sometimes an abusive relationship is kept in place by family and friends who treat it as normal and fine. Did she spot the abuse, warn you off marrying, help you leave as soon as possible? Or was she oblivious, minimising and normalising? From the outside, because she knew you throughout, her judgement and intentions are more worth questioning than those of your boyfriend and his friend.

Rubyroseyposey · 11/05/2022 15:39

Your friend has issues. Its also super rude to imply the only thing this woman has going for her is an old job 🙄

DonnyBurrito · 11/05/2022 15:49

How dare she talk about feminism whilst 'slut shaming' another woman!?

Original poster
napalmbeth · 11/05/2022 15:52

Aha - so here we have it.
She liked you being her single friend. She doesn't like you having a b/f.

Possibly. She usually requests that we see each other alone (ie with our kids and without him). But is perfectly happy for her husband to come along.

I don't think she dislikes my boyfriend (or she hasn't said she does) but she seems to feel that he hasn't yet earned his place in our ecosystem.

I do kind of get it. I have a child from a previous marriage and she thinks caution is the order the day, when bringing a new partner into the set-up. As do I. But I've been very cautious: we don't live together and have no short-term plans to, I have taken it extremely slowly in introducing him to my DD and now he and my DD have a good relationship. We've been together 3 and a half years. I think she's fairly extreme about it and I also think she forgets that she is looking at this from the security of a 20 year marriage and two biological children from that marriage. It's an enviable and good position but not everyone has this luxury and the fact that they don't should disqualify them from having a love life in perpetuity.

OP posts:
Original poster
napalmbeth · 11/05/2022 15:55

@Stravaig

Your friend is the one who was around when you got into and throughout your abusive marriage. Sometimes an abusive relationship is kept in place by family and friends who treat it as normal and fine.

To be fair my friend was no fan of my ex-husband and was relieved when I left him.

I think she is just cautious and conservative about the set-up and sees things from the relatively privileged position of someone whose marriage intact with two happy children and who hasn't been faced with the difficulty of managing a new relationship when there is a child from a previous marriage. I don't think she's being vindictive, she just doesn't get it.

OP posts:
minou123 · 11/05/2022 16:01

I don't think you should be a mug or a cool wife just because you're in the honeymoon period and sacrifice your boundaries and I would personally put my foot down in this situation but I'm a cynical old married lady".

I think she's a mumsnetter 😁

If she doesn't want women, who used to be strippers, as her friend, that's OK. For her.
She doesn't get to dictate or shame you when you decide differently.

KittyWithoutAName · 11/05/2022 16:02

I'd hate it but then I can admit I'm incredibly insecure and that's the reason.

billy1966 · 11/05/2022 16:04

Chica10 · 11/05/2022 14:20

100% right! Your friend should not be disrespecting your partner’s friendships. Stand up for them and tell her to back off.

Show quote history

This.

I definitely think she wants you back in your box, single and always available.

She really doesn't sound particularly nice.

jammyrose · 11/05/2022 16:07

YANBU, friend is being ridiculous.

Eastlyne · 11/05/2022 16:10

Hmm despite the weird implied generalisations about SAHMs in your post OP (I am one and don't think it makes me more narrow-minded or paranoid) I agree with you, no matter what you think about stripping/burlesque & whether it's feminist or not, it's a long way from having a political opinion on that to making moral judgements and presumptions about the characters of individual people who do that work. & the idea it's something you need to be worried about re your BF is just bizarre.

PolynesianParadise · 11/05/2022 16:12

Your friend is being small-minded and ridiculous

prettybird · 11/05/2022 16:13

YANBU.

I think in response to ".....I don't think you should be a mug or a cool wife just because you're in the honeymoon period and sacrifice your boundaries and I would personally put my foot down in this situation but I'm a cynical old married lady"

....you should reply along the lines of, "I am asserting my boundaries - but with you. We've discussed this, I'm not concerned. The matter is closed. Don't raise it again."

Original poster
napalmbeth · 11/05/2022 16:32

Eastlyne · 11/05/2022 16:10

Hmm despite the weird implied generalisations about SAHMs in your post OP (I am one and don't think it makes me more narrow-minded or paranoid) I agree with you, no matter what you think about stripping/burlesque & whether it's feminist or not, it's a long way from having a political opinion on that to making moral judgements and presumptions about the characters of individual people who do that work. & the idea it's something you need to be worried about re your BF is just bizarre.

Sorry, where did I say SAHMs were narrow minded and paranoid?

The SAHM point is completely irrelevant to this and I think frankly the paranoia is on your side. I mentioned that she's a SAHM as part of a number of differences in our lifestyles but its absolutely not relevant to this situation.

The material point here is that she is still with the man she had children with and I'm not. And she is apprehensive of the potential for me to put the needs of any man new to the family over my child. Which I respect as I think that's an important priority, although I happen to think she's taking it to extremes here.

I am just observing that when you remain with the father of your biological children you don't have to give any consideration to these risks. I do and try to manage them with great care and caution. But I don't believe these should mean that I have no right to having a relationship.

It's got nothing to do with being a SAHM though.

OP posts:
Shooshooboo · 11/05/2022 16:53

All the strippers and sexlines and camcorder “feminists” on MN!!! Really, they wanted more money, let’s be honest. And those facilitating threesomes and other creepy sexual practices of men ‘cos they are “liberated” girlfriends just follows on….

PS. Also - lots of poorer women in very difficult situations don’t resort to joining the sex trade of women. Each to their own, but the sanctimoniousness and feminist excuses on here are cringey.

Shooshooboo · 11/05/2022 16:56

Remember there are lots of vacuous women in MN that go along with the liberal, cool herd, or are only concerned with their specific interests - oblivious to the wider damage inflicted.

FrangipaniBlue · 11/05/2022 17:05

I think your friend might have arrived OPHmm

CraftLands · 11/05/2022 17:14

The only boyfriend I had who liked burlesque (short-term thank God) was a horrible sexual deviant. Just saying. I’m sure strippers can be nice people but let’s face it they’re doing it for the money. The only one I knew - and she was a nice girl - was simply too lazy to get a lower paid job. Plus she had to support her user boyfriend. How liberated is that!

To my mind belly-dancing is a genuine art form though, amazing to see!

CraftLands · 11/05/2022 17:15

The only boyfriend I had who liked burlesque (short-term thank God) was a horrible sexual deviant. Just saying. I’m sure strippers can be nice people but let’s face it they’re doing it for the money. The only one I knew - and she was a nice girl - was simply too lazy to get a lower paid job. Plus she had to support her user boyfriend. How liberated is that!

To my mind belly-dancing is a genuine art form though, amazing to see!

Original poster
napalmbeth · 11/05/2022 17:15

@CraftLands

But my boyfriend doesn't "like burlesque". He just has a friend who used to do it.

OP posts:
madasawethen · 11/05/2022 17:22

Your friend is being ridiculous.
I'd refrain from mentioning your DPs friend is an ex stripper in the future.

I was one 40 years ago. I don't mention it as I don't think anyone would believe me.

Triffid1 · 11/05/2022 17:24

The "cool wife" comment suggests that she thinks any man who has a relationship with a woman is suspect. In her head this is exacerbated by the fact that the woman in question used to be a stripper. On this, she's being ridiculous. But it's a common issue.

On the feminist issue re stripping, sure, I think a lot of feminists certainly do not see stripping as "empowering". But where she's gone off piste somewhat is that feminists who worry that any kind of sex work is bad for woman/anti-feminist see these women as victims of one sort or another. In which case, blaming her for stripping, and looking down on her as a result, is absolutely 100% anti-feminist.

I understand how it can be tricky with a long term friend who you do love and rely on etc and then one day you realise that on certain things you have completely conflicting views. I don't think it's friendship-ending but I do think you should shut her down calmly but firmly if it comes up again and then perhaps agree to disagree on this one long term.

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 11/05/2022 17:27

napalmbeth · 11/05/2022 12:43

My boyfriend of 3.5 years has an old female friend who is an ex stripper/burlesque dancer. She's in a settled relationship with someone and hasn't done it for several years. My boyfriend and I don't live together but are in a stable, happy relationship and I trust him as he's never given me any reason not to. I have a child (not his child) if relevant.

He's known this woman for 15+ years and used to hang out with her/go clubbing with her way back when. He keeps in touch with her and others in her circle and we (together) have gone out with her and her partner maybe 3-4 times since we've been together. I get on well with this woman. To my nearly certain knowledge he hasn't met her once without my being there in the time we've been together.

We are going to visit this woman's home town soon and meeting various people we know who live there, including this friend, for a drink. Both of us and her and her partner.

I relayed this casually in conversation to a (female) friend of mine. She said I was being a "mug" and she wouldn't tolerate her partner hanging out with a former stripper. I said that was ridiculous, she said I was being childish and a "cool wife" and should have better boundaries and should put my foot down. I haven't done as I don't see any reason to and she's recently asked me what I play to do about it.

Am I being naïve? I think the fact of someone having historically been a stripper doesn't mean they are inherently more likely to cheat with my partner or he with her? My partner has a number of female friends who I trust and like, why should this woman be singled out on the basis of something she did for money years ago?

I love it when people say they wont tolerate and put their foot down. Entertaining that they are so entitled.

LowlandLucky · 11/05/2022 17:32

Your friend has issue's